US threatens default to wipeout debt owed to China

Tianshan

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Distribute that money to poors . That will increase domestic consumption of your economy. :D
This sound good, but "direct" hand-out maybe not the best idea,

invest more in construction, infrastructure to create job.

However, problem of "ghost city". Cannot absorb the investment already.
 
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quite frankly LF i have no clues what all these countries would do, but it will certainly give rise to a situation where all the rest will be pitted against the US, at least the rest will find a common cause for once against the US. i am not so concerned about the rest, but more about india, where in our case if my memory serves me well, the exposure is at 56b usd or close to 17% and there abouts of our forex reserves and it will be a huge shock for our economy to get over with for quite some time to come and we could as a result take a big hit in our economic growth with investor sentiment on a tail spin and we do not have a govt which can do much about it nor do think we have government which will swiftly move out of this mess for we tend to be too concerned about how the other will take it than how badly a thing will effect our people and economy.
India has been on the right path buying gold all along. I have been following India's treasury buys and I don't think it is this high.What will be worst will be the recovery for many nations and banks make take decades from a man made collapse from a default.
 

thakur_ritesh

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India has been on the right path buying gold all along.
but LF that doesnt mean they are lowering their exposure to these debts, yes thankfully our forex reserves rose and we were in a position to invest else where and thankfully the saner voices within prevailed and didnt allow the government to continue buying into these debts, but more importantly what happens to debts we have already invested in, we are cetyainly not looking to move out, are we.

PS: if possible please get a fig for indias exposure as of 2011, all that i am getting is for 2009 and nothing beyond, which shows it as 38b usd.
 
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but LF that doesnt mean they are lowering their exposure to these debts, yes thankfully our forex reserves rose and we were in a position to invest else where and thankfully the saner voices within prevailed and didnt allow the government to continue buying into these debts, but more importantly what happens to debts we have already invested in, we are cetyainly not looking to move out, are we.

PS: if possible please get a fig for indias exposure as of 2011, all that i am getting is for 2009 and nothing beyond, which shows it as 38b usd.
It is worthless paper holdings until USA is ready to honor them (if ever???).

more recent nov 2010

Tehelka - India's Independent Weekly News Magazine

India's dollar treasury holding rises to a record $41 bn

http://www.makemystocks.com/marketnews/DATA-LOG-India-Holdings-Of-US-Treasury-Securities-30955.html

DATA LOG: India Holdings Of US Treasury Securities

Jan 2011 40.6
 

cw2005

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With today's transportation and communication efficiency, people of developed nations are working less but asking more while the people of developing nations are working more but asking less. An equilibrium would eventually reached so that work harder enjoy better.

Just look at the trouble of some members of EU and USA. People of these countries have been living beyond their means by borrow heavily. When a country could not finance its debt, default would be the natural outcome. That is part of the reason we have witnessed high rise of gold and other commodity prices recently. People simply have no more confidence on the dollar. It is "In Gold we Trust", not "In God we Trust" as printed on the greenbacks.
 

Tianshan

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kickok1975

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China's foreign reserve can not be distributed to Chinese, it can only be used for off shore investment or international trading. The only currency that can be leagally exchange in China is RMB. Even if Chinese government wants to hand out money, it has to be in RMB and 3 trillion dollars equals to 18 trillion RMB which is for sure going to cause severe inflation in China that would wipe out all the benefit of spreading around money. It is wasting of money and meaningless.

As that being said, China has no choice but to diversify her foreign reserve. And there are not many countries are big enough to issue bond that can accomodate such huge stock pile of dollars. China relys on US, US relys on China. It's inconvenient truth hard to face and hard to break.
 

nitesh

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It is good to reduce dependence on short-term treasury bill, but still a lot of risk overall.

from your link



Still too much.
Yes, you are right, but there is a begining, although I am not sure till what level CCP is ready to go
 

kickok1975

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US bond and treasure is current in Aaa rating the highest level which is backed by US tax revenue. . It's the fundamental element to support US dollar as world wide currency. US as a country benefit most from such recognition, credibility and a debt default could declare the end of such system. It's not in everybody's interest but especially disasterous to USA.

I have no reason to believe US would default her debt. Such fear is mainly driven by political struggle between Democratic and republic party. At the end of the day they will find compromise because they know such debt default scenario is unimaginable and in nobody's interest.
 

Tianshan

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As that being said, China has no choice but to diversify her foreign reserve. And there are not many countries are big enough to issue bond that can accomodate such huge stock pile of dollars. China relys on US, US relys on China. It's inconvenient truth hard to face and hard to break.
Yes, China and USA need each other for at least next decade or more.

US can buy most debt, US can buy most Chinese export. who else can buy so much to replace them.
 

kickok1975

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The only chance US will default her debt is when US dollar is no longer world currency, and US is no longer world super power. Before that happens, it's just a child nightmare.

However, it doesn't mean US won't depreciate its currency to regain economic momentum. China and all other central banks need be especially wary on US movement.
 

sob

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China has been buying the US T Bills on large scale to keep the Dollar- Yuan exchange rate in their favour, as their exports depend to a very large extent on this.

Had they not been shoring up the US Dollar, Yuan would have appreaciated in relative terms making their exports un competitive. This is not an acceptable solution so China needs to buy US T Bills in the near future.
 
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This is a serious issue if US govt is thinking about making this a part of economic policy. Many nations holding US treasury are counting it as an asset against which their banks are lending, what happens if this asset has no value??? This is the dilemma for China:

scenario for China from a default:

China is dependant on exports -USA is the biggest trade partner.
China does not get paid for goods exported -China is given an IOU- bonds and treasury notes
Bonds and treasury notes yield close to .5-1% interest, chinese economy has returns of 9-10% that are missed
by holding these debt instruments
Chinese banks are using these US debt instruments as assets they lend against
A default would threaten to erase trillions in assets even a temporary default may
have a severe impact on the chinese and world economy

scenario for USA from a default:


USA gets to start fresh a clean slate no more debt
USA used China for political and economic gain and broke soviet Union
USA will not have to worry about a future Chinese threat
USA will bring back manufacturing and jobs to USA
USA can enter a protectionist era where the 15 trillion dollar economy will be enjoyed by Americans
USA can slowly choose to pay back debt at time of it's choosing or maybe not at all??
USA dollar would take a hit but recover when manufacturing comes back to USA
 
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China says hopes U.S. will take effective debt steps | Reuters

China says hopes U.S. will take "effective" debt steps

(Reuters) - China said it hoped the United States will take effective steps to improve its fiscal position, in Beijing's latest expression of concern about the possibility that Washington could briefly default on debt.

Republican lawmakers have raised the prospect of a brief debt default as a means to force deeper government spending cuts they are demanding from the Obama administration, and a Chinese central bank adviser already said on Wednesday that a default would be "playing with fire."

"This is not a foreign policy question, but I want to point out that we hope that the United States will be able to adopt effective measures so that the U.S. fiscal and financial situation improves and turns around," the Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said at a regular press briefing.

Hong said such steps would help to "protect the stability of international financial markets and encourage steady and healthy development of the world economy."

China, the United States' biggest creditor with more than $1 trillion in Treasury debt as of March, fears even a small default could destabilize the global economy and sour political relations.
 
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Official sounds alarm over US assets

Official sounds alarm over US assets

BEIJING - China should guard against risks from "excessive" holdings of US assets as Washington could pursue a policy to weaken the dollar, a senior currency regulator said in comments published on a website that briefly pushed the dollar lower.

But the comments by Guan Tao of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE) were quickly removed from the website at his request. He told Reuters the comments had been made in private academic discussions and represented his personal view only.

"We must be alert to economic and political risks in excessive holdings of US dollar assets," Guan, head of the international payment department at SAFE, said in the article on the website of China Finance 40 Forum, a Beijing-based think tank of Chinese economists, bankers and officials.

"The United States has taken an expansionary fiscal and monetary policy to stimulate economic growth, and the United States may find it hard to resist the policy temptation of weakening the dollar abroad and pushing up inflation at home," he said.

The dollar, broadly lower on the day over market worries about the health of the US recovery, edged down slightly further after Guan's remarks. It hit a one-month low against a basket of currencies and the euro and a record low versus the Swiss franc.

Chinese officials have blamed ultra-loose US monetary policy for fueling global inflation and asset bubbles but they tend to be less vocal about China's huge holdings of US assets for fear of roiling the currency market.

At times though, top Chinese officials, including Premier Wen Jiabao, have publicly called on the US to ensure the safety of Chinese holdings of US assets.

One Chinese economist warned that China should stop buying US Treasury bonds and said the securities will be more risky because of the US' deficit.

Li Daokui, an adviser to China's central bank, said there is a risk the US may default on the debt. He called for the US to "stop playing with fire".

US economists, who spoke with China Daily, had a different take on this.

John Taylor, a professor of economics at Stanford University in Northern California, doesn't believe there is a default scenario.

"China should be thinking about other problems such as inflation, the exchange rate and the overheating of the economy," he said. "Decisions about foreign assets are largely dependent on their decisions on the exchange rate. That is the issue," said Taylor, adding the reason China buys US Treasury bonds is to prevent the exchange rate from appreciating so much.

The US federal budget deficit is expected to reach $1.4 trillion this year and stay high for several years. Congress is locked in tense negotiations over a deal to reduce the deficit and raise the $14.3 trillion debt limit under pressure from ratings agencies.

The deficit was built up in reaction to the global financial crisis, when the Federal Reserve also relaxed its monetary policy. Rates are virtually zero and the central bank has pumped cash into the economy by buying bonds, a program that is due to end this month.

China has never published its holdings of US Treasuries, but some economists have said as much as 70 percent of the country's foreign exchange reserves, which hit a record $3.05 trillion at the end of March, are parked in dollar assets.

China has been trying to diversify its reserves, the world's largest, away from the US dollar, but analysts say such diversification has been gradual.

Market conditions are favorable for China to forge ahead with market-based reforms of the yuan regime, Guan said, adding however that there is no basis for any sharp yuan rise.

"Recent improvements in the current account balance, especially in the trade balance, have shown that there is no basis for the yuan to appreciate significantly," Guan wrote.

As such, the timing is good now for China to improve the yuan exchange rate formation mechanism, he said without elaborating.

"The market conditions for two-way movement of the yuan exchange rate are gradually coming into existence," Guan said.

Separately, an adviser to the central bank called for yuan reforms in "a bold and decisive" fashion to reduce the central bank's massive foreign currency buying, which has pumped excessive cash into the economy and exacerbated inflation risk.

The central bank's dollar buying on the domestic market to keep the yuan exchange rate stable has been costly as such intervention fuels price rises, Zhou Qiren, who is also a professor at Peking University, said in comments published in the Economic Observer newspaper.

The yuan has gained 5.33 percent since it was depegged from the dollar in June 2010, and 1.65 percent since the start of this year.

Fan Jishe, a professor of American studies with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, said China should take a cautious approach in increasing its holdings of US bonds because if the US does not approve of a new debt ceiling, it would trigger worries in China of its dollar assets.

"The recent decision of the Congress could result in a tremendous cash back-flow to the US due to the country needs more greenback to stimulate its economy and employment," said Fan.

"But on the other hand, this is not bad news to China, because the cash back-flow to the US will ease China's inflationary pressure and reduce the market instability caused by 'hot money'."

China Daily reporters Zhang Yuwei and Zhong Nan contributed to this story.

Reuters
 
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China Official: It's Too Late, U.S. Already 'Defaulting'

Read more: China Official: It's Too Late, U.S. Already 'Defaulting' - FoxNews.com

As lawmakers scramble to cut a budget deal and avoid defaulting on U.S. debt, the head of a top Chinese rating agency claims it's too late.

Guan Jianzhong, president of Dagong Global Credit Rating Co. Ltd., reportedly told state media that the United States has already defaulted by letting the U.S. dollar weaken.

"In our opinion, the United States has already been defaulting," Guan was quoted as saying, according to AFP.

China, likewise, has long come under criticism for allowing its currency to weaken. But while Dagong Global is known for being tough on the U.S., Guan's words carry extra sting as they follow warnings from three top rating agencies about U.S. finances.

Fitch is the latest to warn the U.S. that its sterling credit rating could be at risk if it fails to raise its $14.3 trillion debt ceiling or fails to rein in its long-term deficits.

Moody's and Standard & Poor's have already issued similar warnings.

Meanwhile, lawmakers and White House officials are stepping up the pace of budget negotiations as they try to reach a deal that will persuade Congress to lift the debt ceiling by Aug. 2 -- the deadline Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner has given lawmakers. After that date, Geithner warns, he would run out of ways to avoid a devastating default on U.S. obligations.

Some Republicans, while wanting to avoid default, claim the administration could extend that deadline further by making severe and immediate spending cuts elsewhere.

Read more: China Official: It's Too Late, U.S. Already 'Defaulting' - FoxNews.com
 
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U.S. Debt Ceiling Fight Worries Creditors in India, China, Christian News

U.S. Debt Ceiling Fight Worries Creditors in India, China


The possibility of a U.S. debt default is causing concerns within financial circles in Asian powers China and India, and officials warn that this may erode the world's confidence in the robustness of the U.S. economy.

Indians are divided over the possibility and the implications of the likely debt default. In response to a related news item in one of India's leading financial dailies, The Economic Times, a reader questions the approach being pondered over by U.S. congressmen saying that a technical default will lead the economy into a rut and will not cure the root cause.

Where one reader believes that the U.S. will not default because it will slow down development the world over, and will pave way for China to be a superpower, another opines that the U.S., in fact, should default and "demonstrate the real situation [regarding the economy]." Yet another says, "The Fed has ruined a great nation. There is no way they can pay this debt back as their earnings are less than the accrued interest."

An official at India's central bank, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, was quoted by Reuters as saying, "We don't think [debt default] is a possibility because this could then create huge panic globally."

Indian officials say they have little choice but to buy U.S. Treasury debt because it is still among the world's safest and most liquid investments. It held $39.8 billion in U.S. Treasuries as of March, U.S. data shows.

In Washington, Vice President Joe Biden on Thursday held a closed-door meeting with congressional negotiators on the nation's debt limit.


Despite the vice president's efforts, both Democrats and Republicans are "dug in over their views about the best course of action. Democrats believe cutting jobs in a weak economy may be unwise; Republicans argue spending cuts and deficit control are the key to economic growth," according to The Los Angeles Times.

The meeting comes after news broke out this week that a growing number of mainstream Republicans had agreed to a possible technical debt default, i.e., delaying of interest payments for a few days.

Li Daokui, adviser to the People's Bank of China, said a default could undermine the U.S. dollar, and Washington needs to be dissuaded from pursuing this course of action.

"The result [of a possible U.S. debt default] will be very serious and I really hope that they would stop playing with fire," Li said, according to Reuters.

"I really worry about the risks of a U.S. debt default, which I think may lead to a decline in the dollar's value," Li was quoted as saying.

China is the largest foreign creditor to the United States, holding more than $1 trillion in Treasury debt as of March, U.S. data shows, so its concerns carry considerable weight in Washington.

Whether it is a lack of choice or a still-lingering trust in American economy, the world hopes that the U.S. will find a way to avoid pushing it into another huge global crisis.

Marc Ostwald, a strategist with Monument Securities in London, was quoted by Reuters as saying that markets were working on the assumption that the U.S. debt story "will go away." But nervousness would grow if a resolution was not reached in the next five to six weeks.

The stalemate reported after the Thursday meeting led by the vice president will not allay the growing fears of financial markets in Asia and the rest of the world.

President Barack Obama has been seeking to win congressional approval to raise the nation's debt ceiling before an Aug. 2 deadline. Meanwhile, Republican lawmakers are pressing for major spending cuts by the government and see minor delays as a strategy to force the federal government to do exactly that.
 

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