Why India should join Russian air strikes in Syria

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by spikey360, Nov 21, 2015.

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Do you think India should bomb Syria/ISIS?

  1. Yes

    44.8%
  2. No

    55.2%
  1. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    Instead of always being a bystander during events of global import, it’s time India showed some spine and acted like a responsible power.

    Warplanes from multiple countries are screaming through the skies over Syria. On the ground, terrorist groups are nibbling at Syria’s extremities. It is an environment that India should jump right into. Here are six good reasons why India needs to send its well-trained and ferocious military to defend beleaguered Syria.


    India needs to show support for an ally

    Currently, Russia is conducting airstrikes against ISIS, al-Qaeda and CIA-backed terror groups all by itself. The Russian Air Force has brought a strong detachment of jet fighters and bombers to Syria, but the fact remains that it is a solo act. Iran has provided shock troops to fight on the ground, but no aircraft. India should send at least a squadron of jets for joint air strikes with the Russian Air Force against terror groups. This is a matter that concerns India’s only strategic partner. When your friend is in a fight, you enter the fray.

    India’s counter-terror expertise can be a game changer


    India’s experience in counter terrorism could play a decisive role in combating ISIS as well as CIA supported terrorist groups such as the so-called Free Syrian Army. The Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Indian Army have been fighting extremists in Kashmir and eastern India for decades. India also stamped out separatism in Punjab after a take-no-prisoners campaign that lasted nearly 20-years. Such valuable counter terror experience is precisely what Russia would appreciate having on its side in the Syrian war.


    India’s armed forces will gain invaluable experience


    Significant events are happening over Syrian airspace and beyond. Turkish Air Force F-16s that attempted to come close to the action got a taste of Russian airpower when MiG-29s interceptors – providing top cover – achieved radar lock on the F-16s. Turkey’s military admitted that as many as eight Turkish F-16 jets patrolling the Turkish-Syrian border were “painted” by a MiG-29 as well as surface-to-air missile systems based in Syria in two separate incidents.
    This is an eerie replication of the 1999 Kargil War when Indian MiG-29s – which were providing top cover to IAF jets targeting Pakistani intruders – achieved missile locks on Pakistan Air Force F-16s, forcing the latter to disengage from the battle.
    The airspace over Syria is an environment that India’s MiG-29 and Sukhoi-30MKI pilots would relish. Not only would they be right at home in the Syrian cauldron, Indian pilots will also gain experience in a 21st century battlefield environment involving western air forces.
    The IAF can also test its ability to quickly airlift Indian troops into a war zone.
    After the bombardment by Russian and Indian aircraft, the Indian Army would savour the prospect of mopping up the remnants of the ISIS as well as CIA-backed rebel groups.



    Fight them in Syria, not at home

    There will be plenty of naysayers who will argue India should not enter the mess because they fear the country will end up on the ISIS radar. But the point is to fight – and exterminate – ISIS in its home base than in India. ISIS should not be given any breathing space which would allow them to expand out of the Middle East. India – like Russia – faces a serious threat from these media and technology savvy terrorist organisations that are able to radicalise its citizens via the internet. India, therefore, has every right to destroy ISIS in its breeding grounds before it becomes a threat at home.


    India’s stock will rise globally

    Despite sending spectacular missions to the Moon and Mars and becoming an IT superpower, India is still known as the land of holy men, tigers and Gandhi. What the country needs is an image makeover. If India sends its armed forces to Syria, its stock will rise globally as one of the few countries able to hit the ISIS. We are talking about fighting the world’s most vicious rebel group, whose terror tactics have achieved the impossible task of making al-Qaeda look like a moderate bunch.
    There is an ancient Indian saying – the brave shall inherit the earth. India’s leadership needs to bite the bullet.



    India’s entry will be a landmark geopolitical event

    The Russian airstrikes in Syria could be the beginning of a more assertive BRICS group. Until now it was the West which was enforcing no-fly zones and dictating terms. Now the Russian side is doing it – not against small, defenceless countries but against real terrorists who are a global menace. This is a significant development because Russia is finally taking decisive military action and has received wide support internationally.

    Importantly, Russian air strikes against opponents of the secular Bashar al-Assad government have decapitated American foreign policy in the Middle East. People in the Middle East have front row seats to the wilting of American power in the face of a determined Russia.

    India has rarely intervened outside the scope of the United Nations. The country is known as the reluctant superpower because it rarely ventures into global hot spots. If India sends its mighty defence forces to support Syria, it would have the weight of over 1.2 billion people saying no to terrorist groups holding a peaceful and secular country to ransom.


    This is history in the making – don’t sit it out.

     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
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  3. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    I am entirely of the opinion that there has been no better a time than now to join the strikes. We can kill many birds with one stone. Instead of begging for a permanent UNSC seat, then maybe Bharat will have to be given one. Only might respects might.
     
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  4. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes we should join the air raids that are being carried out against ISIS. It will be a great show of our growing power in the ME region. By flexing our muscles we would also send out the right message to our enemy Pakistan.
     
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  5. nirranj

    nirranj Regular Member

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    We should enter the fight against ISIS. Also we should enter Afghanistan to stabilize the country post NATO withdrawal. This would be a strong signal to the wahabis that India would act beyond its borders to protect its interests.

    Also we should push for a artic - Indian ocean corridor that will comprise Russia, centra Asian republics, Afghanistan Iraq and Iran. This will act as a natural barrier between the wahabis and the east, and also isolate Pakistan and surround it with allies.
     
  6. DingDong

    DingDong Senior Member Senior Member

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    Air Strikes require ground intelligence, I don't think that R&AW has established a good enough network. Just have a look at the pathetic number of people serving in Indian Foreign Services, we are short of manpower.

    Indian Military is not an expeditionary force, it is a defensive force, it cannot operate very far away from the Indian Mainland. Even if our political leadership gives a go-ahead, our military will most certainly let us down.

    War is an expensive business, it requires money to sustain itself, once the war expenses start mounting, Congies, AAP-tards and Paid Media will start crying about farmer suicides and what not.

    Pakistan is a buffer state between India and Middle East, before venturing as far as ME, we must try to stabilize our own neighbourhood.

    May be after 2035, things will start to change.
     
  7. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    Disagree. Things will always look unfavourable if we choose to look it that way.
    Things are no better for Russia either, economically. Economy is one of the main drivers of expeditionary warfare, it is said. However, there is hardly anything to write home about the Russian Economy.
    Yet, they choose to wage war, to do what has to be done anyway.
    A war with Islam is coming, it is inevitable. That is a greater enemy than poverty and hardships.
    One must at least survive to be poor. If one is killed, there can be no talk of poverty or hardship. Furthermore, these kind of opportunities do not come often in world history. Those who choose to act, stay forever in the hearts and minds of world for centuries to come. Others, become a footnote.
     
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  8. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    Yes, but Russia is headed by crazy type!!

    Coming back to discussion. Russia has much more to gain/lose by supporting its ally Assad stay in power.

    What will India gain?- Nothing except Diwali expenditures.

    India needs to show support for an ally - yeah whatever.
    India’s counter-terror expertise can be a game changer - No. India is not putting boots on the ground, and Air raids have no connection with CT expertise.
    India’s armed forces will gain invaluable experience - Don't know. They learnt a lot during Kargil. ISIS has no air power, I hardly imagine they would learn anything worthwhile bombing lame ducks. Anyone who can spare some money can do that.
    Fight them in Syria, not at home - o yeah. As if bombing in Syria will kill local jihadis. They can always take inspiration from Pakis if not ISIS.
    India’s stock will rise globally - probably
    India’s entry will be a landmark geopolitical event - so what!!


    Also, given Syria is being bombarded by US, France, UK(now they will) and Russia. I hardly understand what India can add to the firepower already used by the above powers. Let them waste their moolah while India sips its martini lying on the beach.
     
  9. elite member

    elite member Regular Member

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    That would be suicidal for India , the local jhadi elements & there sleeper cells will then collaborate to create night mare for India and you know how week we Indians are i.e Kashmir,Khandar hijack ,Mumbai bomb blasts etc.
    India is not yet strong enough to defend itself forget about putting his hand into hornets nest ,we did once in lanka and got our lessons.
     
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  10. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    "how weak we indians are", "India is not strong enough" etc etc

    On the topic of "weak" "indians": All I can say is that one is weak only when one is scared.

    India is in its current position because so called indian leaders did not have strategic insight, and not just the last 5 decades, the last several centuries.

    Sure India has strategic limitations, but that doesn't mean weakness; there are always work arounds.

    "the strongest steel is forged in the hottest fires."
     
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  11. J.A.

    J.A. Militants

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    No, no, no ISIS will win in Syria.

    Maybe in Iraq India can air strikes.

    :india2:
     
  12. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    So I am guessing your Guru is Owwbama. That explains a lot.. Sadly.
    What will India gain, let's see.. I am answering your posers, assuming GoI mirrors your stance
    Foolish attitude. This is exactly the reason no one will take India seriously. At least China sent a carrier. What did 'special relationship' India do? A few statements a few years back and that's it? On the contrary, USSR/Russia sent its Nuclear Submarine during 1971, when 'natural ally' America sent warships into Bay of Bengal supporting naPakistan. So much for your 'whatever'.
    Sounds like you are a CT expert yourself. Elaborate more on how Air Power is all about blind bombing and knowing nothing about what is down below? Share your expertise with us layman.
    You claim to "don't know", yet you go on blabbering some more. Kargil War was 1999. I imagine half of the people who took part then are already on the verge of retirement, the other half have already been promoted to higher ranks who, now, won't be the first ones to be deployed on the battlefield. In this circumstance, who/what fills the experience gap of the younger bunch? You, General? Can you be more silly?
    By your logic, participating in one mountain conflict one can have expeience of all sorts of conflict over time and in all parts of world, under all conditions. Marvelous assessment, master strategist.:D
    For your information: Russia have not much money to spare, their economy in dire straits, try reading the newspapers a bit more often, eh?
    Agree that we need to fight this war on both fronts. Like Russia is clamping down simultaneously on both home and abroad. Again, try reading the newspaper a bit more.
    As for inspiration, if not Pakistan, they can always be inspired by lame ducks like you.

    What an utter fool. So what? Stay in france child. Don't have to think about India. Make some Islamic friends and kiss some Islamic bombs. That would be all. :D

    You sip martini laying on the beach, let the big boys do the thinking, talking and acting, kiddo ;)
     
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  13. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    What geopolitical objectives do we achieve other than kissing Putin's ass, by bombing Isis ? Pakistan is a bigger threat to us than Isis was or ever will be.


    Putin fanboys are getting out of control. They have no stopped thinking for India and started thing how to help their Putin masters
     
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  14. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    It was in 1971, get over it.


    And besides, will Russia send its warships for the next India pak war?(let alone India China war?)

    And really, what geopolitical purpose other than kissing Putin's ass does this serve?

    :laugh: Yes, CT is done with airforce bombing the villages where terrorists are hiding among civilians. OK.
    Yes, not bombing Isis to kiss you master Putin's ass is now equal to making Friends with islamists. Moron. This is not our fight to be in. We gain nothing from doing it.

    Wow. So Isis, which has not done anything in India should be targeted by India while Pakistan which has done everything against India sits across the border comfortably?:pound:
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
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  15. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Don't try to jump, before you learn to stand.

    Read the post I posted, and understand before making your own conclusions; it clearly says "On the topic of "weak" "Indians""

    I haven't even mentioned Putin or Russia or any ass kissing which seems to be your obsession.

    Pretending to be macho is okay, but don't overdo it.


    Now on the topic, there is merit in the points raised by @spikey360 but the reason I'm undecided on whether India should participate is because frankly I'm not sure if India has the military capability to do this.
     
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  16. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    I wasn't talking about you when I said Putin's fanboys . I was talking about @spikey360. But you got riled up, are you one yourself?:lol:


    Anyway, pls let us know what geopolitical objective bombing Isis achieves for us, other than kiss Russia's ass? Even @spikey360 has not really sold anything other than what I just mentioned. And yes, bombing targets, who pose no threat to us now, wasting our money, for no geopolitical purpose means just that- kissing ass.

    :dude: even if it does have it, why should we do it? Really? Its a simple question.
     
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  17. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    1. Riled up? You make unwanted assumptions out of my posts, when my post is pretty clear on what it is addressing. What else, do you expect?

    2. Sighhhhhh I have said in my previous post (which you quosted) that I agree with Spikey360. Except for "CT expertise", I agree with the other points he raised in OP.

    From OP:

    1. India needs to show support for an ally: I would rephrase this as India needs Russia; if it is going to be serious about tackling the China threat. (Note Pakistan is not a threat to india, only real threat to india is pakistani terrorists and massive refugee influx if/when pakistan collapses.)
    No don't be silly, the US is not going to support us wrt to china; neither is Japan going to be that great an ally for China tackling business. Japan is not that strong, and is a US vassal. Also Japan (people) is closely linked culturally and trade-wise to China.
    Russia on the other hand is linked/linking to china because it has no other choice at present. It is absolutely in india's interest to prevent this relationship from blossoming, but apparently the great indian leaders haven't figured this out it seems.
    At present Russia has 2 market choices China and India (large populations) but china got most of the deals (in spite of russians prefering indians) Why? Fence sitting by indians.

    2. India’s armed forces will gain invaluable experience: Operating in different environments, logistics issues, co-operatoin opportunities, exchange of ideas, contact developments, so on and so forth. Maybe useful in the short to medium time range. Really a no-brainer.

    3. India’s stock will rise globally: The world views ISIS as a demon (even though it is funded by saudis, turkis and so on, aka american funding). Showing solidarity with the world is a good idea at least better idea than fence sitting. Besides we may be able to cultivate assets, gain intelligence about operatives returning to india etc.

    4. India’s entry will be a landmark geopolitical event: For obvious reasons, agreed.
     
  18. I_PLAY_BAD

    I_PLAY_BAD Regular Member

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    India must not join Syria air strikes.
    It was the West which created the IS so let them clean it themselves.
     
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  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Attacking the messenger. Exactly the reason why you (plural) should be evicted from this discussion.

    When warnings don't work, the solution is an automatic block.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2015
  20. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    In principle, yes.

    Sadly, we milked the Soviets in all the way we could, got support in 1971/72 (our greatest victory so far), and even got them to veto for us, and today, during Ukraine crisis, we did not even give any military or humanitarian help to the Donbass militia - not a bullet, not a blanket.

    A friend in need is a friend indeed. We are not honourable friends. We take help, but refuse to give even so much in return that would not hurt us.

    No wonder Russia treats India purely in business sense.

    This is a valid argument. From a practical standpoint, we cannot afford air-strikes. I am against boot on the ground though. Moreover, what if one of our planes is shot down?

    I agree. The only reason why India should stay out is because India might not have the capability. India is not an expeditionary force.

    BTW, Putin is the most popular world leader today, all over the world, not only Russia. He seems to be the only person who matches his words with action.

    It is true it is a creation of the west and they should clean it up. The problem is, if this is not defeated there, tomorrow it will knock on our doors.

    India seems to be putting lot of its eggs in a sinking ship.
     
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  21. jackprince

    jackprince Turning into a frog Senior Member

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    The same people crying foul about Russia's relationship getting closer to China and in extention to Pakistan, is reluctant to help Russia or show support to any of Russia's ventures. A classic attitude of selfishness. As long as India is cloistered in its cocoon of nutrality and non-involvement, it does not deserve a permanent seat at UNSC.

    Time has come for India to flex its muscle and no other better opportunity could there be. India needs to be involved in stabilising Afghanistan after NATO troops leave, ans Syria can be a very good training exercise for them. The geography is similar, adversary similar... tactical advantage for the training in Syria would invaluable.

    Also, since almost all camps are getting involved in Syria, India would n9t have to be seen as taking any particular side in the conflict.
     
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