What is best calibre for an Assault Rifle?

Discussion in 'Land Forces' started by Sunder singh, Aug 12, 2012.

  1. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    dear frnds i want to know what is Best caliber
    bullet for an assault rifle for india against of enemies or possible enemies and why did india replaced 7.62 with 5.56 bullet how is it diffrent from chinese 5.8 bullet .
    which bullet is supperior 5.56/ 5.8/ 7.62/6.5.
    plz clear confussion .....
     
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  3. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    i will go with 7.62mm is best in war...
    5.56mm is good for Urban Ops..

    and 7.62 mm is best.....
     
  4. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    ^^ wat about mountain or high alti war senerio
     
  5. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    which bullet india use 7.62*39 or 7.62*51 wat is the diffrence
     
  6. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    7.62x39 - Kalashnikov
    7.62x51 - (NATO standard) SMLE, SLR
    7.62x54R - (Rimmed) PK, Dragunov
     
  7. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    which one do india use and why any strategy behind
     
  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    India uses all.

    For details, I'll let Ray Sir, Kunal, Mr. Ewald, Akim, et al., answer that.
     
  9. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    plzz may b they can also tell about countering chinese 5.8 caliber
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Calibres I have shot:
    • 11.43×23mm
    • 9×19mm
    • 7.62×39mm
    • 5.7×28mm
    • 5.56×45mm

    I am a civvie, and don't know which one is the best in what kind of combat.

    I wish I could give you more details.
     
  11. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    why so many caliber guns operated by india which causes financial and logistic problem
     
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  12. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    From calibers 5,45, 5,56, 5,8 the best are a 6,5 mm! What caliber at the assault rifles of India - 7,62*39? Here him and use. On the Chinese cartridge, nothing will say is I him in hands did not hold. On «soviet» and NATO littleimpulsive cartridge too much censures. They are good only on flat locality. Substantial advantages between them it is not, unless 5,45 - a mm heavier than wound to inflict. Both cartridges often ricochet and in city and in forrest. In mountains, where pressure of air below, they lose the internalss also. India with anybody does not stand in military alliances, what to use identical standards. Pass at once to the caliber 6,5*39 мм. And М-4 and Ак-74, easily Remade under this caliber.
     
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  13. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    thanks akim i have herd that in somalia that nato used 5.56 against enemy, even geting a brust they again stand and start fighting plz tell why have we not chosed some so powerfull or intermidiate between 5.56 and 7.62.
     
  14. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    @Sunder Singh

    Armies the world over an specially the NATO had settled for 5.56 as the best caliber for "Wars"..
    By "wars" they meant conventional war.

    Major reasons for that was

    Make causalities rather than kill thereby increasing enemies logistics burden in evacuation.
    7.62 X 52 was found to have excessive explosive forces and overkill, more bulky round thereby increasing weight of soldiers.
    7.62 produced more flash and smoke with attendant disadvantages.
    The Arms meant to fire 7.62 by logic had to be heavier.
    Because of heavier and lengthy rounds magazine capacity was less.
    Over all ammunition carrying capacity was less.
    Battlefield needed increased volume of fire.


    However, after the cold war ended the nature of warfare changed quite a lot with almost all conflicts being fought as small wars as LICO, against insurgents, less developed armies, terrorist, urban warfare's, jungle warfare. Now from from long range engagements it came down to short intense and CQB engagement. it is in context where the conventional armies find their conventional arms and ammunition specially 5.56 terribly unsuitable.

    The requirement now is heavy volume of fire at CQB range, more kill probably and much more accuracy. That is why most of the LIC war and insurgency wars are being fought around 7.62 Russian short bullets which can be fired from all families of small arms like LMG , Rifles etc..
    What has so far stood its ground is 7.62 / 39 which has become all most a universal calibre for almost all small wars... NATO is making amends to their traditional 5.56.

    Besides this 7.62 X 52 has not lost relevancy to higher and heavier guns like MMG.
    9mm still continues to dominate smaller sagements of armaments.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
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  15. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    When accepted a "small caliber" tasks which were then unfeasible to the weapon decided. We will begin with that in the USA there was not an «intermediate cartridge» in general, and the USSR in 1974 year he was accepted as an answer of NATO - besides did it by mistake. Modern rifles allow to decide the same tasks, but even with a large caliber. At the end of the USSR a caliber was developed 9*39 мм. He is now used in Russia and in Ukraine in the S.F. There are bi-caliber rifles which at easy alteration are able to shoot and 5,45 and 7,62 and 9 mm.

    And about of the Chinese cartridge - will say so. For 20 years of his use, not a single country in the world did not show the personal interest to him. Probably it is on this occasion needed to be thoughtful...
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  16. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    @ Bhadra my question is why india is choose 5.56 as u said even NATO is eger to change caliber.
    1. Regarding CQB battle is not ture in mountain warfare where u make trenches to defend ur post and c enemy from from distance over the mountain or below in river valley.
    2. insas has low kill rate even if not been armored person.
    3. how will an ifantry jawan react in case he faces chinese 5.8 heavy round.
     
  17. methos

    methos Regular Member

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    Which caliber is the best depends on the situation - on short range combat 5.56 mm NATO and similar rounds are quite useful, but on longer ranges larger rounds are required.

    The 7.62 x 39 mm catridge of the older AK rifles is by far the worst caliber.
     
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  18. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Question. What parameters did you define 7,63*39 - worst?
     
  19. Sunder singh

    Sunder singh Regular Member

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    1. i dont think 7.62 has more range then 5.56 but it has poor accuracy in AKs.
    2. im not a fan of 7.62 bcoz contineouse firong makes for bit tired.
    3. huge explosion near ur ears if some firing near u makes u almost deaf.
    4. how many magines u can carry with a pair grinades plus pitthu and pouch etc.

    why i hate about 5.56
    1. no one want its enemy to stand and again fight after geting a hit from u or ur buddy.
    2. bullet proof r bcoming lighter and tougher with kavler wat if its doesnt penitrate.
    3. prone to climatic condition its rain allmost every day in north east india and snown above tawang and anni.
     
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  20. Bhadra

    Bhadra Defence Professionals Defence Professionals Senior Member

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    INDIA chose the calibre 5.56 for a conventional war as all reasons for choosing that were sound. But where did India fought conventional war. Rather her army is fighting unconventional wars. That is the requirement dilema!
    There a soldier is required to engage the enemy the moment he is 400 m till he comes right next to him. there 5,56 would be ideal and INSA would be good as it can fire three round burst therby increasing the rate of fire.
    INSAS has a higher rate of fire and when it was developed in 70s there were no personal armour. And how many armies can afford personal armour for lakhas and lakhs of army personal for conventional battles.

    He does not have to react. Firstly he can save his vitals by putting on personl armour . secondly if hit. he would be evacuated by two soldiers thereby reducing two soldiers in front line. He would also demoralise others. That is why making casualties was chosen over killing. But case of small wars killing has become more important than inflicting casualties. The shot must kill a man even it is on the leg. injuring a terrorist but living him surviving to kill you is not prudent.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2012
  21. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Why then in the USA actively discuss passing to the cartridge of caliber 6,5-6,8 mm. And he on parameters nearer to М- 43 (7,62mm)?. There is the system: a weapon - a cartridge. you discuss a weapon only. Certainly АК, which was invented in 1946 not to compare to G - 11. But cartridge better what 223 Remington.
    [​IMG]
     

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