US Congress stalls F-16 sale to Pakistan

Discussion in 'Pakistan' started by Navneet Kundu, Jan 12, 2016.

  1. Navneet Kundu

    Navneet Kundu Regular Member

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    WASHINGTON: The US Congress has stalled a planned sale of eight new F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, although the Obama administration is still trying to undo the hold, congressional and diplomatic sources told Dawn.

    The hold reflects the growing anti-Pakistan sentiments on Capitol Hill where it is now a routine to see strong attacks on Pakistan and its policies during congressional hearings.

    Lawmakers used clarification and information notices to delay the sale. The administration also received a “hold” notice from the Senate, using this legislative process to delay floor action on the proposed sale to Pakistan.

    The hold, however, does not kill the measure and it can still go through if the administration continues to push for it. Sources on the Hill say that since the Obama administration is keen on selling these aircraft to Pakistan, it may ultimately succeed in undoing the hold.

    At recent congressional hearings, key US lawmakers raised a host of questions about the end use of the F-16 aircraft and about the US relationship with Pakistan.

    “I don’t know how an F-16, with all of its hardware on there for combat can be used for humanitarian aid. If they were buying C-130s … I could see those being used for humanitarian aid. But F-16! It’s not really humanitarian aid,” said Congressman Ted Poe. “Those F-16s and the military equipment that we are providing Pakistan are being used against their own people, just like they did against the people over there in Bangladesh,” said Congressman Dan Rohrabacher.

    Both lawmakers belong to a growing lobby in Congress which not only oppose arms sales to Pakistan but often urge the US administration to sever its ties with the country. Usually, such lawmakers are also active in the Indian caucus on Capitol Hill.

    Pakistan does have a caucus on the Hill but it is small and ineffective. The Indian caucus, however, has grown gradually in size and influence and is now the second most effective lobby after Israel’s.

    Diplomatic sources acknowledged that lawmakers had placed a hold on the proposed sale. They said the Obama administration ‘informally’ notified Congress of its intention to sell eight F-16s to Pakistan during Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s visit to Washington last October.

    The administration followed it up with a formal notification of “foreign military financing” to fund the sale in early December. The next, and final, stage would have been a formal notification of sale. But this process has been stalled by lawmakers, using clarifications notifications and at least on legislative hold placed by a Democratic senator.

    Source : DAWN

    So, basically the congress is trying to stall the sale while the negro from Kenya being a closeted jihadi is trying his best to sell F16s to Pakistan. F16s which can be used as a potent delivery mechanism for nuclear warheads, knowing very well that the US department has come out with a damning report about Pakistan's growing nuclear arsenal just a few weeks ago. Well done, USA, the champion of human values and international law.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2016
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  3. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Just political drama. US using what little leverage they have. No big deal for pak when Chinese ready to supply (free)


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
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  4. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Well, Americans are learning from past mistakes.
    When they were helping China against Soviets, they didn't let anyone stans against China. They don't wanna repeat it with India.
    Anyway, we are also developing SAMs to counter them. Wish that work gets completed on time.
     
  5. ezsasa

    ezsasa Senior Member Senior Member

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    Remember they are stalling the sale not cancelling ....
     
  6. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Pakis still prefer f16 over chini shit
     
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  7. Bengal_Tiger

    Bengal_Tiger Regular Member

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    No big deal, if the Americans wanted to they could easily pull the plug on the whole Pakistan project. Impose sanctions, refuse to give much needed handouts which the Pakistanis need to survive and bribe cheap regional leaders such as the PPP's Zardari to opt for separation. Zardari would be happy to be king of Sindh rather than have to wait every couple of years to "rule" and loot Pakistan.

    However the whole Pakistan project and Pakistani army is supported massively by the Americans who turn a blind eye to the Pakistanis, as a Muslim I could tell you what would have happened if another Muslim country had been found hosting Bin Laden.

    Anyway the American ability to weaken/end Pakistan is weakening as the American-led unipolar world is now giving way to a multi-polar world order with a Sino-Russian axis as the dominant power and both the Russians and Chinese want a stable, unified Pakistan.
     
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  8. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

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    You can watch the entire video here. it happened just a few weeks ago in late December 2015. I found it to be a very good watch.



    Actually this is a big deal because I get the feelings Indians don't really understand the heavy anti-Pakistani sentiment in America. Obama has been working with the Pakistanis but only because he like Bush felt the USA really had no alternative in Afghanistan. As soon as the USA is fully out of Afghanistan, expect a little pay back. Watching the video can really help with the American mentality towards Pakistan.

    While Pakistan can buy jets from China, the USA was giving the far superior F-16's at pretty much donation prices, so this would definitely be a significant loss to Pakistan.

    The Jewish lobby tends to work with the Indian lobby in the USA, combined with anti-Muslim/Pakistan sentiment, and a growing rivalry with China, India can pretty much expect growing American support in the future.

    Obama is not a Muslim or a Pakistani fan or sympathizer, he just feels that America currently has no options but to work with Pakistan so they can accomplish their objectives in Afghanistan.
     
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  9. Bengal_Tiger

    Bengal_Tiger Regular Member

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    ^

    @PP (Previous poster)

    Out of curiousity are you an American (as in American not of Indian origin)?

    I have a differing view. Anti-Muslim sentiment or whatever that doesn't stop the US from being very buddy buddy with the far more fundamentalist Saudis.

    US foreign policy is determined not by lobbies (though they have a minor input) but fundamentally by an oligarchy in power (regardless of whichever millionaire is in the white house) consisting of academics, "Intel-officers (spies), and others.

    US position towards Saudi has not changed since 9/11 and in fact even in a country like Bangladesh, the Americans are very supportive of the local brotherhood outfit there, Jamaat e Islami.

    The Americans are very fond of Pakistan and are more than happy to see it be a cause of instability in the region and leverage against India.

    Btw just to add: The whole world including America knows the Pakistanis run the Taliban who are fighting Afghanistan, but what do the Americans do? Nothing. Rather they host people like Raheel Sharif in a recent visit and generally have a favourable policy towards Pakistan.
     
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  10. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    But on internet, don't the call Chinese fighters intergalactic space warships with alien technology? :rofl:
     
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  11. Sylex21

    Sylex21 Regular Member

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    I'm of Indian origin, but I was very young when I moved here at the age of 5.

    It is more of an anti-Muslim bias. All other things being equal Americans will be more suspicious of Muslim countries, but personal interest is still the most important factor. Most Americans don't like Saudi Arabia, but the American government still allies with it for reasons of self interest. However it is important to note that American public opinion can strongly influence policy in the long run.

    I assure you Americans are NOT fond of Pakistan. Just check out the latest pew polls or go out and talk to a large group of Americans. Americans in the past have been fond of using Pakistan to keep India occupied, but a lot has changed since the fall of the Soviet Union. With the rise of terrorism as a threat and China being seen as the principle rival, India is now seen as serving in America's best interests.

    If you actually watch the linked video, you will understand better what Americans call the Pakistani dual game. More than the Taliban the Americans care about Al'Queda and other terrorists focused on the west. Pakistan's support is needed for drone strikes against terrorists in Pakistan and to allow large quantities of supplies into Afghanistan. Americans don't really care about Afghanistan, they just don't want to be blamed for an immediate collapse as soon as they leave. Once the USA no longer needs Pakistan, you can expect that policy to swing very negatively against Pakistan. The video demonstrates true American feelings and current frustration with "Pakistan being the only game in town," when it comes to Afghanistan.

    Ultimately American foreign policy is going to swing to a sort of cold war 2.0 against China. As Pakistan is firmly in the China camp, it is likely to enter greater conflict with the United States in the future.
     
  12. sorcerer

    sorcerer Senior Member Senior Member

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    :D
    Chini Shit is for sale...
    f-16 is for paki use..
    :D
    jindagi aur maut ka sawal hai :D
    Pakis dont want to be flying fcks (read ducks) in case.. :D

    Anyway
    Our forces will blow them out of the skies f-16 or otherwise.
     
  13. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    America is self serving of course as Pakistan is always needed to keep indian aspiration in check to become one of polars. It's a wishful thinking that America would have its guard off when India seems a useful counter balance to China for the time being. As for China Pakistan is a gateway to Mid East and the Indian Ocean.

    OFFSHORE BALANCING is a strategic concept used in realist analysis in international relations. It describes a strategy where a great power uses favored regional powers to check the rise of potential hostile powers.

    ~~Still waters run deep. ~~from my MiPad using tapatalk
     
  14. Bengal_Tiger

    Bengal_Tiger Regular Member

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    The US plays divide and rule with everyone even their fellow white European Christian brothers.

    - Keep China bogged down with India (as well as Japan, South Korea, Uighur separatism thus tension with Turkey etc).

    - Keep India bogged down with Pakistan, mass Christianization of the north east and attempt to support Islamists in Bangladesh (Jamaat e Islami but this failed and there is an India-friendly govt in Bangladesh).

    - Keep Pakistan bogged down with Balochistan (which US politicians sometimes express support for i.e. the Balochis), tension with Afghanistan (the government there is dependent on the US) etc.

    The US wanted tension between Bangladesh and India but the Indians worked hard to support their allies in the Awami League who are now clamping down heavily on Jamaatis. The US wants a strong Islamist movement in Bangladesh (political Islamists as opposed to just genuinely religious moral people) to be a source of conflict between India and Bangladesh. Fortunately this has failed and these two states (Bangladesh and India) can get on with the important business of poverty alleviation and economic development which requires good neighbourly relations.

    Anyway the Americans have absolute max another 20 years (actually much less, even in Bangladesh their power was limited as India insisted on an Awami league government, apparently the humiliation of an Indian female diplomat in the US was partly caused due to that and other factors) while they can play divide and rule as unchallenged global top dog.
     
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  15. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    True that.
    If I'm not wrong, Westerners also helped China to rise against Soviets(case is different that China remained neutral and advantages of both west and Soviets).
    And if you can see, India follows same policy. Taking advantage of opportunity and getting help from westerners like China still gets from Russia.
    But you can see we still obstruct them. Never became pro western.
    :D
     
  16. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    help? well, to be precise it's all abt business. there have been trade-offs on equal footings but never freebies. no love lost no love found. economically China has opened up and got rid of red tapes so western investors have been propspering then win-win, but again no free lunch. see the difference btwn your mentality and mine?

    Chinese r very pragmatic in realpolitik, quite similar to Americans and Britons in a way. I'm all out for further integration with the West despite traumas from time to time (China still under arms embargo) - first with Japan and Korea (CJK). u see, UK was among the first to become one of founding members of AIIB and IMF admitted RMB to SDr.

    an opportunistic India is nothing new. even during the cold war era India was playing both sides Soviet and US pretty well. now u pay for what u get ~ but ToT? no way!

    ~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
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  17. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Ya ya, like China wasn't taking support of West against USSR and not imported their weapons.
    You call India opportunist? o_O
    You guys yourself copied Su27(as J11) and IAI LAVI(as J10) without permission of associated countries.
    Anyway, I'm not taunting you. Open your history books, all countries become jerks after gaining power.
    Westerners always cheat other countries as well as each other. Keep spying on each other.
    Russians ignored Indians because they were more comfortable with China.
    India got closure to US(Biggest trouble maker for India in international politics. They always sanction us without reason) inestment requirements.
    And even China took soft loan from Japan.(it's heartily enemy). :lol:
    There's nothing called morality in international scenario. Everyone has to put it's interests. Who can't, they end up miserably.
    Your government, my government and other countries' governments are mature about this but looks that you are suffering from Good Being Syndrome. :rofl:
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
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  18. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    mind u no free meals ~ those "support" was paid for.

    the schism with Soviet dated back to 1962 when it openly sided with India. also Soviet was irked for fear that it could be dragged into the conflict with US when PRC shelled Kinmen Island which Taiwan ROC controlled and was backed by the 7th fleet.

    I have no qualms abt "copying" Su or Lavi if u do believe reverse engineering is like sesame

    ~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
     
  19. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Just a few selected chapters from history?
    Every country changed it's political alignment for national interests.
    American supporting you guys when you were at flame with Soviets (the real topic).:grin:
    Whatever.
    I've also not any problem with that. I said so because you called my country opportunist. specially then, when your own country is destroying defense industry of your beat friend and even not paying them for copyright. :biggrin2:
     
  20. salute

    salute Senior Member Senior Member

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    waste of time,its all. :blah: :blah::blah:
     
  21. dhananjay1

    dhananjay1 Regular Member

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    There is no sign of US changing his policy towards Pakistan. This is just a temporary move to make a show of concern. US will keep supporting Pakistan militarily.
     

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