Civil war in Ukraine

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jouni

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I think Europe does not even want to be in center stage. We just want to be well off and live in peace. Focus on finer things in life, like Riesling wines and good cheese. God knows we have seen our share of war and turmoil in the past.

Also we do not need any tiger leaps in economy, moderate growth is enough.
 
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sgarg

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Akim told it was a computer error this 99.9%. Russia recognized the vote and now their media is quite low key about it. Glad to see that you still have energy though ;).
Russia recognized the vote as a tactical move. There is election in separatist area. What will Kiev do now??

The sum total of votes around 15.5 M is out of an electorate of 38 million. I just verified again. The Maths tell this is 40.8%. I have been telling you repeatedly that Kiev is very good in telling lies.

You and Akim always run away when data is presented to you.

A lot of people either did not vote or were not able to vote. Most people opposed to Kiev Nazis simply did not vote due to fear.
 

bhramos

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Message voenkora Alexander Kotz. "Therefore, land safely opened in Donetsk. And the people went to vote. On one of the plots forward Zaharchenko. Zaharchenko voted by 125 site. The first ballots in the box. The observer from the Russian deputy A. Yushchenko : Together with us observers arrived from the UK, Poland, France, the Baltic states. The streets of Donetsk in the fresh tracks of shoe. Looks technique strengthened the position of the night in case of attempts to disrupt the elections by force. CEC DNI: remotely (by mail, the Internet) has voted almost 48 thousand people. Elective Committees were opened in temporary accommodation centers in Rostov, Belgorod and Voronezh regions. "

 

sgarg

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If occupied DNR declares independence and Russia supports it...
Moreover, oil and gas are the only major Russian products which have been the need and demand in Europe. In a few years they are not here anymore, and I doubt anyone will miss Putin or self-Russia either. Quite likely the Russia under this leadership the national economy will drop in economic size and importance (GDP) estimates are to a medium-sized developing country level.
You are fairly good at propaganda. Let me start with that you cannot predict the future as you have no means or expertise to do it.

The alternative sources of energy are already being developed. However petroleum is far more than energy. Petroleum is the feed-stock to a variety of chemical industries. The importance of petroleum and gas does not diminish due to lower use in energy production.

Russia will survive even if there is no trade between Russia and EU. Russia can develop its own agriculture which is not difficult as it has the land and the population is small. The technology is already available.

Russia cannot have any shortage of consumer goods as Asia produces plenty. There is no fear of going back to USSR times.

The military equipment can be produced through joint ventures between other countries. For example Brahmos cruise missile seeker and software is developed by India. Russia does benefit from this collaboration as the resulting product improves its own capability.

Russia will do far better than your expectations. Russia does not need EU at all.
 

bhramos

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Message from the volunteer with the callsign "Square". "We got another trophy. ukry thrown stalled on the roadside tank. repairmen Brigade pulled it and put it on the move. Now he is a New Russia. And some fighters managed to get hold of rare rifles" Val ", sorry that without optical sights. The range of armed militia is becoming more diverse. "

 

Akim

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https://pp.vk.me/c623618/v623618164/8559/L4FS1fpqoDc.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]

Most of the people is the media.

[video] [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsRy09ld9jE#t=48[/url][/video]
 

jouni

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Russia recognized the vote as a tactical move. There is election in separatist area. What will Kiev do now??

The sum total of votes around 15.5 M is out of an electorate of 38 million. I just verified again. The Maths tell this is 40.8%. I have been telling you repeatedly that Kiev is very good in telling lies.

You and Akim always run away when data is presented to you.

A lot of people either did not vote or were not able to vote. Most people opposed to Kiev Nazis simply did not vote due to fear.
I am not running away from data. My viewpoint to matters is just different from yours, I see this whole situation as a modern version of Russian aggressions against small neighbours 1939-40. Only difference is that current pacifist Europe has so far only used soft methods against it, well actually Europe did not help in '39-40 either.
 

Akim

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Huge queues. This is because the militants issued simultaneously social cards.
 

sgarg

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I am not running away from data. My viewpoint to matters is just different from yours, I see this whole situation as a modern version of Russian aggressions against small neighbours 1939-40. Only difference is that current pacifist Europe has so far only used soft methods against it, well actually Europe did not help in '39-40 either.
There was no Superpower USA in 1939. The British empire was still alive in 1939.
You forget the role of USA in this crisis.
USSR was ruling a much larger area and population in 1939.
Russia is no comparison. The objectives of 1939 USSR and today's Russia are completely different. The objective of today's Russia is to build an adequate defence against NATO.
I agree that Russia cannot take on NATO. NATO is too big compared to Russia. This is the reason Putin is forced to lean on Russian speakers. Russia is using the same method which West has used repeatedly in other areas of Europe to divide Warsaw pact nations.
 

sgarg

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@jouni,

I see Ukraine as a clear loser. Ukraine's military is unable to hold on to its gains. Soon the Ukraine military will abandon all positions that it gained in ATO offensive.
It wont be easy for Ukraine troops to fight in winter.
The Russians have learnt from Western tactics and have built weapons that can defeat this tactics. Ukrainian armour has proved inadequate in protecting its soldiers. So it has become infantry and special ops war, in which Ukraine has no advantage over separatists.

Ukraine air force cannot fly safely due to SAM threat. This is a big achievement of Russia that it has made UkAF inoperable.
I disagree that Ukraine is suffering due to money or weapons. Ukraine has both money and weapons. West has already provided 30B USD this year, and Kiev has been getting military assistance quietly.
 
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AVERAGE INDIAN

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found this video that people claimed to be polite people in Donetsk entering Donetsk :laugh: after being polite in Crimea




 
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Akim

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Biscuits Nuland rests)))

It's already called "veg elections".
 
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