Russia Is Actually Abandoning The Dollar

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
@asianobserve

Whoa!!!
If they spend for oil or other things... wont it both mean dollar entering into transaction... How will there be exccesive supply unless ppl are making own dollars and is spending on other things!!
Exactly my point to @pmaitra. There can be excessive Dollar since those are being used in transactions.

Pls. backread our exchanges so that you can get the context of my post.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
No, neither of them are trying to get rid of Dollars and US treasury bonds.
In the foreseeable future, US will still be the strongest country in this world so US dollar will continue to be the most stable currency in this world.
What China is doing now is reduce the volume of US dollar in her FX reserve and make the other countries rely on US$ less.
In other words, Chinese is dismantling the house which is called US dollar international trading system while tries to avoid the collapse of the house.
So long as China is an export driven economy it will need the Dollar to be high compared to the Yuan.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
@asianobserve

Whoa!!!
If they spend for oil or other things... wont it both mean dollar entering into transaction... How will there be exccesive supply unless ppl are making own dollars and is spending on other things!!
Exactly my point to @pmaitra. There can be excessive Dollar since those are being used in transactions.

Pls. backread our exchanges so that you can get the context of my post.
The Petro-Dollar is the currency that one must possess to purchase Saudi oil. Since oil is usually in high demand, especially after the Suez Canal Crisis, oil being available only for Dollars also raises the value of the Dollar. However, when the price of oil in Dollars crashes, the Dollar's value w.r.t. oil might be very high, but the value of Dollar as a means of purchasing oil becomes insignificant.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,016
Likes
2,314
Country flag
I largely agree with you, except that getting rid of US Treasury Bonds part. PRC is settling some of its international payments using US Treasury Bonds, and not exclusively using Dollar FX.

Also, you should see this. PRC is indeed getting rid of US Treasury bonds.

http://www.treasury.gov/ticdata/Publish/mfh.txt
The Chinese is simply transferring the risk of US treasury Bonds to other countries' shoulders.
Dollar and US treasury bond are simply two sides of the coin.
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,016
Likes
2,314
Country flag
So long as China is an export driven economy it will need the Dollar to be high compared to the Yuan.
Wrong!
Yuan has appreciated more than 30% against US dollars since 2005, so China doesn't need the dollar t be high;
What China need is that dollar depreciates SLOWLY.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
The Chinese is simply transferring the risk of US treasury Bonds to other countries' shoulders.
Dollar and US treasury bond are simply two sides of the coin.
Right, so we are on the same page, regardless of how we phrase our statements. :)
 

asianobserve

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
May 5, 2011
Messages
12,846
Likes
8,556
Country flag
Wrong!
Yuan has appreciated more than 30% against US dollars since 2005, so China doesn't need the dollar t be high;
What China need is that dollar depreciates SLOWLY.
Still the same, you need the Dollar to be higher than Yuan.
 

Dark Sorrow

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
4,988
Likes
9,931
Why, does the Saudis have an alternative? By accepting Dollar, the Saudis made it easier for buyers to transact with it.



Dollars are not only used to buy oil. Practically all international trade relies on dollar. So if oil importing countries are spending less Dollars now they are most likely spending on other goods that they can suddenly afford to purchase more now that they have huge savings in oil.




What is a "Dollar inflation rate?" I thought inflation happens in economies not currencies (currency value and supply affect inflation).




Are you sure with China? China's continued economic growth relies on being competitive. They are doing it by keeping the Yuan artificially low as against the US Dollar through US Dollar debt purchases (which makes the value of the US DOllar high). China has proven to be more calculating than the Russians when it comes to their economy (they know they can only become more powerful if they have a very big economy). While Putin and Russia are so fond of bluster China are slowly but surely working hard to grow their economy.

Sir, whatever you say won't convene them.
They won't agree for the fact that it is easy, convent and standard to international business in US Dollar. People in this forum always talking about PRC doing business using Ruble, etc. but forget to grasp the concept that Chinese traders and manufacturers all are pro US Dollar as it help their economy because exchange difference between Yuan and US Dollar.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
Answered inline:

Why, does the Saudis have an alternative? By accepting Dollar, the Saudis made it easier for buyers to transact with it.

The Saudis have an alternative, i.e. getting bombed by the US, err, I mean getting democracy spread by US.

No, by accepting only Dollars and nothing else, the Saudis made it difficult for countries to buy oil. India bought oil from Iran using gold as a hedge, and bypassed the Dollar. They did it because it was in India's interests to do so. Using the Dollars is not always in the interest of a country. Yes, if one is only trying to uphold the interest of the US; otherwise no. Payment in national currency is almost always beneficial. If you don't know this, then you don't know a basic fact of economics.


Dollars are not only used to buy oil. Practically all international trade relies on dollar. So if oil importing countries are spending less Dollars now they are most likely spending on other goods that they can suddenly afford to purchase more now that they have huge savings in oil.

Really? Oil importing countries spending less Dollars on oil are spending more Dollars on other things? It looks like EU import rates (convert Euro to Dollar) has no correlation with falling oil prices. I understand that there are too many factors involved, but that doesn't change the fact that you are making things up. European Union Imports | 2002-2015 | Data | Chart | Calendar | Forecast


What is a "Dollar inflation rate?" I thought inflation happens in economies not currencies (currency value and supply affect inflation).

"US (+) inflation due to printing of too many Dollars out of thin air." Did that make sense now?

Check the consumer price index, as one of the many metrices:
Value of a Dollar Today: Why It's Less, How It's Measured


Are you sure with China? China's continued economic growth relies on being competitive. They are doing it by keeping the Yuan artificially low as against the US Dollar through US Dollar debt purchases (which makes the value of the US DOllar high). China has proven to be more calculating than the Russians when it comes to their economy (they know they can only become more powerful if they have a very big economy). While Putin and Russia are so fond of bluster China are slowly but surely working hard to grow their economy.

I am sure PRC is getting rid of US Treasury bonds, which, albeit different from the Dollar, is closely linked to the Dollar. PRC is also trying to reduce its dependency on Dollar as a means of international trade. Why? Too much forex in any one currency, in this case the Dollar (no matter how blindly you are in love with the Dollar) is a risk, and PRC is trying to reduce its risks. No one wants to put all their eggs in one basket. Historically, governments have kept forex reserves from multiple countries via bonds and currencies.
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
5,016
Likes
2,314
Country flag
Still the same, you need the Dollar to be higher than Yuan.
No, it doesn't matter whether dollar is higher. In the world trading system, people are only concerned of the MOVEMENT of exchange rate: for example, Europe dollar value has always bee around 1.2 US dollars for years, opposing to your theory, German is still a export driven economy. What really drives Americans mad is the moment Europe dollar starts to depreciate even though it is above US dollar.
 

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
Drilling machinery are mainly manufactured by German and American companies. Machinery were smuggled into Iran from Germany. US let this slide but it won't let such thing happen against Iran.
Last time I checked Americans controlled the computing industry (all semi-conductor, electronics and software).
Major MNC are not going to risk sell any goods to embargoed nations with risk to loose western base. I don't know if you know this but if you have to import electronics, semi-conductors or software from western nations especially US, UK, Germany, France and even Japan or South Korea (to some extent) you have to sign an undertaking that anything you make won't go to nations Embargoed by the State Department (for US) or respective External Affair Ministries. Doing so you will be permanently debarred from purchasing again and will be liable for prosecution.
You are overestimation China. Almost all Chinese high end goods are manufactured my Western MNC be them any thing. Even Hawaii and Xiaomi contains all major Western equipment.
Why should we as Indians accept Rouble. Our imports are from Russia are mainly limited to Defence. Now even Israelis, Americans and Europeans are catching up. On the contrary we import a lot of stuff from China, EU (Germans and Swiss mainly) and Middle East who only accept US dollars. Indian mainly exports mainly to EU, US, China and Middle East who can readily pay in US dollar. So why should be accept Rouble that no one except Russia will accept as form of currency.
Your arguments have been advanced for a long time; and proves that financial slavery is path to physical slavery.
Yes the current system is dominated by the Western firms and Western financial system.

China has secretly built a parallel manufacturing infrastructure which is independent of Western system. My knowledge says that China is unique and can actually spring a surprise.

Russia will have to depend on China for many goods.

India is in the period of economic slavery. India is dependent on the West.

India's situation cannot be compared with Russia. Russia and China can function independently of Western system.
 

sgarg

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2014
Messages
3,480
Likes
986
It makes a lot of sense for India to use currency swaps with Russia. This allows Indian company to buy Russian goods in Russian rubles which can be provided by Indian banks at a stable exchange rate. This makes planning much more efficient.

India can buy a lot of stuff from Russia, specially now after depreciation of ruble.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
US Hubris, BRICS Alternative Are Splitting the World

With one camp bent on forceful dominance and militarism, the other on cooperation, non-interference and trade

Jeff Thomas (Doug Casey's International Man) [SOURCE]

This article originally appeared at Doug Casey's International Man.



So much for the peace dividend

In 1991, the Cold War between the US and the USSR ended, as, economically, the USSR had run its course.

Since that time, the US has had the ability to back off on armaments and to strengthen itself economically, to become even more powerful as the world's present empire.

But, of course, that's not what they did.

Instead, they went headlong in the direction of becoming a more highly armed, more fascist state.

Along the way, they became extremely reckless with their economy, following a Keynesian model that contributed to the greatest debt bubble the world has ever seen.

During this period, they had numerous knowledgeable advisors who recommended a Westphalian system of cooperation between nations.

But the leaders of the empire chose instead to pursue greater, more forceful dominance of the world.

Over recent decades, US leaders have become increasingly self-possessed with their assumed level of power.

So much so that, as long as they can sell the idea to the American people that the larger world is a threat to the US, they can advance as they please against other nations.

Nowhere in their thinking were they more incorrect than in their assumption that they could arrange for a takeover in Ukraine, a country long regarded as a key objective by the West in lessening Russian power.

Russian Takeover

But in the decades since 1991, Russia has rebuilt itself and has become powerful once again.

In addition, its present leader has shown himself to be able to consistently outwit US leaders. This was either not anticipated or was regarded as unimportant.

Not only have American attempts at diminishing Russian influence resulted in Russia deftly countering every US move, they have resulted in Russia's leader gaining great popular support, just as the US president loses his.

Further, it has driven the Russians toward the other BRICS, convincing them to become closer with regard to treaties, trade, and economic development.

Along the way, the less powerful countries in the world, seeing the rise of the BRICS and realising that they might need to choose between the two, are choosing the BRICS.

The Russians and Chinese have been busy in recent years, signing treaties and agreements first with Second- and Third-World countries and now with Western allies in Southeast Asia and Europe.

At this point, the US, if it had any sense at all, would back off dramatically, but this will not happen.

Even such a stalwart US advisor as Henry Kissinger recently told Germany's Der Spiegel that, regarding the handling of the Ukraine effort,

"If the West is honest with itself, it has to admit that there were mistakes on its side." He further stated,

"There clearly is this danger, and we must not ignore it."
He warned that not to do so may result in "a historic tragedy."

Coming from Mister Kissinger, these comments, as understated as they are, speak volumes as to the folly of the present US leadership.

Only a decade or two ago, the US had visions of creating a world in which it was the undisputed leader, with the other powers acting as lesser players, beholden to the US.

But, incredibly, the US has trashed its own economy, driven productivity away (via the world's highest corporate taxation), and created a level of debt that is far too large to ever repay. To add to this, they have invaded country after country.

What on Earth made them think that the BRICS would take this lying down?

Sterling BRICS

By comparison to the US, the BRICS, in recent years, have done a sterling job of becoming increasingly productive, establishing treaties and trade agreements, and working toward a common understanding that the US and the EU are a danger to them.
  • China will take over as the world's most productive country.
  • China Merchants Bank now issues the world's #2 credit card.
  • In response to US/EU sanctions, Russia and China have recently inked the largest energy-provision agreement the world has ever seen, posing a major threat to the continued position of the petrodollar.
  • By mid-2015, the Angola-Brazil fibre-optic cable will enter service, providing cheaper (by 80%) communications for the BRICS, independent of the US.
  • Increasingly, the world is entering into agreements to trade in the yuan and the ruble. Some EU countries now issue bonds in yuan.



New SWIFT

In recent years, I've forecasted that an even more significant step would be taken by the BRICS—that they would create their own SWIFT system.

At first, this may have appeared unlikely, based on their continued statements that their objective was to gain a more equitable seat at the IMF table.

Additionally, many people have not felt that such a move would be all that significant, as SWIFT is little more than a means by which to transfer payments.

However, I regard the possibility of a second SWIFT system as a major, major development, as, without it, the BRICS are still tied to the US/EU banking system and must therefore accept their edicts.

My belief has been that the BRICS would wait until most of their ducks were in a row before making this announcement.

Russia has now made it. It's set to be operative within the first half of 2015.

I've often stated that, with each year, both the magnitude and the frequency of events will increase. That theory seems to be holding true.

Only a year or so ago, the question of whether the BRICS might even form their own IMF might have seemed quite fanciful. Today, we should be looking more closely at this possibility.

With this final step, the world could literally function as two separate worlds.

Communication, trade, and inter-governmental economic dealings will undoubtedly continue, but at this historic point, the BRICS will have the ability to operate entirely independently and can no longer be held to ransom through the threats of sanctions from the West.

The world is now changing rapidly, and our future plans should be based not on what exists at present, but on what is likely to exist in the future.

Editor's Note: There's little any individual can practically do to change the trajectory of this trend in motion. The best you can and should do is to stay informed so that you can protect yourself in the best way possible, and even profit from the situation. That's what International Man is all about—making the most of your personal freedom and financial opportunity around the world. The free IM Communiqué is a great place to start.
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
Expert: Oil Price Wars Fatally Wounded the Petrodollar

"For the first time, too, we see the end of the petro-dollar as a system for recirculating oil revenues to Wall Street."

"The fall in the price of oil has suddenly created huge financial turbulence, which is endangering the global financial system."


Yonca Poyraz Dogan (Today´s Zaman - Turkish Daily) [SOURCE]


Alastair Crooke is a former MI6 official, the director and founder of Beirut-based Conflicts Forum and formerly adviser on Middle East to EU Foreign Policy Chief Javier Solana.

This is an excerpt from an interview that originally appeared in Today's Zaman (Turkish English-language daily).




Alastair Crooke, ex spook and diplomat

Crooke, who was in Turkey for the Ä°stanbul Forum, has answered our questions in this regard including the question as to where Turkey stands in the world.

Would you tell us about your ideas in regards to the "financialization of the global order"?

For some time, the international order was structured around the United Nations and the corpus of international law, but more and more the West has tended to bypass the UN as an institution designed to maintain the international order, and instead relies on economic sanctions to pressure some countries.

We have a dollar-based financial system, and through instrumentalizing America's position as controller of all dollar transactions, the US has been able to bypass the old tools of diplomacy and the UN -- in order to further its aims.

But increasingly, this monopoly over the reserve currency has become the unilateral tool of the United States -- displacing multilateral action at the UN.

The US claims jurisdiction over any dollar-denominated transaction that takes place anywhere in the world. And most business and trading transactions in the world are denominated in dollars.

This essentially constitutes the financialization of the global order: The International Order depends more on control by the US Treasury and Federal Reserve than on the UN as before.

When did this start?

It started principally with Iran and it has been developed subsequently. In a book, "Treasury's War," the tool of exclusion from the dollar-denominated global financial system is described as a "neutron bomb." When a country is to be isolated, a "scarlet letter" is issued by the US Treasury that asserts that such-and-such bank is somehow suspected of being linked to a terrorist movement -- or of being involved in money laundering. The author of "Treasury's War" [Juan Zarate], who was the chief architect of modern financial warfare and a former senior Treasury and White House official, says this scarlet letter constitutes a more potent bomb than any military weapon.

This system of reliance on dollar hegemony no longer requires American dependency on the UN and hands control to the US Treasury overseen by Steve Cohen -- a reflection of the fact that the military tools have become less available to the US administration, for domestic political reasons.

But with Ukraine, we have entered a new era: We have a substantial, geostrategic conflict taking place, but it's effectively a geo-financial war between the US and Russia. We have the collapse in the oil prices; we have the currency wars; we have the contrived "shorting" -- selling short -- of the ruble. We have a geo-financial war, and what we are seeing as a consequence of this geo-financial war is that first of all, it has brought about a close alliance between Russia and China.

China understands that Russia constitutes the first domino; if Russia is to fall, China will be next. These two states are together moving to create a parallel financial system, disentangled from the Western financial system. It includes replicating SWIFT [Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication] and creating entities such as the Asian Development Bank. One of the principal tools in the hands of Washington to control the global system was always the International Monetary Fund [IMF].

Nations have to go to the IMF to ask for financial help, when in difficulties, but recently it was China -- and not the IMF -- which bailed out Venezuela, Argentina and Russia as their currencies crashed. China became concerned when the ruble crashed on Dec. 16-17, and intervened to halt a run on the currency. The IMF and the World Bank were no longer at the center of the global financial order. They had been displaced by China.

What would you say about the prospects of success of this new order?

It is too early to say that it will be successful, but it is a very important shift that is taking place. It has already started to have an effect. Take Russia: European and American leaders thought that Russia would weaken because of sanctions and the fall of the ruble, but China intervened and stopped the collapse in the ruble. In short, China is operating as a backstop to a financial system that is in the process of shifting dramatically away from Western control. And it affects the Middle East.

Why does it affect the Middle East?

Because the consequences of these oil and currency wars are influencing other countries -- many energy producers in the Middle East and elsewhere and emerging markets have seen their currencies crash as the dollar gets stronger. There is a huge move of capital out of emerging markets and out of Middle Eastern states whose currencies consequently have been adversely affected. For the first time, too, we see the end of the petro-dollar as a system for recirculating oil revenues to Wall Street.

For the first time, it has turned negative: It is sucking liquidity out from Wall Street, not putting it in. The fall in the price of oil has suddenly created huge financial turbulence, which is endangering the global financial system.

Why has the oil price dropped?

There was a decision by Saudi Arabia to reduce the price of oil for two reasons: to hurt Iran and to put pressure on Russia to change its stance and drop its support for President [Bashar al-]Assad. The Saudi determination to get rid of Assad remains extremely strong in Riyadh. They only reduced output by 100,000 barrels a day in the first month, and then it started an avalanche: The market had been artificially inflated by the oil companies lending crude oil to financial investors who want a hedge against inflation and currency fluctuations.

Investors were borrowing physical oil, which made them feel safe, and knew that the oil companies would eventually repurchase the physical oil from them in due time. With the fall of the price of oil, all of this purely investment demand vanished, and the price dropped further. One sees something similar in the gold market, where only 10 percent of gold transactions involve the transfer of ownership of actual gold. The other 90 percent are simply paper bets on the price of gold, but which never result in the purchase or sale of actual gold.
Comment that we might want to validate, debate, and ponder about:
Sinbad2 -> mikhas9 hours ago

Actually the seeds of destruction of the US empire were sown many years ago.
President Johnson spent so much money bombing Vietnam that the US had to sell its gold reserves, to prop up the dollar(London Gold pool).
They only stopped selling gold when they ran out of pure gold. They tried to sell the melted down gold coins that Roosevelt seized, but because of the debasement the London Metal exchanged refused.
So Nixon put the US dollar on the oil standard and got the world to only accept US dollars for oil purchases.
The US makes $1 billion dollars a day in money changing fees alone, and most of the Gulf oil money remains in the US.
The US thought they could destroy Russia the same way they destroyed the Soviet Union, by crashing oil prices.
But the Russians, unlike the Americans learn from their mistakes.
The US has shot itself in the head, which is why they need a war, they need to steal some money in a hurry.
 

mayfair

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
6,032
Likes
13,109
Comment that we might want to validate, debate, and ponder about:
There are two aspects to it

1. China itself is quite dependent on Western markets for its economy, at the same time they are deeply aware of the pitfalls of becoming too reliant on them. The claim that China has stepped in and arrested the decline of the ruble is not very clear. How exactly did they do that? Will India and Russia push forth a bilateral ruble-rupee trade arrangement? This would be especially favourable in the transactions involving arms and weapons systems.

2. What steps has Russia taken to ameliorate the oil price crash and western sanctions?
 

Virendra

Ambassador
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Messages
4,697
Likes
3,041
Country flag
I'm perplexed as to why the current Government of India was sadist during the Putin visit and blushed so much when Obama came.
They've lost a big opportunity, the way their dealt (or not) with the Russian leader.

Ideally we should be working overtime to improve our relations with China, an upcoming power with which we share not only territorial borders but also civilizational values. However tough and risky it might seem, is the more prudent way. Looking away from China at this time would be like an emotionally blind and irrational child unwilling to engage someone they've fought with, even when the needs are telling otherwise.
Given our past with China I can understand why it might still be difficult to make those very essential moves.

But what gives with Russian equation? Totally unexplainable inertia on our part.
I don't see a single Indo-Russian move on economic front. Are we going on in stealth mode?
The articles above don't mention India even when they talk about BRICS.
That tells me something. We're not in the game yet.

Regards,
Virendra
 

mayfair

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
6,032
Likes
13,109
I'm perplexed as to why the current Government of India was sadist during the Putin visit and blushed so much when Obama came.
They've lost a big opportunity, the way their dealt (or not) with the Russian leader.

Ideally we should be working overtime to improve our relations with China, an upcoming power with which we share not only territorial borders but also civilizational values. However tough and risky it might seem, is the more prudent way. Looking away from China at this time would be like an emotionally blind and irrational child unwilling to engage someone they've fought with, even when the needs are telling otherwise.
Given our past with China I can understand why it might still be difficult to make those very essential moves.

But what gives with Russian equation? Totally unexplainable inertia on our part.
I don't see a single Indo-Russian move on economic front. Are we going on in stealth mode?
The articles above don't mention India even when they talk about BRICS.
I would say that we have gone into low key mode with Russia rather than the stealth mode. Get on with the business minus the usual shenanigans that accompanied the Indo-US detente.

If you recall, we actually hosted the Crimean Prime Minister Sergei Aksyonov and have also set up a Indian-Crimean Partnership. In fact we signed a host of deals with Russia and Crimea during that visit.

BRICSPots devoted quite a bit of their coverage to this visit.

Russia,India ink raft of deals including Crimea trade push | The BRICS Post

Even as the European Union is considering widening its ban on investment in Crimea, Russia and India on Thursday signed a memorandum of understanding (MoU) to boost trade between India and the Crimean region during President Putin's New Delhi visit.

The agreement was signed by Crimean Prime Minister Sergei Aksyonov and Gul Kripalani, chairman of the Indian-Crimean Partnership. The Kremlin has received support from both New Delhi and Beijing in the face of western sanctions over Russia's annexation of Crime.

The Crimea agreement with New Delhi will boost joint projects in "engineering, pharmaceuticals, agriculture and tourism to information technology, microelectronics and industrial parks", said a Russian government press release.

Russian President Vladimir Putin met Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Thursday in the Indian capital where the two sides inked crucial energy deals, including Rosneft's 10-year oil delivery contract of 10 million tons per year with India.

"We have a strategic partnership that is incomparable. Russia our foremost defence partner since decades," said Modi at a joint press conference following talks with Putin.

Russia and India have agreed on the construction of at least 12 new nuclear energy blocks within the next 20 years. This includes two new blocks for the existing Kudankulam Nuclear Power Plant in India's southern state of Tamil Nadu in 2016.

India has agreed to expeditiously identify a second site, in addition to the existing unit at Kudankulam in southern India for Russian-designed nuclear power units in India, said Indian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Syed Akbaruddin.

"At Summit India-Russia agree on Strategic Vision to strengthen cooperation in peaceful uses of Atomic Energy," tweeted Akbaruddin.

The Indian Prime Minister also said in Thursday press conference that "Energy security is critical, for India's economic development and creating jobs. Russia is also a key partner in this area."

"We cooperate in research reactors, a new generation of reactors, including the use of thorium as a fuel; we consider the possibility of cooperation in uranium extraction, its enrichment. Today we can say that the cooperation between Russia and India has an absolutely strategic character," said Russia's state nuclear corporation, Rosatom head Sergei Kiriyenko.

The Russian Direct Investment Fund and India's infrastructure investor IDFC also announced that the two entities will invest $1 billion in hydroelectric projects in India.

The vast array of deals signed including partnership with Crimea comes weeks ahead of US President Barack Obama's visit to India. Obama has insisted on US attempts to "isolate" Putin internationally and expose Russia to a spiralling trade war with the west.
India has firmly signalled it's intent to support Russian position on Crimea and flashed two-fingers to EU and US.

The Obama visit was also hyped up and played up by the #MediaPIMPS, all angling for a US visa and some crumbs thrown their way by the US Govt. Non-events were hyped up, while much substantive efforts brushed under the carpet.

At this moment Russia too understands the importance of ties with India and China.

Regarding our ties with China, they can get better with time, provided the mistrust goes down. Festering border disputes do not help, neither do Pearls of Strings and M-11 missiles.
 

Tshering22

Sikkimese Saber
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
7,869
Likes
23,263
Country flag
In my limited understanding, the petro dollar will continue to dominate the world for sometime more. USA is not going anywhere and they are still the fountainhead of all the R&D and economic power. They dominate the world's companies like no other not just in terms of making the Arabs sell oil but in any technological platform. Their heavy industry capability, military industrial complex, software development, IP on medicine and pharmaceuticals etc. It is simply a system that has been created.

To create an alternate system would mean a coordination better than Americans in getting the entire industrial complex of that country to a new level.

China is being realistic that USD will continue to lead the world as a global tender. However, when big economies start buying oil in different currencies, it will change. If China buying the entire $400 billion worth of oil and gas from Russia in Ruble, it will change the game. Similarly, if India agrees to the $30 billion pipeline and maybe signed a $100 billion + oil contract with Russia which would entail a Rupee-Ruble engagement, that would have a serious impact on the exchange rate of dollar. China and India together make up for a massive, massive oil consumption outside USA since Americans are now self-reliant on oil production.

The seat of American power is not just petrodollar ALONE but being the fountainhead of innovation.
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
26,919
Likes
98,471
Country flag
Will India And Russia Go Over To Settling Accounts In National Currencies?

Rathin Roy, "ŽDirector and Chief Executive at National Institute of Public Finance and Policy, Ministry of Finance, New Delhi, who is visiting Moscow these days, deems a transition to the settlement of accounts between India and Russia in national currencies appropriate and promising.

Economists and businessmen in Russia and India are increasingly seeing this way as an opportunity to give an impetus to the very modest current volume (just $10 billion per year) of bilateral trade and economic relations.

In December last year, before visiting India, Russian President Vladimir Putin said that the question of a possible transition to national currencies is highly relevant. This will be mutually beneficial for the two countries especially in view of the start of deliveries of liquefied natural gas from Russia to India from the year 2017.

At a Russian-Indian forum dedicated to trade and economic relations between the two countries held at the Institute of Oriental Studies, Russian Academy of Sciences, Rathin Roy recalled the interest of the BRICS countries in reducing the use of the US dollar. Russia and China are already settling accounts in national currencies for a number of products.


In this regard, China has moved beyond all of the BRICS countries. By the end of 2014 yuan has become the seventh most popular world currency in international payments. China signed a preliminary agreement or has already started settling accounts with more than 170 countries using yuan as a payment instrument. China has signed currency swap agreements with another 27 countries to the extent of nearly $ 3 trillion yuan. More than 30 countries use yuan as a reserve currency.

However, not all experts feel so enthusiastic over the prospect of the phasing out of the dollar. According to Ruslan Grinberg, director of the Institute of Economics, Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia and India must have a very balanced approach to the possibility of transition to settlements in rubles and rupees. At the meeting at the Institute of Oriental Studies, he expressed the opinion that at this stage in terms of volatility of the ruble, the use of national currencies in Russian-Indian trade can create more risks than chances.

Yet most of the experts as well as those involved directly in the Russian-Indian trade and economic cooperation, lean towards the feasibility of transition to settlements in national currencies. At the recent international exhibition "Prodexpo-2015" in Moscow Indian tea exporting companies and other food manufacturers spoke about their plans to develop trade with Russia in this light in the near future. Russian wholesale companies buying medicines, paints, products of cotton, wool, leather and other goods in India are inclined to switch to settlement of accounts with Indian suppliers in national currencies.




Read more: http://hindi.sputniknews.com/russia/20150218/1013485065.html#ixzz3S7ykYVj6
 

pmaitra

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2009
Messages
33,262
Likes
19,594
There are two aspects to it

1. China itself is quite dependent on Western markets for its economy, at the same time they are deeply aware of the pitfalls of becoming too reliant on them. The claim that China has stepped in and arrested the decline of the ruble is not very clear. How exactly did they do that? Will India and Russia push forth a bilateral ruble-rupee trade arrangement? This would be especially favourable in the transactions involving arms and weapons systems.

2. What steps has Russia taken to ameliorate the oil price crash and western sanctions?
First of all, good to see you back after a while, buddy. Hope all is well. :)

You are correct that PRC is very much dependent on the west, but they are gradually moving away from western dependency, started getting rid of US Treasury bonds, taking up projects in Africa, giving out development loans, and trying to make the RMB the de facto reserve currency within a small clique of nations.

Russia has stopped or cut down on imports of farm produce and expensive cars from the west, started importing from alternative suppliers, while Russian agricutural sector is witnessing slow but steady increase in output. The EEU, SCO, and BRICS, are two important politico-economic blocs that Russia is focusing on.

I'm perplexed as to why the current Government of India was sadist during the Putin visit and blushed so much when Obama came.
They've lost a big opportunity, the way their dealt (or not) with the Russian leader.

Ideally we should be working overtime to improve our relations with China, an upcoming power with which we share not only territorial borders but also civilizational values. However tough and risky it might seem, is the more prudent way. Looking away from China at this time would be like an emotionally blind and irrational child unwilling to engage someone they've fought with, even when the needs are telling otherwise.
Given our past with China I can understand why it might still be difficult to make those very essential moves.

But what gives with Russian equation? Totally unexplainable inertia on our part.
I don't see a single Indo-Russian move on economic front. Are we going on in stealth mode?
The articles above don't mention India even when they talk about BRICS.
That tells me something. We're not in the game yet.

Regards,
Virendra
Some of your concerns might be addressed in this article by Saurav Jha entitled "In India Putin Got All the Political Assurances He Came For." On top of that, I concur with this post by @mayfair.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top