What would a Russia vs United States of America war look like?

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by HMS Astute, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    [​IMG]

    The chances that the U.S. and Russia will clash militarily over Moscow's invasion of Ukraine are very, very slim. Ukraine isn't a member of NATO, and President Obama isn't likely to volunteer for another war. But many of Ukraine's neighbors are NATO members, including Poland, Romania, Slovakia, and Hungary. And so are the the Baltic states — Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia — further north and right on Russia's border. If any of those countries come to Ukraine's aid and find themselves in a war with Russia, NATO is obliged to intervene. That's also true if Russia comes up with some pretext to invade any of those countries, unlikely as that seems. If we learned anything from World War I, it's that huge, bloody conflicts can start with tiny skirmishes, especially in Eastern Europe. Again, the U.S. and Russia almost certainly won't come to blows over Ukraine. But what if they did?

    If you asked that question during the Cold War it would be like those fanciful Godzilla vs. King Kong, or Batman vs. Superman match-ups: Which superpower would prevail in all-out battle? But Russia isn't the Soviet Union, and military technology didn't stop in 1991. Here, for example, is a look at U.S. versus Russian/USSR defense spending since the end of the Cold War, from Mother Jones. The U.S. is much wealthier than Russia and spends a lot more on its military. That doesn't mean a war would be easy for the U.S. to win, though, or even guarantee a victory: As Napoleon and Hitler learned the hard way, Russia will sacrifice a lot to win its wars, especially on its home turf.

    [​IMG]

    So, what would a war between the U.S. and Russia look like? Here are a few scenarios, from awful to merely bad:

    A conventional war in Eastern Europe
    This is the other scenario that never happened in the Cold War. Now, the possibility of scenario one (nuclear Armageddon) makes this one almost equally unlikely. But for the sake of argument, let's assume this hypothetical U.S.-Russia war breaks out in Ukraine, and that other NATO forces are supplementing U.S. troops, ships, and aircraft. Unlike in the Asia-Pacific, where the U.S. keeps China in check (and vice versa, as Eugene Chow explained), NATO provides the United States with a robust military alliance set up specifically to take on Soviet Russia.

    The first dynamic is that Russia would have home field advantage: The Russian navy has long called Crimea its home, and whatever troops Russia doesn't already have in Ukraine are right next door, one border-crossing away. The other big starting point is that the U.S. and its NATO allies have Russia effectively surrounded. By its own public count, the U.S. has 598 military facilities in 40 countries, along with the 4,461 bases in the U.S. and U.S. territories.

    Along with its large number of bases in Germany, the U.S. has major military installations in Qatar and the Diego Garcia atoll to Russia's south and Japan and South Korea to its east. NATO allies France and Britain are even closer, as this map from Britain's The Telegraph shows:

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    On top of that, NATO has bases around Russia's western perimeter and in Turkey, right across the Black Sea from Ukraine. What about Russia? "They have a presence in Cuba," more a way station than a base, NYU professor Mark Galeotti tells The Washington Post. And Russia has a naval base in Tartus, Syria. But otherwise "they have no bases outside the former Soviet Union."

    Russia has an estimated 845,000 active-duty troops, with as many as 2.5 million more in reserve. NYU's Galeotti isn't very impressed. Russia's military is "moderately competent," he tells The Washington Post. "It's not at the level of the American or British or German military, but it's better than in the 1990s." The Russian troops, especially the Spetsnaz special forces, are "good at bullying small neighbors, but it would not be effective against NATO. It would not be able to defeat China." Galeotti is even more brutal about Russia's Crimea-based Black Sea Fleet:

    As a war-fighting force, it's not particularly impressive. Its main vessel was basically built to fight other ships and so is only useful in fighting a naval war. It's got the Moskva, an aging guided-missile cruiser; a large anti-submarine warfare cruiser — very dated; a destroyer and two frigates, which are more versatile; landing ships; and a diesel attack submarine. It's not a particularly powerful force. The Italian navy alone could easily destroy it. [Washington Post]

    Read more:

    What would a U.S.-Russia war look like? - The Week
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    @HMS Astute

    Just Google some YouTube videos of the aftermath of the atomic genocide at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and you will get an answer to your question.
     
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  4. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    does russia even need tanks or aircraft then? all they do is just threaten with their nukes, nukes, nukes, nukes and more nukes.
     
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  5. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    @HMS Astute

    Discussion about how a war between the US and Russia is purely academic since it is very unlikely that they will have direct war. They will fight war through proxies. And if they do have direct war then I think that would be the end of the World as we know it.
     
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  6. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    that's why nato should install proper nuclear defence shield in europe and russia's doorstep, which will significantly reduce the sharpness of the bear's teeth.

    the only thing that makes people think twice when they talk about a war against russia is just because of their nukes.

    without nukes, russia's conventional forces can be handled with ease.
     
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  7. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    NATO should stop being a prick and disband immediately.
     
  8. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    It is not threatening, it is strategic military balance. The US (and the puppets) have nukes. Russia has nukes.
    The purpose of Strategic nuclear weapons is to deter, they are not meant to be used.

    The US attempts to disturb the balance by proliferating nuclear weapons (in defiance to Non-Proliferation Treaty) and basing nukes in countries such as: Germany, Nederlands, Italy, Turkey and Belgium. (all relatively close to Russia)
    The so called Missile shield supposedly intended for Iran is actually intended for Russia. Yes the missile shield is defensive in nature, but disturbs this nuclear balance, as it is easier to knock down ICBMs in boost phase. For it BMD to work for boost phase knock out, the missile shield system must be placed nearer to launch location which is why they want it in Poland. Interestingly the US refused, when Russia offered a base in Armenia for missile shield, which both Russia and the NATO would monitor. Why would the US do that when Armenia is clearly a better choice for the missile shield, if Iran was the target ?
    The ultimate aim of the US is to weaken Russia so as to effectively control its resources.
     
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  9. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    good luck putin, a leader of third world and muslim countries, but nato's nuclear shield project is moving forward as planned.

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Post source of article from where picture is taken ?
    Why is there a fire in Volgograd ?
     
  11. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    I think thee's no threat from Russia in terms of nuclear tipped BMs. The threat is from smaller and more militant countries with developing nuclear capabilities like Iran. The behavior of these smaller countries is not yet certain. Russia on the other hand, provided it follow the USSR's nuclear doctrine, is reasonably predictable.

    In terms of purely academic discourse, on the topic of conventional warfare, I think Russia will lose.

    1) in terms of military hardware it is outmatched by NATO;

    2) in terms of economic staying power, Russia is definitely toast; and

    3) Unlike WW2, Russia cannot rely on the manpower of its neighbors (former vassal states) since they are already antagonistic to it. Chances are the vast number of its neighbors will volunteer to fight on NATO's side against it.
     
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  12. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    the eu spends less than 1.5% of gdp on defence, whereas russian spends 4%.

    when it comes to full scale conventional war, even the eu alone can handle russia with ease. eu has the world's biggest economy and gdp.
     
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  13. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    won't not recommend to use it as a reliable source, but just a scenario. but, we all know the defence shield is going ahead as planned.

    http://larouchepac.com/node/30420

     
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  14. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Here are some quotes from the articles you posted.

    These are not threats: Russia says if you nuke us, we nuke you. Mutually Assured Destruction.
    Every nuke nation can nuke each other and Africa will be the next super power. lol
     
  15. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    I'm not very concerned about the BMD plans it may go ahead it may not. Russia will have a proper response to it.

    But I'm wondering why there is a fire in Volgograd, in that picture. Every other fire is a conflict point, courtesy NATO. But what is this fire in Volgograd ? @Cadian Any idea ?
     
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  16. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    Waging war on Russia: Looking into Volgograd terror blasts
    January 03, 2014
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    Mon Aug 4, 2014
    Russia to hold war games in show of strength near Ukraine | Reuters

    putin better focus on his country's economy, which is currently growing at 0% rate.

    let alone the living standard, human development index and corruption rate there.
     
  18. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    I did think of that.
    But that was a terrorist attack which happened in Dec 2013.
    It is not an ongoing war/conflict, unlike every other instance in that picture, at least as per my understanding.
     
  19. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    I think Putin's popularity in Russia far outstrips Cameron's. I think he knows what he is doing. Hey, thank for the advice.
     
  20. HMS Astute

    HMS Astute Regular Member

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    if they want to isolate themselves from the world, global markets and international community. let them be and choose their own future. oh and cameron is a complete twat when dealing with defence budget and immigration matters, although their economic policy is not bad, considering the UK is fastest the growing major advanced economy in the world this year with low unemployment rate. doubt he would win the next election if he does not change the attitude.
     
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  21. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Trust me, they are not isolating themselves from anyone.

    The international market is dominated by the dollar, so yes, there will be initial difficulties, but if Russia decides to trash the dollar, there is nothing anyone can do. Iraq tried to trash the dollar, and got invaded. Libya - same. Russia is very different. From my understanding, in their effort to hurt Russia, US and EU are hurting themselves as well. I think Putin has to weather the difficulties and wait for the Europeans to revolt against their spineless leaders. The recent EU polls should be an indicator.

    Again, this is all speculation, so time will tell whether I am correct.
     

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