Russia & Pakistan sign defence cooperation agreement

[Neo]

Ok so your foreign policy is taken care of. Now ask your PM to provide education and health services to people. Let us see if there is any movement there.

Afaik the topic is defence agreement between Pakistan and Russia so stick to it.

Do you see me asking how many toilets Modi has built sofar?

 

[pmaitra]

Afaik the topic is defence agreement between Pakistan and Russia so stick to it.

Do you see me asking how many toilets Modi has built sofar?

Agreed.

Guys, please stick to the topic.

 

[Neo]

Okay if your are basing your arguments on visit Paradigm. Then Chinese prepmier skipped Pakistan for India. Trouble in paradise?

The visit is postponed due to security concerns, not cancelled. And China signed the multi billion dollar agreement last month when Nawaz visited China.

China commits $45.6b for economic corridor with Pakistan | Pakistan Today

 

[Neo]

Ya..Paki has keen interest in MI-35,Su-35,S3000 and Jv...LOL...how many cents you have in your pocket.....pick up your begging bowl again and stand in front of White House and Obama will throw some change into your bowl...if not..run to Riyadh and give a long, pitiful cry and King Abdulla will throw some coins towards you...all this change may be make you able to buy the toilet seat of a SU-35...

That is rich coming from you when your own govt is cash strapped and cancelling urgent defence deals left and right and defaulting on existing payments.
Till the late eightees when India was dirt poor, you managed to import huge amounts of cheap and inferior Soviet weapons in numbers because quantity has a quality of its own. How did you manage to pay? Through landmark barter deals, no cash transactions but rice, wheat and sugar barter deals for weapons. The Soviet Union re-exported it to COMECON members and thats how you got most of your weapons. You faced famine in the sixties and bankcruptcy several times, as recent as early nineties but it didn't hurt your weapons imports.

Our financial crisis is temporary, largely due to huge power cuts and serious measure are being taken to solve the problem with fresh Chinese investment. We are still in much better position than 1999 when we were left with merely $400 million in forex.

As far as your begging mantra is concerned, there is no free lunch. Pakistan gets US support under EDA like many other allies and pays a hefty price for it. Israel is the largest recipient of USaid for decaes. Why do you never call them.beggars?
China doesn't give us free stuff, its all heavily subsidised due to our strategic alliance because a strong Pakistan suits Chinese interest.
Arabs are worse than jews when it comes to money, no free lunch theor either. The get what they pay for.

So kindly stop taking cheap shots and contribute positively.

 

[prohumanity]

Neo ..my question is when will Pakistan stand on its two feet ? How long your country will keep doing the bidding of other stronger nations and ignoring the wellbeing of its own people. India hate and envy has got Pakistan to this pitiable position and the same policy continues getting it into deeper hole.
I wish to see Pakistan an independent country self assured and with backbone of its own so that it doesnot need a "master" (either US or China) There is no point in getting into destructive race with India...its not equal to India. India has 10 times bigger economy, 8 times the population and 6 times the landmass...Allah/Iswar has blessed India with all this.. He doe snot want you to envy what he gave to India. Be yourself and be friendly so we can eat Biryani together.

 

[sgarg]

That is rich coming from you when your own govt is cash strapped and cancelling urgent defence deals left and right and defaulting on existing payments.
Till the late eightees when India was dirt poor, you managed to import huge amounts of cheap and inferior Soviet weapons in numbers because quantity has a quality of its own. How did you manage to pay? Through landmark barter deals, no cash transactions but rice, wheat and sugar barter deals for weapons. The Soviet Union re-exported it to COMECON members and thats how you got most of your weapons. You faced famine in the sixties and bankcruptcy several times, as recent as early nineties but it didn't hurt your weapons imports.

Our financial crisis is temporary, largely due to huge power cuts and serious measure are being taken to solve the problem with fresh Chinese investment. We are still in much better position than 1999 when we were left with merely $400 million in forex.

As far as your begging mantra is concerned, there is no free lunch. Pakistan gets US support under EDA like many other allies and pays a hefty price for it. Israel is the largest recipient of USaid for decaes. Why do you never call them.beggars?
China doesn't give us free stuff, its all heavily subsidised due to our strategic alliance because a strong Pakistan suits Chinese interest.
Arabs are worse than jews when it comes to money, no free lunch theor either. The get what they pay for.

So kindly stop taking cheap shots and contribute positively.

Impressed by an erudite Pakistani.

So you are a happy Pakistani. You have everything in your pocket. No go develop your country. I am not interested in hearing your nonsense. Fine you signed an agreement. So what?

Whom are you trying to impress.

 

[sgarg]

Neo ..my question is when will Pakistan stand on its two feet ? How long your country will keep doing the bidding of other stronger nations and ignoring the wellbeing of its own people. India hate and envy has got Pakistan to this pitiable position and the same policy continues getting it into deeper hole.
I wish to see Pakistan an independent country self assured and with backbone of its own so that it doesnot need a "master" (either US or China) There is no point in getting into destructive race with India...its not equal to India. India has 10 times bigger economy, 8 times the population and 6 times the landmass...Allah/Iswar has blessed India with all this.. He doe snot want you to envy what he gave to India. Be yourself and be friendly so we can eat Biryani together.

Principles are more important than wealth. No eating Biryani together. A country that brings up its children on hate for India gets ZERO SYMPATHY from me. I do not care what agreement Pakistan signs. Bullets will be replied with bullets. Period.

 

[prohumanity]

If they only understand BULLET language, we have to talk to them in BULLET language. If they want to learn and talk to us in BIRYANI language..we would be happy to talk to them in BIRYANI language. Have you heard "Doodh Mangoge Kheer denge..Kasmir Mangoge Chir denge.." That should be our policy. Let them go and hide in the behinds of any major power..does not matter.

 

[sgarg]

If they only understand BULLET language, we have to talk to them in BULLET language. If they want to learn and talk to us in BIRYANI language..we would be happy to talk to them in BIRYANI language. Have you heard "Doodh Mangoge Kheer denge..Kasmir Mangoge Chir denge.." That should be our policy. Let them go and hide in the behinds of any major power..does not matter.

My friend, they have to start with what they teach to their children. You should study the issue deeply before commenting. Most Indians have zero idea of Pakistan. There is no benefit in being naive.

 

[Neo]

Neo ..my question is when will Pakistan stand on its two feet ? How long your country will keep doing the bidding of other stronger nations and ignoring the wellbeing of its own people. India hate and envy has got Pakistan to this pitiable position and the same policy continues getting it into deeper hole.
I wish to see Pakistan an independent country self assured and with backbone of its own so that it doesnot need a "master" (either US or China) There is no point in getting into destructive race with India...its not equal to India. India has 10 times bigger economy, 8 times the population and 6 times the landmass...Allah/Iswar has blessed India with all this.. He doe snot want you to envy what he gave to India. Be yourself and be friendly so we can eat Biryani together.

I could ask you the same questions, we are both plagued with dynasty politics, corruption and poor HDI performance; the gap is not that big. Till 2011/12 India wad recieving more govt to govt foreign aid than Pakistan. And if you think that in a few months since the new govt is in power you have overcome all your problems then you are naive.
Our political climate is changing and eventually we will get there. Even now when the common man favors a military dictator over a Zardari or a Nawaz, the Army has chosen to stay in the baracks and give democracy a chance. That means something.
Major shift in foreign policy since 2011 has resulted in more balanced dealings with the west and a close working relationship with China and Russia without depending on aid. This new govt may be corrupt as hell, she's pro trade and development and good things are coming our way too.

Problem with this forum, DFI is that no one is sincerely interested with actually discussing the reality but rather
promote the old rhetorics and brand Pakistan with all the negativity one can think off. Pakistan is a remarkable country which has survived for 67 years and she is changing fast. Independent judiciary, press freedom, political rallies and sit ins...all was unthinkable a decade ago. But instead of seeing and appreciating the progress, all we discuss here is polio, sectarian and communal violance and heinous crimes. This is not the way to know and understand your neighbor or adversary.

You want to share biryani, why not start building bridges here and treat Pakistani guests with some respect? Just look at the lengthy intro thread by a new Pakistani member and go thru some of the degrading comments based on a single hello from the new bee and tell me if this is Indian hospitality?

Stop comparing India with Pakistan, look for someone your size. And for the record, do sone research before you talk numbers. Indian landmass is not six times the size of Pakistan but four, the populstion is six times bigger and economy eight times, not ten.

 

[Neo]

Impressed by an erudite Pakistani.

So you are a happy Pakistani. You have everything in your pocket. No go develop your country. I am not interested in hearing your nonsense. Fine you signed an agreement. So what?

Whom are you trying to impress.

Lol, try asking this questions to the long list of insecure, disappointed and angry Indian members here. You may find their true feelings and statements of insecurity in.the Mi-35 thread.

I have no issues that you guys discuss Pakistan here, most of the time I find it amusing and show some of the posts to my Dutch friends and we share a good laugh.

 

[anoop_mig25]

The next step naturally is to get Pakistan aboard SCO formally. Then Afghanistan becomes a dumpling, to be soft-partitioned by peripheral stakeholders including Iran and Pakistan with respective proxies (as firewalls) to contain terrorism. A figurehead will be still sitting in Kabul. An axis from the Arctic to the Arabian Sea in the making!

Can u tell me why wasnt pakistan was inducted as permanent member of SCO ...

I mean russia was never against pakistan begin inducted as permenent member of sco

 

[sorcerer]

I could ask you the same questions, we are both plagued with dynasty politics, corruption and poor HDI performance; the gap is not that big. Till 2011/12 India wad recieving more govt to govt foreign aid than Pakistan. And if you think that in a few months since the new govt is in power you have overcome all your problems then you are naive.

List of countries by foreign aid received - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It shows Pakistan recleving more foreign aide than India.
The gap between both the countries are huge in many counts, with Pakistan scoring low on all counts and getting the "Pakistan beyond a failed state " Award.

Pakistan beyond a failed state - Daily Times
Pakistan beyond a failed state

The Crisis States Research Centre defines a 'failed state' as a condition of 'state collapse', i.e. a state that can no longer perform its basic security and development functions and has no effective control over its territory and borders.

India stayed in democratic power after her indipendence and progressed. The New govt is a bit more proactice and we will overcome our problems eventually.

[hr] [/hr]

Our political climate is changing and eventually we will get there. Even now when the common man favors a military dictator over a Zardari or a Nawaz, the Army has chosen to stay in the baracks and give democracy a chance. That means something.

Is that the reason why the common man joined the military backed Protest to overthrow the democratically elected Govt?
How Pakistan's Military Benefits from Civilian Unrest | The Diplomat

With Islamabad increasingly on the defensive, the military is gaining an upper hand. Consider Sharif's decision last week to make the armed forces responsible for security of sensitive facilities in Islamabad during the protests. This can be interpreted either as a sop to the military or as an acknowledgment that the government can't protect its own people — or itself. Additionally, Sharif's Independence Day speech on Aug. 14, the first official day of the protests, was rife with praise for Pakistan's military. That such praise came from a civilian leader as combative as Sharif is quite telling. Most significantly, on Aug. 19, as marchers entered the Red Zone, the government ceded full security of the area to the military. The government gave the military carte blanche to do what it so relishes: serve as the nation's protector and savior.

Meaning, your democratic Govt cannot function without active support from the army.

When General Sharif Went to Washington | The Diplomat (This would be the latest from Pakistan that shows Military rules over democracy)

The answer is Pakistan, a country that has experienced military rule for half its existence, and where the military remains, bar none, the country's most powerful institution. It plays a key role in politics, lords over a vast economic empire, and enjoys disproportionate shares of the national budget.

[hr][/hr]

Stop comparing India with Pakistan, look for someone your size. And for the record, do sone research before you talk numbers. Indian landmass is not six times the size of Pakistan but four, the populstion is six times bigger and economy eight times, not ten.

Absolutely. That would be my advice to you too based on the above facts.
THe fact is not actual numbers be it 6 or 4 times or 8..its to state that India is bigger.

Lol, try asking this questions to the long list of insecure, disappointed and angry Indian members here. You may find their true feelings and statements of insecurity in.the Mi-35 thread.

Mi-35 customized for ops making India insecure-thats a new thing. The posters in here were pointing to the fact that India has other options and is not worried, angry or otherwise. Statements like these make us laugh cuz they remind us of Pakistan as a teen who entered puberty and is all feeling like an adult.

Peace out!

 

[amoy]

Can u tell me why wasnt pakistan was inducted as permanent member of SCO ...

I mean russia was never against pakistan begin inducted as permenent member of sco

That's owing to India's delay tactics by submitting the application for a formal membership too. It's put Russia and China in a dilemma of either admitting both aboard or putting both on hold for the sake of ostensible "neutrality" . However, India under the skin doesn't wanna be confined to SCO that would reduce its ability to play both sides (East and West).

Yet, with India gradually distancing itself from Russia Ruski will make up his mind along with China to induct Pakistan first, in view of Afghan imperatives.

Iran's membership shall be prioritized too.

 

[sgarg]

@amoy, sometimes it is better to wait for events to pan out rather than jump up and down.

Russia's immediate priority is to evacuate its gas and oil to alternative customers. I accept that objective and support Russia. I have no problem with Russia's security agreement with Pakistan.

To think that Russia has started a major change of its policy direction is premature.

We need to see and we need time for that. It is clear that Russia's influence in India has declined while Western influence in India has increased. This is also true that India is no longer a Russian client state as India was in USSR time. There is a change in circumstances.

India's economy is highly integrated with the Western economy. India cannot ignore that fact.

India will first focus on economic imperatives and then security imperatives.

 

[sgarg]

Russia's engagement with Pakistan is somewhat recent and the outcome of this relationship is far from certain.

Even if this relationship develops well (which I think is highly unlikely), it will take considerable time to reach a position of mutual benefit.

This time will be sufficient for India to offset Russia's departure from the Indian projects.

 

[sgarg]

Lol, try asking this questions to the long list of insecure, disappointed and angry Indian members here. You may find their true feelings and statements of insecurity in.the Mi-35 thread.

I have no issues that you guys discuss Pakistan here, most of the time I find it amusing and show some of the posts to my Dutch friends and we share a good laugh.

Most Indians including most posters on this discussion board have no real idea of military issues. This is same with similar Pakistani discussion boards.

There are many similarities on both sides of the border.

A defence cooperation agreement between Pakistan and Russia is good for India. I have no issue with such agreement.

 

[Poseidon]

@Neo
Ghani will visit India in Jan-Feb 2015 acc Afghan embassy.
Initially the visit was scheduled in October but had to be postponed because of G20 summit for Modi.

BTW everyone knows Ghani visited pak because of US instructions.

 

[sgarg]

@Neo is confused about the importance of this agreement. Pakistan can buy anything it needs from China at prices lower than Russia can offer. Russia is not competitive in Pakistani military procurements. Small items like engines for JF-17 or Mi-171 helicopters do not make for a very large military relationship.

However Pakistan is important due to its location as pipelines have to pass through Afghanistan and Pakistan on the way to India. Pipelines are good for Pakistan and Afghanistan as they will get transit fees. This money is specially relevant to Afghanistan where government needs sources of revenue.

The stability of Afghanistan is very much dependent on raw materials and trade.

The Modi government will allow pipelines to be built. This is very different from previous Congress governments which were not keen on pipelines.

Pakistan should come forward and take the hand of friendship offered by India. Pakistan will have to drop its stubborn attitude in order to do that.

 

[Dovah]

The visit is postponed due to security concerns, not cancelled. And China signed the multi billion dollar agreement last month when Nawaz visited China.

China commits $45.6b for economic corridor with Pakistan | Pakistan Today

"Security Concerns". Lel.

Good for you.