History of Central and Eastern Europe

[Damian]

But in case of poland, they have to face germans and russians only. I don't think some one like spain or france would come to poland as conquerors. Thats the tyranny of geography, even for us we have pakistan and china. Hopefully poland gets sufficient time to prepare. Are you people looking to build your own plane?? Don't just rely on f-16/f-35.

Building own aircraft is considered as too expensive, in more distand future perhaps yes, although budget for R&D is still too low.

Polish Arms Industry focus on other development:

1) Poland recently become one of European leaders in development of artillery systems like 120mm automatic gun-mortar "Rak", 122mm MLRS "Langusta" and 155mm gun-howitzer (tracked) "Krab" that is still in developmental phase (turret and weapon system is ready, now hull needs to be redesigned for stronger engine and new transmission, it is also considered to install turret on new chassis based on modular, unified platform that is under development right now). In development there is also long range, big calliber MLRS system "Homar" which can be called an analog to US M270 MLRS, and wheeled 155mm gun-howitzer "Kryl".

2) Poland is building it's own Armored Fighting Vehicles industrial and scientific base, the main points of this program, named "National Armor Program" are:
- Modernization of 128 Leopard 2 tanks currently in service to Leopard 2PL standard, and purchase another batch of 128 Leopard 2 tanks in A4 and A5 standard, that will also be modernized to Leopard 2PL standard. It is also desired to build own service center for these tanks, so we will not be anymore dependant on Germany, at least not as much as today. And there is allways some probability that MoD want to eventually even purchase licence for Leopard 2 production as option B in case of new modular platform will not be sufficent enough for new tank application, tough this is only a possibility, MoD did not confirmed such plans.
- Research and Development program for modular, unified, multipurpose platform, that will be base for new tank, infantry fighting vehicle, and other types of vehicles.
- Research and Development programs for different armored wheeled platforms.
- Also WZM company soon will build a production line for family of unified engines with power ranging from 135HP to 1500HP, these engines of course will not be developed in Poland. Currently a favorite in competition is German company MTU, but everything depends on several factors, like willingness of original manufacturer for transfer of technology.

3) Poland is in the final phase of development for future soldier program codenamed "ISW Tytan" (Titan), and development of new generation small arms, among them modular rifle system MSBS (4 variants for standard and bullpup configurations), revolver granade launcher RGP-40, new disposable RPG system, new service pistol, new underbarrel granade launcher (in so called bullpup configuration) for rifles and such things.

4) There is a struggle to purchase or develop own new Navy vessels, however this is one of the most expensive programs, and problematic, like development of our corvette "Gawron" which ended in to redesigning this vessel for other purpose, that is cheaper.

5) Development of new anti-air and anti-ballistic missiles system, it will be composed from several smaller systems, like "Grom", "Błyskawica" or bigger systems like one codenamed "Wisła".
The smaller systems will be developed in Poland, bigger ones will be purchased from our allies, considered systems are Patriot PAC-2/3, Mica VL etc.

And there are other developments.

 

[nrupatunga]

@Damian Thanks for insights on various military initiatives by poland. But wasn't there a aviation industry prior to WW-II in poland. Though am not sure about quantity, i remember reading that some planes produced in poland were also exported. Though i don't know whether these planes were designed by poles themselves or french who might have given license to produce in poland. Poland did buy planes from french in their early days, right??

I think not just poles even czechs also had their own design bureaus. But no decent country should over rely on other countries for their defense unless one is fit for nothing countries like the gcc club is.

 

[pmaitra]

This is your choice, if you preffer to call smarter people and their work trash, or live as a slave, then I am perfectly ok with this. I preffer to be free men, that do not need to obey orders of criminals (and leaders of Soviet Union were criminals mostly) and imbeciles that don't have even slightest idea about economy.

There are lot of people who do not have the slightest idea about economy. Take the Euro-Crisis for example.

Besides this, compare the economy fo countries like USA where you have capitalism, and economy of North Korea where you have pure socialism, where people have higher standard of life?

USA is a socialist state, and it is more socialist than Russia today.

Even China to get out of economic collapse adopted capitalism, however still in deformed form, far from ideal of capitalism.

Isn't that what Karl Marx said - If Communism does not work, revert back to Capitalism?

Socialism is a cancer on humanity.

Yes, the socialism practiced in Western Europe today - take form Peter, give to Paul, policy; is a cancer to humanity. It is scroungerism, not socialism.

Not to mention that Karl Marx that created socialism was pure rascist, I am amazed how you people can embrace such sick ideology, that perceived you as underhuman.

Karl Marx did not create socialism. The earliest forms of modern day socialism came from the French Revolution (Equality, Liberty, Fraternity). Karl Marx is known for Das Kapital, and along with Fredrick Engels, for the Communist Manifesto.

 

[Damian]

@Damian Thanks for insights on various military initiatives by poland. But wasn't there a aviation industry prior to WW-II in poland. Though am not sure about quantity, i remember reading that some planes produced in poland were also exported. Though i don't know whether these planes were designed by poles themselves or french who might have given license to produce in poland. Poland did buy planes from french in their early days, right??

Yes, we have our own designs, however we didn't had time to fully start research and development and production process of more modern designs.

I think not just poles even czechs also had their own design bureaus. But no decent country should over rely on other countries for their defense unless one is fit for nothing countries like the gcc club is.

This is truth, this is why we have our own military industry buildup recently, in fact we started in 1990's, however economic situation back then was not in favor for such investition, only the last decade bring significant economic growth, and significant investitions have only few years right now. But there are plans, there is promising development, who knows, maybe after a decade or two, we will have a significant military industry, that will be capable to create our own fighter jet.

Oh one more, there is significant program to acuire new helicopters, more than 100, nearly 200 I think, majority will be utility helicopter for various tasks, but around 32 are planned to be gunships, this subprogram is codenamed "Kruk" (or Raven in english), of course obvious question is what design will be choosen.

There are lot of people who do not have the slightest idea about economy. Take the Euro-Crisis for example.

And I said earlier why there is crisis in Eurozone, the reason is Euro itself.

USA is a socialist state, and it is more socialist than Russia today.

No, not really, just like in western Europe there is struggle between left wing and right wing, hopefully the latter will win.

Isn't that what Karl Marx said - If Communism does not work, revert back to Capitalism?

Oh, a single time his minds healthy part tried to fight with his madness?

Yes, the socialism practiced in Western Europe today - take form Peter, give to Paul, policy; is a cancer to humanity. It is scroungerism, not socialism.

But this is the very essence of socialism, take from rich, give to poor and make them equally... poor in the end.

Karl Marx did not create socialism. The earliest forms of modern day socialism came from the French Revolution (Equality, Liberty, Fraternity). Karl Marx is known for Das Kapital, and along with Fredrick Engels, for the Communist Manifesto.

French Revolution did not created socialism, it can be traced as one of the founding factors of ieology, but not what created it, it was Marx with Engles who created this madness.

Which is kinda funny, that people with ideals for improving menkind create the most evil ideologies that in the end means death of thousands or millions of innocent people.

 

[pmaitra]

Yes, we have our own designs, however we didn't had time to fully start research and development and production process of more modern designs.



This is truth, this is why we have our own military industry buildup recently, in fact we started in 1990's, however economic situation back then was not in favor for such investition, only the last decade bring significant economic growth, and significant investitions have only few years right now. But there are plans, there is promising development, who knows, maybe after a decade or two, we will have a significant military industry, that will be capable to create our own fighter jet.

Oh one more, there is significant program to acuire new helicopters, more than 100, nearly 200 I think, majority will be utility helicopter for various tasks, but around 32 are planned to be gunships, this subprogram is codenamed "Kruk" (or Raven in english), of course obvious question is what design will be choosen.



And I said earlier why there is crisis in Eurozone, the reason is Euro itself.



No, not really, just like in western Europe there is struggle between left wing and right wing, hopefully the latter will win.



Oh, a single time his minds healthy part tried to fight with his madness?



But this is the very essence of socialism, take from rich, give to poor and make them equally... poor in the end.



French Revolution did not created socialism, it can be traced as one of the founding factors of ieology, but not what created it, it was Marx with Engles who created this madness.

Which is kinda funny, that people with ideals for improving menkind create the most evil ideologies that in the end means death of thousands or millions of innocent people.

Ok, so in your post, from an optimistic point of view, I think we have some areas of agreement. Since this is rare, it calls for celebration.