Anti-India campaign gains ground in US

[W.G.Ewald]

USA has not much to offer India that other countries could offer.

Pro Israeli lobby is the one who are mostly neo-cons, am I correct?

Insofar as "neocon" is an antisemitic political epithet, you are correct.

Cf. "dirty Jew"

 

[KS]

......India has zero leverage over Pakistan........

.....The US is not engaged with Pak to save India - it is doing it for its own interests.....

Completely agreed.

and I can bet you if things blow up between India and Pak...the first person both sides are going to call is guess who ??

Pakistan will definitely call. Not so sure about India.

 

[Mad Indian]

Really, drone attacks mean nothing ?? - what do you think all these Jihadi groups will be doing if they controlled the whole area bordering Afghanistan - sipping tea ? The Drone attacks have turned some of these guys against even the Pak Army. Count the number of attacks against the Pak Army/navy by these guys in the last 2 years alone.

You guys all have a difficult time admitting one very simple fact - India cant do squat to Pak, even if it knows where their terror camps are located, and where their worst ISI raghead Jihadis are located. India cannot take them out with covert Ops, or drones, or direct military strikes. Even if they know Dawood's address for years - they still have no ability to take him out. India has zero leverage over Pakistan.

The US on the other hand is different - no threat of nuclear attack is going to stop the US from going after who it wants to go after.
The US is the only country that can apply pressure on Pakistan, and I can bet you if things blow up between India and Pak...the first person both sides are going to call is guess who ??

The US is not engaged with Pak to save India - it is doing it for its own interests. But at least stop whining about it.

this is exactlly your country's problem....

You admit Porki army has jihadi links yet you supply F16 do them....

You admit ISI is the reason these jihadis are existing yet you give 2.4bn$ each year as aid to Porkis, majority of which goes back to ISI...

Leave iran now, what were you doing in the 90s when they had no nuke... You were cuddling the Saudis who are more violent and stupid than the Iranians.... while at the same time you hated Iran's guts..... Iran has given much more freedom to its inhabitants than Saudis.... where did your Democratic and freedom ideals go then....???

what were you doing in 1989 During Tiannamene square incident in China------ You were busy cuddling them further, making them your largest trade partner because, you too had a common threat USSR....

Now you want to use us for containing chinese..... really " you want to USE us and yet you claim that India is you ally(WTF)????" What you thought we were same as the whore you so comfortably sleep with and kick aside everyday(Porkistan)....

When you yourselves have thousands of double standards, How can India trust you....????

 

[Mad Indian]

The US is not engaged with Pak to save India - it is doing it for its own interests. But at least stop whining about it.

And we are not engaged in Iran for your whims and whiffs... we are engaged for our own national priorities....
So Stop telling us what to do...

 

[asianobserve]

Not so sure about India.

Oh I'm 100% sure India will call. India will call to ask White House to apply all pressures to reign in Pakistan and to caution China...

 

[Yusuf]

Matt,

Drone attacks may have killed 100s of terrorists t ht they are those who kill American soldiers not Indian so it really does not effect India. It has not made any difference to terrorism against India as the "franchise" model is very well in place. Number of terror attacks have happened while US prices have been at the throat of Pakis as you called it.

After 26/11, who called who? I think it was US which was scared of Indian attack on Pak in retaliation and advising caution.


Guess who ran to Washington when the heat was on in Kargil while they were the aggressors?

 

[asianobserve]

@ Yusuf

I don't know what made your view change on the matter, but if my memory serves me right you claimed on earlier posts that the US mission in Afghanistan is beneficial to India. Your change of mind is maybe because of the tense rethoric on India's position in Iran, which frankly does not help the situation. But only the most biased Indian nationalist will claim that the AfPak NATO ops are not benefiting India. Nobody can really deny the fact that right now the ISI is busy plotting and countering American and Afghan ops in the region to preserve and maintain their anti-Indian proxies and sanctuaries. Otherwise the ISI and their proxies will not only have practically the whole of Afghanistan as a training ground and safe haven but they will also be uninterrupted in their sabotage ops against India. But of course it is also true that the Americans are not doing what they're doing to "help" India, they're doing it for themselves. But this is one situation where there's a covergence of interest.

 

[asianobserve]

After 26/11, who called who? I think it was US which was scared of Indian attack on Pak in retaliation and advising caution.

Would you rather that India attacked Pakistan after 26/11? I think if it happened I'll be buying Indian and Pakistan nuke glass bowls for radioactive souvenirs... As things stand now Pakistan has practically nothing to lose compared to India and would be too happy to pull you down to their level.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

A few people here and there don't add up to much, and a few people shouting again don't frame the policies of the USA. USA works a lot differently and India has a thorough grasp and hold on things.

Post Bush, the US has had a president who was trying his best to woo the chinese, its another thing that the chinese had other ideas, and this president had then given a feeling that US had all but abandoned India, something that was talked about well past the better half of 2010, India and Indians certainly felt cheated. One might term Obama as the biggest and possibly a much needed leveler to the otherwise high on steroids Indo-US relations, good that the indian expectations now remain grounded, unlike in '09 when the behavior of the current administration came across as very rude, if not more, and that was the time, MMS was going ahead full throttle on the Indo-US relations, trying to woo the Obama administration expecting a relationship similar to what had been built under Bush.

Let us go a little further back, and the role played by the US, and UK along with Pakistan in Kashmir is well documented, and by every means hugely condemnable and deplorable for an Indian, much on lines what one has seen recently in the arab streets, just to refresh the memories.

More recently, an incident that relates to last year, they stared issuing travel advisories against India, and all the four, US-UK-Canada-Australia, ganged up, and it was done with a purpose. The MEA took up the matter with Australia, and they quickly backed off.

These are our "friends" we desperately long for!

Point being, let us say the worst happens, so? We have seen their ugliest side when the going was terrible for us, and every effort was then was being made to break apart India, and not so friendly side even when we pushed for very good relations with them. Let us move ahead, and set aside our insecurities. Diplomacy isn't conducted in an insecure atmosphere, be confident about who you are and about your abilities, deal according, and we will end up a lot better. What a bunch of people shout shouldn't even have been up for discussion here, but then as I pointed out, there is definite concerted effort to build the pressure to make us "fall in line", and in all this, the media is just playing its part, and no more.

I am just interested in taking a note on the extent they can push us, and the means used to do the same, which then should be taken as a lesson by the MEA officials, and if their conduct is anything to go by, they indeed have their lessons well learnt.

 

[Yusuf]

@ Yusuf

I don't know what mind your view change on the matter, but if my memory serves me right you claimed on earlier posts that the US mission in Afghanistan is beneficial to India. Your change of mind is maybe because of the tense rethoric on India's position in Iran, which frankly odes not help the situation. But only the most biased Indian nationalist will claim that the AfPak NATO ops are not benefiting India. Nobody can really deny the fact that right now the ISI is busy plotting and countering American and Afghan ops in the region to preserve and maintain their anti-Indian proxies and sanctuaries. Otherwise the ISI and their proxies will not only have practically the whole of Afghanistan as a training ground and safe haven but they will also be uninterrupted in their sabotage ops against India. But of course it is also true that the Americans are not doing what they're doing to "help" India, they're doing it for themselves. But this is one situation where there's a covergence of interest.

My thoughts are firmly in place and same. I still remain Pro US as it suits India in the long run (my view).

US presence in Astan is beneficial as it keeps Taliban out from there which means India can pursue its interests there.
I only have Indian interests in mind nothing else. I would go against the US if in my opinion it is not in Indian interests.

 

[Yusuf]

Would you rather that India attacked Pakistan after 26/11? I think if it happened I'll be buying Indian and Pakistan nuke glass bowls for radioactive souvenirs... As things stand now Pakistan has practically nothing to lose compared to India and would be too happy to pull you down to their level.

Cold start allows India to wage war within the threshold of Pak nukes. It does not give then a reason to go nuke. It has given them sleepless nights.

 

[asianobserve]

Cold start allows India to wage war within the threshold of Pak nukes. It does not give then a reason to go nuke. It has given them sleepless nights.

That may be too theoretical. Believe me hot start or cold start, a coordinated Indian military incursion into Pakistan is not going to be taken lightly by them. How long do you think will Pakistan need to lunch a nuclear weapon into Indian staging/known positions (tactical use of nukes)? How long before India will retaliate in case of a nuclear explosion on Indian soil? You think all these neat theoretical calculations can stop hotheads from annihilating each other?

 

[Yusuf]

That may be too theoretical. Believe me hot start or cold start, a coordinated Indian military incursion into Pakistan is not going to be taken lightly by them. How long do you think will Pakistan need to lunch a nuclear weapon into Indian staging/known positions (tactical use of nukes)? How long before India will retaliate in case of a nuclear explosion on Indian soil? You think all these neat theoretical calculations can stop hotheads from annihilating each other?

The question is what is more important? I am of the view that if pakis go nuke I means they have lost the war based on their doctrine. India does not even have to reply in kind and nuke it back just for the sake of it.

If India can split Pak, Baloch, Sindh, Pakhtun who will go their own way nd not be anti India and we then crush the Punjabis, occupy them and state of Pakistsn ceases to exists, then no we don't have to glass Pak even in the event of they nuking us.

 

[Ray]

Pakistan is splitting and will split if the indications are to stay.

The Pakistani Punjabis are the best friends of India since their dominating attitude and taking all the goodies of other for their own State is what is causing the discontent.

There is no reason to crush the Pakistani Punjabis since they will be floundering as they would be landlocked all the way!

 

[asianobserve]

The question is what is more important? I am of the view that if pakis go nuke I means they have lost the war based on their doctrine. India does not even have to reply in kind and nuke it back just for the sake of it.

If India can split Pak, Baloch, Sindh, Pakhtun who will go their own way nd not be anti India and we then crush the Punjabis, occupy them and state of Pakistsn ceases to exists, then no we don't have to glass Pak even in the event of they nuking us.

I think Pakistan war planners know that they are bound to lose in a conventional war with India, all the time...

 

[Yusuf]

I think Pakistan war planners know that they are bound to lose in a conventional war with India, all the time...

For India, winning a war which splits Pak is more important. Even if we suffer tac nukes. Seriously we don't have to Nuke them back as long as all our objectives are met. Winning the war and meeting objectives is more important than whih bomb is used.

 

[spikey360]

Ofcourse there is the threat of nuclear war. To think that Pakistan can counter India in a more rational way is ridiculous. As Yusuf points out, the idea is to split Pakistan. Indira Gandhi had almost done it. Vajpayee intended on doing it.
Boy, do I miss our fiery leaders. Not meek and american ass-licking like the present PM. It is a shame that a punjabi can be so weak and indecisive like him.

 

[asianobserve]

I just hope Indian policymakers don't over calculate their ability and under calculate the Pakistanis ability to respond, otherwise you're both back in stone age. India has more to lose in a nuke skirmish with Pakistan and the Chinese will be laughing with their bottoms all the way.

 

[nrj]

I just hope Indian policymakers don't over calculate their ability and under calculate the Pakistanis ability to respond, otherwise you're both back in stone age. India has more to lose in a nuke skirmish with Pakistan and the Chinese will be laughing with their bottoms all the way.

Nobody and absolutely nobody other than India knows capability of Pakistan better than anyone on this planet.

Pak can not overwhelm India to put it in stone age by nuclear attack.

Yanks sitting thousands of miles away have no experience or understanding of how Pakis work.

 

[The Messiah]

I just hope Indian policymakers don't over calculate their ability and under calculate the Pakistanis ability to respond, otherwise you're both back in stone age. India has more to lose in a nuke skirmish with Pakistan and the Chinese will be laughing with their bottoms all the way.

Dont worry if we go down...we'll take everyone with us.

I hope a few are lobbed on malayasia as well for good measure. In a nuke skirmish the whole world suffers...if even 100 nukes are lobbed the amount of dust in the atmosphere would block sunlight for years.