What Indian Railways must learn from China

Discussion in 'China' started by gordon, Oct 6, 2012.

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  1. gordon

    gordon Regular Member

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    http://im.rediff.com/money/2011/dec/01rail1.jpg
    Disha Kanwar

    Slow pace in modernisation and infrastructure addition chokes tracks, constrains productivity, raises costs and invites political interference.


    Introduction of new trains every year is choking the already constrained line capacity of Indian Railways.

    Added to this, a slow pace of modernisation and infrastructure addition is hampering the efficiency of the Railways in terms of using its assets and traffic-handling capacity.

    Busier rail traffic is not unique to India; only that there are other countries capable of easing the congestion.

    http://im.rediff.com/money/2011/dec/01rail2.jpg

    Statistics of International Union of Railways reveal that the network productivity of Chinese Railways is more than double of Indian Railways.

    This is reflected by the transportation output data that indicates the efficiency of the line capacity utilisation of the railways.

    It tells the number of kilometres travelled by either a passenger or one tonne of freight per kilometre on existing infrastructural route length.

    This efficiency could be judged on the basis of the amount of traffic and the distance of travel.
    Besides, employee productivity of Chinese Railways is around 50 per cent higher than India.

    http://im.rediff.com/money/2011/jun/30train3.jpg

    In China, an employee handles 1.61 million of transportation output, while in the case of India it is 1.10 million.

    A senior official with Indian Railway says improved productivity of the Chinese system is mainly due to its higher level of asset utilisation and modernisation.

    "Indian Railways would need to increase asset utilisation by running heavier, longer and faster freight trains to achieve higher levels of productivity," he notes. India is picking up modernisation - but at a very slow pace.

    http://im.rediff.com/money/2011/oct/05bridge8.jpg

    It has barely added 13,000 km of route length since Independence.

    The Indian Railways is constrained in handling freight because of the obvious reasons of line constraint and lack of modernisation.

    In India, maximum permissible axle loading at this stage is 22.5 tonnes per axle. In the US, Australia and China which primarily carry freight, heavier bulk commodities like iron ore and coal, the movement is through heavier, longer and faster trains.

    In those countries, at some patches, even axle loading of 30,32.5 or 37 tonnes per axle is permissible making their efficiency and per-unit cost of operation more economical.

    http://im.rediff.com/money/2011/jun/30train6.jpg

    As per a World Bank Report on Transportation, certain railways (for example, the US, China, and Russia) carry mostly freight, which permits higher productivity.

    "These, at least in principle, permits a 'commercial' approach to prices and services," it notes.

    "Other railways (for example, India, and most of the Western European railways) carry much more passenger service than freight, which constrains productivity, raises cost, and invites political interference in operations and pricing."

    http://im.rediff.com/money/2011/jun/14chenab11.jpg

    Finally, the passenger problem is aggravated in the case of India and Western Europe, as significant part of the passenger activity is suburban commuting, which is both costliest and least remunerative of all.

    However, in European countries, freight traffic is carried by the roads, as distances are shorter.

    Though the Railways does get budgetary support in India for infrastructure funding, the government funding is not much, as it is expected to subsidise its services under social obligations.

    http://im.rediff.com/money/2011/jul/22railways2.jpg

    By and large, Indian Railways is expected to bear the cost of running operations and creation of infrastructure except a few national projects.

    The Railways is running at operating surplus in European economies, whereas in India even the fixed cost of infrastructure is funded primarily from its commercial activities only.

    India's roads account for 57 per cent of the freight traffic, whereas continent-sized countries like the US has 44 per #162 China has merely 22 per cent.

    http://im.rediff.com/money/2009/jun/11sld4.jpg

    This is despite the fact that a large part of India's freight traffic comprises bulk traffic and moves over long distances that can be more economically served by rail and waterways.

    Chinese, Russian and the US have created efficient logistic models by carrying freight and long-distance traveller through rail and shifting short-distance traveller to roadways by providing sound infrastructure.

    The slow progress in modernisation and creation of infrastructure is creating an inefficient and uneconomical logistic model for the country.
     
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  3. Hari Sud

    Hari Sud Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is nothing in Chinese railways for India to learn. It should be other way round; it is china who have to learn from Indian railways. For its faults which free press and Indian media publishes, Indian railways is efficient and far ahead of China.

    So do not get too impressed with Chinese everything. They are first rate copy cats and bad equipment makers. Evefything breaks down the next day (indian Aircraft Carrier fire bricks) or next year (my laptop, dvd player, my home phone sets etc.).
     
  4. gordon

    gordon Regular Member

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    from you words, i finally understand why slow pace in modernisation and infrastructure for the past decades in India...
     
  5. huaxia rox

    huaxia rox Senior Member Senior Member

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    so tell me what broke down in your SLV ASLV and GSLV???and what broke down in your moon probe that finally went over heated and disappeared??? anything related to prc???
     
  6. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    India can learn from China what not to do. Do not cheap out on construction by using sawdust filler, do not skimp on safety features, do not build more railways than you can make a profit and do not put corrupt leaders in charge. Now it will cost billions of dollars just to fix what could have been done in the beginning.
     
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  7. gordon

    gordon Regular Member

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    so you just watching: china is doing this and that, what is doing right and wrong... while you never try anything?!
    also i have to share a story with you below:

    There is a frog.He lives in a well and he never goes out of the well. He thinks the sky is as big as the mouth of the well.
    One day a crow comes to the well.He sees the frog and says,"Forg,let's have a talk.”Then they forg asks,"Where are you from?""I fly from the sky,"They crow says.Then the frog feeis surpriesd and says ,"the sky is only as big as the mouth of the well.How do you fly from the sky?"

    The crow says,"The sky is very big.You always stay in the well,so you don't know the wold is big."

    The frog says,"I don't believe."But the crow says,"you can come out and have a look by yourself."

    So the frog comes out from the well.He is very surpriesd.How big the wold is!
     
  8. gordon

    gordon Regular Member

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    The slow progress in modernisation and creation of infrastructure is creating an inefficient and uneconomical logistic model for India...
     
  9. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    Definitely nothing.

    India is fine being what it is.

    Why should India learn anything from China? By no means is China a model country for others to follow. There is plenty of advanced countries from which India could learn something about infrastructure development.
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    You are kidding yourself dude. The French make some of the best trains in the world. They couldn't have done that without trying and testing.
     
  11. gordon

    gordon Regular Member

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    Apparently you are kdiding yourself, buddy...read carefully, some indians are not willing to do anything! it is none of the French business...
     
  12. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    It's a wonder that the Indian Railways functions at all. It is a typical government bureaucracy headed by incompetent and corrupt ministers like Lalu Yadav and others who are only looking to fill their own pockets. Forget expansion, even the maintenance of the existing systems is beyond their capacity.

    It's not just the Indian Railways, but the whole of the Indian leadership that needs to take lessons from China on how to develop a vision, convert it into implementation of world class systems and successfully manage those systems.
     
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  13. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It is you who needs to read carefully. What pmaitra said is right, the French have much superior train systems than China. The way you are telling him, "you are watching, not learning anything" is laughable. China needs to watch and learn from the French and not vice-versa.
     
  14. Known_Unknown

    Known_Unknown Devil's Advocate Stars and Ambassadors

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    The best thing that Chinese leaders did was to focus intensely on literacy and education of the Chinese people. The more literate the electorate is, the less likely they are to vote criminals into Parliament. They are also less likely to fall for vote buying tactics or sophistry and more likely to have the ability to critically judge each candidate's platforms and previous performance.

    China's own local elections allow people to make these distinctions when voting their representatives into office.

    Also literate leaders are more likely to have a holistic vision for the country's development, knowledge of other systems and the ability to replicate better systems from elsewhere within their own countries or even create their own good systems.

    The following is an excellent paper that provides an indepth analysis of the problem:

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...&sig=AHIEtbT3v9IDjs8udUNxxKSlq12I4L0HmQ&pli=1

    China's literacy rate in 1990 was 78%. India's literacy rate in 2012 is 74%. As a result, India's Parliament is filled with criminals, illiterate and incompetent fools who don't have the capacity to run the country. Only the top leaders of the largest political parties are somewhat educated and capable.

    The rest are just frogs in the well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  15. gordon

    gordon Regular Member

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    if i were administrator here, i will delete your reply... wht we are discussing here is What Indian Railways must learn from China.
    it is none of French business, although there might be only a few things China can learn from French Railway. You can open another thread, the tiltle could be: "What china Railways must learn from French"!
     
  16. Singh

    Singh Phat Cat Administrator

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    France overall may edge China, purely because China still operates some older ones. Otherwise Chinese rail infrastructure is amazing. And when you consider how huge China is, it becomes even more phenomenal.

    ==

    Isolated examples.
    And if the Govt feels public transport is for public service and good than there is less need to turn out profits.
     
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  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Indian Railways is one of the world's largest railway networks comprising 115,000 km (71,000 mi) of track over a route of 65,000 km (40,000 mi) and 7,500 stations. IR carries about 7,500 million passengers annually or more than 20 million passengers daily (more than a half of which are suburban passengers) and 2.8 million tons of freight daily.

    The Chinese rail network has a total length of 91,000 km (56,545 mi). China carries 961.23 billion Passenger-km and 2,947 billion tonne-kilometers of freight'

    Wiki

    Where is the issue of comparison?

    What has Indian Railway to learn from the Chinese Railway?
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2012
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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  19. gordon

    gordon Regular Member

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    if your data is correct, and everyone konws china has more population than india. So india should learn below from china railway:
    1. efficiency
    2. speed
    3. safety
    4. dignity
    5. did i miss anything?
     
  20. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    I don't know what Indian railways can learn from China rail, but it is apparent that one thing Indians can learn from Chinese like you is how to indulge in cock-waving.
     
  21. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The question is that when you talk of efficiency and dignity, please remember that a whole lot of Chinese cannot return home by rail during Chinese holidays and even have to practically move in cattle car conditions.

    In India, during the holiday season, many special trains are run to accommodate the rush.

    [​IMG]
    People rush to catch their train at Beijing station on January 8, 2012. (Andy Wong/Associated Press

    Speed is no criteria. For those interested in speed, they can always travel by air. Businessmen and rich like to travel to their destination fast.

    Safety? Yes, that is a concern for Indian Railways. Chinese Rail has great safety? I would not know.
     
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