Worrisome rise of Chinese nationalism

[Ray]

You want me tell you what Indian should do? LOL, do not take my question too serious, by asking that question, i was just reminding you of what Indian did when they were facing the similar situation.

I think you don't understand English. No what India has to do. What China has to do.

Why do i need to refute him, before posting this article, you have already agree with him. This man had exactly the same mindset with you Indians, which is totally different from the mindset of the rest of Chinese. How can i rebute the GREAT MINDSET of Indian? Not to mention i dare not.

He has the mindset of Indians?

Good for him?

How has he not been refuted by the Chinese? Why has he not been in a re-education camp as is done for all who do not toe the CCP line?

Or maybe he is in one already and we do not know!!!!!!

 

[Ray]

In Lethalforce's post, he said the world(USA) will react, so we know who is big daddy here.
it was lethalforce to compare China with Iraq, not me, get your fact straight, can't believe you India can twist the fact like this even the fact just happen, maybe this is your biggest advantage after all, boasting, twisting and exagerating.
who is shivering in his pants? he declared USA will use excuses to "deal" with China like what it did to Iraq. I am asking him why not India does this for the higer noble purpose. Or maybe you can tell me, since China and it's communism ruling is so evil why India, the holly biggest democracy, not to stand out and take the initiative to terminate the evilness?
You are doing only talking, he started all this, why asking as you know nothing? don't pretend to be innocent that makes you look so fake
afraid of another 1962?

You are the fake.

No, we are not afraid of 1962.

It is you who is afraid of another Vietnam and this time it could be worse with Tibet and Xinjiang up in arms!!

So, quit acting cute!

 

[Ray]

Every chinese is free to to express his opinion while so many westerners believe they are not.

Sure.

****

Hu Jia, 34, was convicted of "inciting subversion of state power and the socialist system", his lawyer said.

He has long campaigned for the environment, religious freedom and for the rights of people with HIV and Aids.

A former university professor who published letters to Chinese leaders and advocated multi-party democracy has been jailed for 10 years for subversion of state power.

***
A Rights Group says the sentence was handed down on Guo Quan by a court in eastern coastal Jiangsu province.

The sentencing comes at an especially sensitive time -- after China celebrates 60 years of Communist rule this month, 20 years after troops crushed pro-democracy protests in Bejing.

****

Wang Rongquing, a Chinese human rights activist, was sentenced to six years in prison by a court in Hangzhou in western China, fellow activists said Thursday.According to the China Human Rights Defenders (CHRD), Wang, 65, was found guilty by the Hangzhou Intermediate People’s Court of “subversion of state power”.

The dissident had been accused of trying to build up the banned China Democracy Party, which is regarded as an “enemy organisation” by the state.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I was told that USA is a democratic nation which certainly loves peace. But based on this comment, i have to say i am wrong. USA will initiate a war with a country just because USA may not be the NO.1 anymore. No wonder the CCP always says China should develop its military just in case some country would use force to stop the rise of China.

Mrs Nimo USA is a democracy that does not mean it is USA will not go to war, let's say one day USA decides to dring democracy to China like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan what would China feel about this democratization? But I agree with your point every nation should have a good military and defend itself you never know who your enemy(s) maybe. One good example of this is NAZI Germany who signed a treaty with Russia then Hitler turned around and invaded Russia. USA has gone to war for much less than losing the number one spot, so losing the number one spot would be more than reason enough for war with or without a reason. Historically every country/empire in the top spot lost the spot by a military defeat by the #2 slot nation, USA will just try to prevent this pattern from happening.

 

[Sumku]

cNo on is killing nationalism. Its how the nationalism is being molded that the issue. The Chinese nationalism is being molded by the CCP for its own benefit.

There are not 1000 ways on how to "mold nationalism" and as with every single god damm entity on planet, every thing/every idea has its both up as well as down.

While we are studying/debating the impact of this so called Chinese nationalism on China's neighbors,the negative aspects of it are quite clearly visible however, has anyone tried to study/observe the positive impact of the same on China's production/economy etc? I am sure that there are more positive impact than negative ones.

 

[no smoking]

I did not write the Chinese history books,

The Chinese did.

The commentary is by a Chinese professor. Obviously, if it was bogus, he would be in a re-education camp or a jail/ concentration camp.

Therefore, even if you laugh your ass sore, I can't help it. The Chinese Professor in no way could be an Indian or a Briton. He is a Han all the way and no Indian or a Briton looks or could pass off in mentality as a Han.

So, you amuse!

I just wanted to know the TRUTH. But then I do understand it is difficult for you to do or say anything beyond what the CCP tell you to state.

Oh, no, I don't blame you for reading this chinese professor's book. I don't blame you at all.

I just suggest you to read more chinese books holding various stances.

After reading your saying in IDF and WAB, I must say you read too many books about chinese history, which make you incapable of telling the difference between the day beofore yesterday and today.

Chinese culture has been changing for thousands years, whenever the environment changed, the culture will make adjustment. Today, the concept "world" to china is complete different from the one before 1910, the reform of chinese culture has been lasting for almost a century. So, any effort to use history to explain today's event in china will be a failure.

If you realy want to understand today's chinese, get rid of your chinese professor's book, go to search the chinese forms, those are written only in chinese. There, you can find your answer.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

In Lethalforce's post, he said the world(USA) will react, so we know who is big daddy here.
it was lethalforce to compare China with Iraq, not me, get your fact straight, can't believe you India can twist the fact like this even the fact just happen, maybe this is your biggest advantage after all, boasting, twisting and exagerating.
who is shivering in his pants? he declared USA will use excuses to "deal" with China like what it did to Iraq. I am asking him why not India does this for the higer noble purpose. Or maybe you can tell me, since China and it's communism ruling is so evil why India, the holly biggest democracy, not to stand out and take the initiative to terminate the evilness?
You are doing only talking, he started all this, why asking as you know nothing? don't pretend to be innocent that makes you look so fake
afraid of another 1962?

Don't tell me you mistook yourself to be the big daddy, you are the one twisting what I have wrote around, I stated like Iraq USA can manufacture any excuse if they wanted to go to war with China, I did not follow the rest of you silly rant that led to 1962 but why don't you bring it on?

 

[nimo_cn]

He has the mindset of Indians?

Doesn't he? If you don't agree with his mindset, would you post his article?

Good for him?

Yes, his article can be always quoted by people like you.

How has he not been refuted by the Chinese?

He has been refuted by many many Chinese, you just ignore that. I will not refute him in English, as you have mentioned, i cannot read english.

Why has he not been in a re-education camp as is done for all who do not toe the CCP line?

Or maybe he is in one already and we do not know!!!!!!

Hmm, how familiar to us this kind of sarcasm is.
You just remind me that maybe I should suggest CCP shut him up, so that there is another evidence showing the suppression of CCP.

 

[nimo_cn]

Mrs Nimo USA is a democracy that does not mean it is USA will not go to war, let's say one day USA decides to dring democracy to China like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan what would China feel about this democratization?

Please address me as Mr, thanks in advance. Chinese ladies won't stay here, they will be scared away by the hostility which fills this forum, especially by your no-good-reason war with China. That is off the topic, let's get back to it.

People from all the countries except USA will be amused when they are told USA invaded Iraqi to promote democracy, including Indians in this forum.

Bring democracy to China by force in the way they did in Iraqi and Afghanistan?
What a brilliant idea!
But LETHALFORCE, have you ever thought about this, if American succeed, the title of "the biggest democracy in the solar system" will be given to China. Will you envy that?

As a Chinese, i will feel really really unhappy, how come it is USA to help us finish this democratization? Is there another country who will do it instead of USA?

USA has gone to war for much less than losing the number one spot, so losing the number one spot would be more than reason enough for war with or without a reason. Historically every country/empire in the top spot lost the spot by a military defeat by the #2 slot nation, USA will just try to prevent this pattern from happening.

So you are justifying your no-good-reason war theory. Are you Indian? Does this theory apply to India?

 

[Yusuf]

[mod]Nimo, this is the only forum in the world that allows everyone to express themselves freely and not be banned unlike other forums. No one is hostile here. All are expressing their thoughts. And yes Yang was the very first Chinese on the forum and a lady at that. She has a lot of friends on this forum. [/mod]

 

[redragon]

from now on, I will focus only on posting news and photos and try to avoid direct debate with other members.
Mod can delete this post by discretion

 

[Ray]

Oh, no, I don't blame you for reading this chinese professor's book. I don't blame you at all.

I just suggest you to read more chinese books holding various stances.

After reading your saying in IDF and WAB, I must say you read too many books about chinese history, which make you incapable of telling the difference between the day beofore yesterday and today.

Chinese culture has been changing for thousands years, whenever the environment changed, the culture will make adjustment. Today, the concept "world" to china is complete different from the one before 1910, the reform of chinese culture has been lasting for almost a century. So, any effort to use history to explain today's event in china will be a failure.

If you realy want to understand today's chinese, get rid of your chinese professor's book, go to search the chinese forms, those are written only in chinese. There, you can find your answer.

History is what allows one to understand a nation, its people and its psychology.

It changes with time, but it does not change drastically. The basic essence, ethos continues.

Let us look at the Han culture.

The Hans were basically from North of the Yellow River.

Then came the Spring and Autumn period ((春秋時代). The Hundred Schools of Thought (諸子百家/诸子百家) of Chinese philosophy blossomed (Remember Mao and his let a Hundred Flower Bloom? History repeats).

You will recall Emperor Wu (Han Wudi 漢武帝/汉武帝) consolidated and extended the Chinese empire by pushing back the Xiongnu (sometimes identified with the Huns) into the steppes of modern Inner Mongolia, wresting from them the modern areas of Gansu, Ningxia and Qinghai. (What is happening now? Indian territory is being called 'South Tibet'. History repeats!).

Checked how the Hand culture was spread to the non Hans South of the Yellow River and the Yis (barbarians, cooked and uncooked) were made into Hans? (History repeats itself - Tibet and Xinjiang is being applied the same treatment).

Look, I could go on.

Please spare me the pious platitudes!

China is inscrutable to many. Yes, I do read books on China. It is a fascinating country and unless one reads and knows about it. Very insidious history that if not understood, will bring grief to the peaceful!

It is true I should read the Communist Chinese literature and be indoctrinated. I do read. I read Mao and his guerilla tactics. A genius!

I also read about the Cultural Revolution and how he so cleverly eliminated his opponents.

 

[Yusuf]

from now on, I will focus only on posting news and photos and try to avoid direct debate with other members.
Mod can delete this post by discretion

Well that beats the whole purpose of any forum which is there to debate.

 

[nimo_cn]

Mrs Nimo USA is a democracy that does not mean it is USA will not go to war, let's say one day USA decides to dring democracy to China like they did in Iraq and Afghanistan what would China feel about this democratization? But I agree with your point every nation should have a good military and defend itself you never know who your enemy(s) maybe. One good example of this is NAZI Germany who signed a treaty with Russia then Hitler turned around and invaded Russia. USA has gone to war for much less than losing the number one spot, so losing the number one spot would be more than reason enough for war with or without a reason. Historically every country/empire in the top spot lost the spot by a military defeat by the #2 slot nation, USA will just try to prevent this pattern from happening.

I forget to thank you. Thank you fo telling me the real reason that USA want to have a war with China. Their intention is to stop China from rising, USA want to maitain their hegemony, they are not interested in democarcy promotion at all. That explains a lot, including war in Iraqi and Afghanistan.

So next time when talking about the similar issues, please cut the democracy crap. so that we can save our time.

 

[nimo_cn]

Yusuf,
Thanks for correcting me, i am sorry i am a little exaggerating.
I appreciate the tolerance of this forum, that why i am still here. But some members here hold very deep hatred to China, that is not deniable.

Again thanks for reminding me.

 

[Yusuf]

Nimo, with the history that is behind us, Indians obviously hold a grudge against China. But then, you have to admit that apart from the other issues, all informed and educated Indians appreciate the progress China has made economically in the last few years.

 

[masterofsea]

All invaders and colonialists kill and suppress.

However, it is because you do not understand the Indian mindset, you will not understand.

Since you have NO religion you will not understand the mental power that spiritualism generates in those who have religion.

Unlike China, where bloodshed and mayhem is required to change regimes and mindset, the power of India is in the spirit of 'ahimsa'. Mahatma Gandhi with his non violent message, forced the leading colonial power of those times, to quit!

He is an icon even today for the method of forcing a regime change by peaceful and non violent manner.

So is Mao a regime changer. But through bloodshed and rife and international disgust!

Two different manner!

The choice is yours!

Mao is remembered for bloodshed, brutality (Long March, Cultural Revolution and everything to most in this world as unnatural and anti civilised and the Mahatma for his peaceful non violent revolution for justice!)

Imagine how many died in the Cultural Revolution! Those who died were not Chinese? Were they all rogues and thugs? So many rogues and thugs in China? Is that what you want me to believe? That China is a country of rogues and thugs and cleansing has to be done?

Yet, both have contributed to history!

Thomas Jefferson said:"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants".

India people got independent without violence.Theresults is that india after independence is same with the British india.

The only difference is the british governor was removed.

Indian people still ruled by Brahmen and their proxies.The low caste people' son are still low caste people.

The social status were inherited,which is the biggest inequality.

It tell us everything that India have the world's most wealthy people and at the same time india have the largest group of people under the international poverty line.

Fortunately,Indian people are devoted follower of gods.So the extravagant rulers could enjoy their ruling without concerning the poor farmers/dalits/slumdogs is going to overthrow them.

 

[Yusuf]

Indian independence without violence and bloodshed? mate you need to go read about it before coming up with such stupid statements. Indian method was non violent, but the British had no such methods. A lot of Indian blood was shed to get independence.

As you put it,"a low caste" woman is the Chief Minister of the largest state in India. A sikh is the PM of the country. A woman is the President. A foreigner turned Indian is called the first lady of Indian politics. The former presidetn was a Muslim.
So shut up about who rules who in India. India is a plural society. Yes it has problems but then it still runs in a pluralistic fashion.
When you get an Uigher or a Tibetan as a president, then come back to me.

 

[masterofsea]

As you put it,"a low caste" woman is the Chief Minister of the largest state in India. A sikh is the PM of the country. A woman is the President. A foreigner turned Indian is called the first lady of Indian politics. The former presidetn was a Muslim.
So shut up about who rules who in India. India is a plural society. Yes it has problems but then it still runs in a pluralistic fashion.
When you get an Uigher or a Tibetan as a president, then come back to me.

did you noticed the words "proxies" in my post?

You have many politicians from diverse social group.do those politicians represent the poor people's benefits?

the politicians run campaign with who's money?Can poor people afford it?

 

[Vladimir79]

I was told that USA is a democratic nation which certainly loves peace. But based on this comment, i have to say i am wrong. USA will initiate a war with a country just because USA may not be the NO.1 anymore. No wonder the CCP always says China should develop its military just in case some country would use force to stop the rise of China.

Amerikans aren't trying to stop China's rise, they are fueling it. Their strategy is to build up Chinese economy so they will buy more of their goods and can make a huge profit off the biggest potential market in the world. They hope that capitalism will take hold and bring about politcal change that comes with economic prosperity. To the disgust of Amerikan policy planners, they're finding out that China has no intention of opening their markets to fair competition or abiding by WTO rules. Instead, they plan to IP theft and create their own subsidised domestic market and leave USA out of the loop screwing them the whole time. China now holds so much Amerikan debt, there is little they can do about it.