Why is GOI mum on HAL's near monopoly?

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by Rahul Singh, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    I was wondering if we can have discussion on Government's stand on HAL's near monopoly in aerospace manufacturing. Needless to mention about the negative effects and outcomes of any kind of monopoly and one that is enjoyed by HAL is making situation severe beyond critical. With its hands twice full and still loading, isn't government risking military preparedness of nation, in other words seriously compromising with the national security? How long will government stay mum on this and let situation deteriorate further? Most importantly, how long can we as a nation afford such situation to escalate and get worse? Isn't it high time for government to think about diversifying assembly/manufacturing of M-MRCA? Won't it be better if Government encourages and support setting of a parallel assembly line owned by a private company or consortium by acquiring 49% stakes for first few years or until company starts making profit? Your views, please!
     
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  3. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    A consortium of private companies with 49 % stakes , would be a good idea .
     
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  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    India has a huge aerospace industry space.

    It is time that private Indian companies be allowed to go into partnership with foreign aerospace industry and present aircraft etc that India requires.

    I believe Mahindra has put an aircraft on sale in India with foreign collaboration!
     
  5. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    HAL will not ALLOW Others to MAKE Su 30 mki , FGFA , MMRCA

    Why ,because HAL have the RIGHT to make new and modern planes after making cute toys for a long time

    ( Even a 15 day strike will send Chills down the spine of GOI :laugh:)

    And private sector will NOT be interested in spending money in the assembly lines of
    Hawks, Jagaurs and Mig 27 and Basic Trainers

    LCA Mk 1 should be an interesting starting point for Public Pvt Partnership in Aircraft Manufacturing

    But first the production model should be ready

    In fact LCA composites are being made by the private sector

    The HAL has an arguement that GOI is dragging its FEET when it comes to more and Fresh investment

    And in India the private sector has only been co opted as a "part" of large strategic projects

    The total control is of the GOI and the concerned minitstry / department

    For eg L & T was involved in Arihant N Submarine

    Even ISRO gets some components from the private sector

    Private sector Shipyards like Pipavav and Army weapons like Artilerry and FICV are
    like the new territories for the private sector

    Let us see their performance there

    If in Future the MMRCA and FGFA are unduly delayed by HAL ; ONLY then we can see a PVT
    manufacturer stepping in
     
  6. Zebra

    Zebra Senior Member Senior Member

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    There are few other divisions of HAL like Accessories , avionics , foundry & forge , marine gas and industrial turbines , overhaul , transport aircraft , helicopter divison and LCA . These are divisions in which HAL can work with Indian private companies .
     
  7. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Because monopoly can hide inefficiency and corruption? :rolleyes:

    Regards,
    Virendra
     
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  8. pankaj nema

    pankaj nema Senior Member Senior Member

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    In India policies are always flexible

    And in defence NOTHING is more important than Timely Delivery of arms and Ammunition

    But to criticise unfairly A defence PSU just because of some Motivated Articles in the media is totally wrong and unfair

    In the case of Navy the Ship yards are so overloaded that some small ships are being bought from Sri Lanka

    If HAL can stick to the Time schedules and manage its costs while maintaining the quality then HAL momopoly
    WILL continue ; WHether somebody likes it or NOT

    GOI has financed thousands of Loss making and USELESS PSUs in ALL sectors even in sectors like
    BREAD , Wrist watches , Textiles and Hotels

    HAL has given a FAR FAR better account of itself over the LAST 50 years as compared to
    other PSUs

    And we should not forget the EXISTING infrastructure created over the last 50 years
    that has to be FULLY Utilised

    Good Management and personnel will make HAL an even better performer
     
  9. Adux

    Adux Senior Member Senior Member

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    Maybe because Government of India owns HAL? There is no good monopoly like 'MY' monopoly!
     
  10. venkat

    venkat Regular Member

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    The thread is unfairly titled. Design and manufacture of high performance flying machines is no Maggie two minute noodle affair!!!!Fortunately in the name of PSUs enormous infra structures have been created which nobody in the private sector can match.HAL never tried to be a monopoly. Infact BHEL, Haridwar in a bid to break HAL monopoly, built a basic trainer aircraft called " SWATI" designed by DGCA in the 1990s. The aircraft crashed during its flight itself killing the pilot instantly. Structural failure was cited to be the reason behind the crash. The wings of the plane cracked near the joints to the fuselage. HAL is altogether a different company. Its performance depends on the socio,politico and economic scenario of our country. If the Govt bends towards USA,Russia gets peeved and it will try to screw on going projects in it s own way.. US of A which is afraid of its own shadow denies all the hi-tech items export to INDIA ,putting lengthy security measures,embargoes resulting very long design cycle times and lead times.Our planners never had a vision. Components,integrated circuits, various raw materials required for indigenous development are not available locally even now. every damn thing needs to be imported. For example Semiconductor complex, Chandigarh was established to make integrated circuits in the 1990's. After a devastating (sabotage???) fire, SCL went in to oblivion. Afterwards no efforts have been made by Govt to meet the demands of indian defence industry. No pvt sector came forward to establish semiconductor manufacturing industries, with all the big talk of privatization.Intel and other semiconductor giants have established facilities in Singapore, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia,Thailand,but not in India. US doesn't want India to have access to its high tech fab facilities and more over 24X7 water supply,power supply and 99-100% pure raw material supply are required for such fab facilities. what problems plaguing India are plaguing HAL too!! During the s/w boom in the 2000's hundreads of Engineers left HAL and joined TCS,Honeywell, HCL etc.. and many left for either USA or EU countries. students from mushroom of pvt colleges are excellent as individuals, but the quality of education these pvt colleges imparted on them is pathetic ,which resulted in substandard work atmosphere. All IITians who joined HAL belong to the 1970 batches and most of them will retire en mass in 2012 or 2013. unlike DRDO, HAL never gives importance to academics. HAL's R&D is mass production oriented and the amount HAL spends on R&D is minuscule and most of DRDO projects are one prototype wonders and half-baked.Why ISRO and BARC are successful,because their foundations were laid out by visionaries like Vikaram sarabhai,Bhabha etc... new India lacks such visionaries with the exception of Abdul Kalam. When Trivandrum ,baroda, Ahmedabad are available, what is the need to establish HAL divisions in remote areas like Korwa, Kasargod etc.?These divisions are considered as ALCATRAZs...Do you force talented young Engineers to work in such remote areas...that too bright young Engineers from IITs and NITs??? its true, much more accountability and efficiency and innovations , is expected from HAL? But who is guiding it to achieve that goal? HAL top gun like any armed forces chiefs assumes charge at the fag end of his career at the age of 58 years ,that too with all the pulls and pushes from state ,center all and sundry. The stamina , the decision making power and risk taking abilities will be running down the hill under Indian conditions.May be George welch and Ratan Tata may be an exception!!! At the moment HAL has too many projects,too much of expectations ,Himalayan goals , but with a disinterested and inexperienced younger generation work force. HAL is in need of a messiah!!!

    SWATI a/c accident report by DGCA. check the link below:

    dgca.nic.in/accident/acc93.pdf
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
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  11. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    private industry if they have capability to compete with hal in innovation( dhruv like stuff) then it should be promoted. moreover private companies in india have no experience of aerospace and aerospace being a capital-intensive industry, pvt firms are slow and cautious in forraying into it. we have tata producing cabins for sirkosky and other companies doing the same. but for them to come up with something like dhruv is still a distant dream
     
  12. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Its time TATA and Mahindra likes be promoted in aircraft industry esp in defense sector.

    I want someone out of this to buy out SaaB Aerospace... Pretty high wish, but possible..:rolleyes:
     
  13. Virendra

    Virendra Moderator Moderator

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    Tatas ?? Hoping that the planes won't play with flames like so many Nano did. "Fingers crossed"
     
  14. SpArK

    SpArK SORCERER Senior Member

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    Buying out means the products will be like Jaguar or Land rover .. not nano locally designed and produced..

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    Guys, problem is not that HAL manufactures everything, problem is that despite increase in demand by almost three fold HAL continues to manufacture everything. Be it PSU or Private firm, for maintaining quality and accountability you need competition. Do mind that unlike DRDO, HAL is a profit intensive and making organisation and acts much like typical except for the fact that profit goes to Government. Like to mention that I don't believe in belief " Privatization is remedy for all" but if GOI can't come up with another equally capable PSU (on the lines of HP vs BP for the shake of competition or work sharing) for aerospace manufacturing then what choice we have other than a private firm?
     
  16. Rahul Singh

    Rahul Singh Senior Member Senior Member

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    NANO is one example, INDICA Vista is also one. Besides, problems of these natures are very common around globe and even respected and reputed car manufacturers have recalled their cars because of design and manufacturing defects.
     

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