US cannot accept China military power

[captonjohn]

so? every state and province have flags as well. btw, Taiwan is under their own flag during international sports events?

also, you forget? you claim US succeed because China didnt implement 1 china policy? (which already is a vague useless claim) so what happens now that you realize China did and the US does accept 1 china policy?

Don't compare US with China in this matter. US has federal system and hence he has allowed separate flag to his states but they don't say that we will be independent from USA and they proudly respect US National flag. Does this happens with Taiwan? NO! Taiwan wants freedom from china and here is the difference. If taiwan accept chinese national flag as its national flag and declare itself as a chinese part then having multiple flags is not a problem. If china has enough control then why taiwan is able to receive military hardware from USA avoiding chinese reaction?

 

[captonjohn]

the fatal weakness of India is the lack of full industry chains.....

frankly speaking, China under the rule of Mao could developed nuke subs in 1970s..while India can not even now.

And there is difference between development and copying. Haven't china replicated a lot of russian military hardware? Check this link: http://wareye.com/russian-said-chin...ing-rate-advanced-missiles-in-only-five-years

 

[neo29]

It is not the question of US accepts or not. The question is that the world must not accept a communist state as a major military power. Unfortunately thats what we are going to see in some years and the return of cold war.

 

[JustForLaughs]

Don't compare US with China in this matter. US has federal system and hence he has allowed separate flag to his states but they don't say that we will be independent from USA and they proudly respect US National flag. Does this happens with Taiwan? NO! Taiwan wants freedom from china and here is the difference. If taiwan accept chinese national flag as its national flag and declare itself as a chinese part then having multiple flags is not a problem. If china has enough control then why taiwan is able to receive military hardware from USA avoiding chinese reaction?

if taiwan was already independent what do you mean they want freedom from china? because every important country in the world accept 1 china policy, thats is why. it is also why the original statement was not just a moot point (in that whether 1 china policy is accepted or not means someone "wins") but also an incorrect statement as US does accept 1 china policy (which according to LF logic, China "wins". wins what? only LF knows)

who said china has enough control? when taiwan is back with china as a province it will be enough control LOL.

anyway, this is simply about having different flags which is a ridiculous point as flags are used to represent all sorts of levels of government and political entitys.

 

[Yusuf]

the fatal weakness of India is the lack of full industry chains.....

frankly speaking, China under the rule of Mao could developed nuke subs in 1970s..while India can not even now.

Han Class. A joke of a nuke sub. Arihant will come to town soon. dont worry about it.

 

[BunBunCake]

Han Class. A joke of a nuke sub. Arihant will come to town soon. dont worry about it.

It was better than what India had at that time. (Nuke sub = still nuke sub)

 

[Tshering22]

You know, the only sensible strategy I found in this article is that of China's strategy for going for cheaper and effective counter to US carriers-- carrier- killer missiles. All know that missiles are far more cheaper and effective method of countering anything. As such owing to the numerical obsession of Communist thinking, this is an advantage here that PLAN can station hundreds of CK missiles on their specific coastal zones covered with short range SAM batteries to prevent USN's Superbugs from striking and neutralizing these missiles. As much as I would hate to usually blow Chinese military development out of proportion, this is a credible threat if Chinese can master the guidance tech of missiles to strike a moving target that moves at roughly + or - 30 knots/hr.

Regarding US not accepting China as a replacement power, I would say that China is still miles away and the simple reason why US is up in arms about Chinese is because of the latter's secrecy in everything and effective propaganda machine. Though Chinese ICBMs can reach US cities, it is impossible to even imagine the intensity of retaliation.

But a fact is there; US is a dying superpower and in a couple of decades, its influence will continue to wane. CCP is smart in knowing this timeline and is hence using economy to snatch US allies. The recent move by Chinese to buy billions of debt from Spain was a smart move. If the Chinese repeat that with Greeks, I am sure that the two countries cannot rule our military tech transfers should Chinese make such a demand no matter what US says.
NATO is not afterall in a harmonious state since European militaries are tiny (except France and UK all the rest are for show) and have suffered a lot in WOT.

 

[lurker]

CHina's per capital GDP is only 1/10 of USA while Yankees are not wiser than Chinese but are more lazy than Chinese.
Exactly what do you base this BS on?
working-hard and the courage to challenge the unknown is the ultimate way to create wealth and upgrade the society.
Well that has historically been and still is a particular strength of America, despite, and perhaps because of the recession. Creativity through adversity and all that. The stigma China has with copying comes to mind on your quote
When columbus adventured and Yankees' went wild west, the ancestors of west countries were the people working hardest and had more courage to challenge the unknow on the earth..that was why west civiliazion could upgrade fastest and dominate the world at that time.So what ideas have come from China? What has China done that no one's thought of, or that no one has done in a similar capacity?

But now, west people are just those weak pet birds protected by a golden cage called "welfare sate".
Matter of perception, as these 'weak' 'west people' are still the ones pushing the boundaries today.

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[shuvo@y2k10]

@badguy
china unvieled its first nuclear sub in 1970's and till 2011 it has only 10.ussr unvieled its first nuclear sub in 1957 and produced 245 of them until 1997.we all know the chinese has an obsession with numbers so shouldn't it have manufactured more subs even though not on a scale compared to ussr.it also shows the poor quality of nuclear submaries of the pla-navy that they too do not fieel the need of inducting more number inferior and costly chinese nuclear submarines.

 

[badguy2000]

@badguy
china unvieled its first nuclear sub in 1970's and till 2011 it has only 10.ussr unvieled its first nuclear sub in 1957 and produced 245 of them until 1997.we all know the chinese has an obsession with numbers so shouldn't it have manufactured more subs even though not on a scale compared to ussr.it also shows the poor quality of nuclear submaries of the pla-navy that they too do not fieel the need of inducting more number inferior and costly chinese nuclear submarines.

that is why USSR collapsed while China is uprising!

 

[Armand2REP]

only when USA can overpowered China can such success be on.....

Once power balance change to a certain extent, such "success" would be collapse just like the collapse of Soviet union and the dominance of US dollar.

If you want to talk about stability of a country, a Chinaman is the last person to be talking about it. No major country is more on the edge of being politically unstable. Everyone now is talking about this high inflation and how they have to shop in Hong Kong to afford anything. Really it is like 50% of what they are talking about at the dinner table. Rather sick of it at this point. People get any more ticked off and their will be mass protests, students already doing it at the hike in food prices.

 

[JustForLaughs]

If you want to talk about stability of a country, a Chinaman is the last person to be talking about it. No major country is more on the edge of being politically unstable. Everyone now is talking about this high inflation and how they have to shop in Hong Kong to afford anything. Really it is like 50% of what they are talking about at the dinner table. Rather sick of it at this point. People get any more ticked off and their will be mass protests, students already doing it at the hike in food prices.

and do you know anything about inflation? or economics in general? or students and their propensity to protest over anything and everything?

since when was inflation indication of stability in country? 1 party rule is actually quite secure.

you want to talk about inflation?

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Inflation-CPI.aspx?symbol=CNY

vs

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Inflation-CPI.aspx?symbol=INR

get more perspective.
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Inflation-CPI.aspx?symbol=KRW
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Inflation-CPI.aspx?Symbol=RUB
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/Inflation-CPI.aspx?Symbol=GBP


even funnier. what do you think central banks are for? what do you think fiscal policy is for? even first year econ course teaches how to combat inflation. but you listen to this guy and you think it means a country could collapse.

 

[Armand2REP]

and do you know anything about inflation? or economics in general? or students and their propensity to protest over anything and everything?

since when was inflation indication of stability in country? 1 party rule is actually quite secure.

What do I know about economics? I have completed the tripos and a professional micro-economist working in Canton. What do you know about it that you do not know inflation is the #1 issue for CCP and one of the largest factors of public satisfaction with the regime? Apparently not much...

you want to talk about inflation?

I have to go shopping in Hong Kong to get deals, that is how bad inflation is on the mainland. I know how bad it is, I live it.

even funnier. what do you think central banks are for? what do you think fiscal policy is for? even first year econ course teaches how to combat inflation. but you listen to this guy and you think it means a country could collapse.

You don't even know how PBOC fights inflation. Instead of raising interest rates any significant amount, which is the only serious way to combat it, they think raising reserve requirements are going to make a difference. Keep listening to you and China will go double digit. lol

 

[JustForLaughs]

What do I know about economics? I have completed the tripos and a professional micro-economist working in Canton. What do you know about it that you do not know inflation is the #1 issue for CCP and one of the largest factors of public satisfaction with the regime? Apparently not much...



I have to go shopping in Hong Kong to get deals, that is how bad inflation is on the mainland. I know how bad it is, I live it.




You don't even know how PBOC fights inflation. Instead of raising interest rates any significant amount, which is the only serious way to combat it, they think raising reserve requirements are going to make a difference. Keep listening to you and China will go double digit. lol

YOU are professional economist? i doubt that.

1. "During China's last inflationary cycle, the government tackled the issue aggressively, raising interest rates eight times by a total of 189 basis points over a 21-month period from April 2006 to December 2007. Nevertheless, inflation continued to rise, peaking in February 2008 at 8.7 per cent."

Read more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2011/201101/20110113/article_461375.htm#ixzz1AxTrBppX


2. China to let yuan rise 5% in 2011: paper
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-01/05/content_11799247.htm

^ you would probably have seen me post this before, but in another thread some fool go offtopic and i think whole pages were deleted. including my post which was 100% relevant btw.


so to summarize. you dont seem to know how China has dealt with inflation before, they have raised interest rates, raising interest rates is hardly the "only serious" way to combat inflation (ie. yuan appreciation). so tell me again your quali?

 

[niharjhatn]

that is why USSR collapsed while China is uprising!

The US (and the rest of the democratic western world with it) were hell bent on destroying communist rule. China has not yet faced the same level of enmity yet. This animosity was coupled with Gorbachev's aims to reform the USSR (Glasnost and Perestroika), as well as the fact that Gorbachev was an incredibly popular character in the US (yes, the US) and enjoyed a level of friendship not enjoyed by any other Soviet leader - he felt that a more 'democratic' leadership was the best way forward, in contrast to the views of many of the other soviet elite.

And let's not forget their war in Afghanistan, which proved to be more destructive to the Soviet Union than Vietnam was for the US. The losses Russia sustained in that war not only to its personnel but also to its prestige and morale was one of the final nails in the coffin, as the USSR began to lose control over its satellite states, which ultimately led to its collapse.

The point being - the context was far different!!

 

[Armand2REP]

YOU are professional economist? i doubt that.

I am an industry analyst which is a professional micro-economist.

1. "During China's last inflationary cycle, the government tackled the issue aggressively, raising interest rates eight times by a total of 189 basis points over a 21-month period from April 2006 to December 2007. Nevertheless, inflation continued to rise, peaking in February 2008 at 8.7 per cent."

Read more: http://www.shanghaidaily.com/sp/article/2011/201101/20110113/article_461375.htm#ixzz1AxTrBppX

189 basis points is only 1.89%. For a rise in interest rates, that is NOTHING. If you knew anything about economics, you would know how little they are worth.

2. China to let yuan rise 5% in 2011: paper
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2011-01/05/content_11799247.htm

China hasn't done much of anything yet. Don't post future predictions as fact.

^ you would probably have seen me post this before, but in another thread some fool go offtopic and i think whole pages were deleted. including my post which was 100% relevant btw.

I don't care if you try to defend CCP economic policy. I would just suggest you understand what you are posting first.

so to summarize. you dont seem to know how China has dealt with inflation before, they have raised interest rates, raising interest rates is hardly the "only serious" way to combat inflation (ie. yuan appreciation). so tell me again your quali?

Tell me your qualification when you think 189 basis points is any major move. :balle:

 

[badguy2000]

The US (and the rest of the democratic western world with it) were hell bent on destroying communist rule. China has not yet faced the same level of enmity yet. This animosity was coupled with Gorbachev's aims to reform the USSR (Glasnost and Perestroika), as well as the fact that Gorbachev was an incredibly popular character in the US (yes, the US) and enjoyed a level of friendship not enjoyed by any other Soviet leader - he felt that a more 'democratic' leadership was the best way forward, in contrast to the views of many of the other soviet elite.

And let's not forget their war in Afghanistan, which proved to be more destructive to the Soviet Union than Vietnam was for the US. The losses Russia sustained in that war not only to its personnel but also to its prestige and morale was one of the final nails in the coffin, as the USSR began to lose control over its satellite states, which ultimately led to its collapse.

The point being - the context was far different!!

the ultimate reason of Soviet's collapse is that Gorbachev took a wrong routine to reform ...

Gorbachev indeed is popular in west,just because he destroyed west's biggest rival.

If Obama were to destroy USA,He would be very popular among CHinese too.

 

[niharjhatn]

the ultimate reason of Soviet's collapse is that Gorbachev took a wrong routine to reform ...

Gorbachev indeed is popular in west,just because he destroyed west's biggest rival.

If Obama were to destroy USA,He would be very popular among CHinese too.

Gorbachev was popular BEFORE he broke up the Soviet Union. It was not because of his views of managing the soviet union, but because he was a very likable PERSON - he routinely would respect Americans for what they were, and even did simple things like talk to and joke with the people driving him around (when he visited the US) as well as the common citizens of the US - something unheard of among previous Soviet leaders. What was even more impressive was that this was in a period of heightened cold war tensions after the relative stability of detente in the 70's.

The point you were implying was that China > USSR as China hasn't collapsed yet - however, as I stated, the context was FAR different - China has no satellite states under its control to speak of (except Tibet and Pakistan, LOL! and the CCP's attempts to steal AP). The Kremlin's inability to continue its control over their satellite states is what ultimately led to the break up of the Soviet Union.

The US - implied by you as China's biggest rival - has a unique relationship with China, not only from economic ties, but think of the generations of Chinese who have been migrating to the US for a century, as well as all of those that migrate their permanently today, or go to study etc.

This was not the case in the Cold War era, where Russians = Commies and Commies = scum of the Earth.

 

[JustForLaughs]

I am an industry analyst which is a professional micro-economist.



189 basis points is only 1.89%. For a rise in interest rates, that is NOTHING. If you knew anything about economics, you would know how little they are worth.



China hasn't done much of anything yet. Don't post future predictions as fact.



I don't care if you try to defend CCP economic policy. I would just suggest you understand what you are posting first.




Tell me your qualification when you think 189 basis points is any major move. :balle:

you should know better. when an official chinese newspaper say China is going to do something it typically happens. but fine, that wasnt my point. read again if you missed it.

simple fact, China has let the yuan appreciate before under its floating peg system.

so in summary, no, China is very stable with 1 party gov. China's inflation hardly proves anything for instability especially when China purposely keeps its currency undervalued. raising interest is NOT the only way to combat inflation. the reserve ratio DOES fight inflation because it reduces how much money is in circulation and is NOT the only way China fight inflation.

any questions "professional" economist let me know.

 

[badguy2000]

Gorbachev was popular BEFORE he broke up the Soviet Union. It was not because of his views of managing the soviet union, but because he was a very likable PERSON - he routinely would respect Americans for what they were, and even did simple things like talk to and joke with the people driving him around (when he visited the US) as well as the common citizens of the US - something unheard of among previous Soviet leaders. What was even more impressive was that this was in a period of heightened cold war tensions after the relative stability of detente in the 70's.

The point you were implying was that China > USSR as China hasn't collapsed yet - however, as I stated, the context was FAR different - China has no satellite states under its control to speak of (except Tibet and Pakistan, LOL! and the CCP's attempts to steal AP). The Kremlin's inability to continue its control over their satellite states is what ultimately led to the break up of the Soviet Union.

The US - implied by you as China's biggest rival - has a unique relationship with China, not only from economic ties, but think of the generations of Chinese who have been migrating to the US for a century, as well as all of those that migrate their permanently today, or go to study etc.

This was not the case in the Cold War era, where Russians = Commies and Commies = scum of the Earth.

so, that is what your education told you?....en,it shows me exactly how "great free medias" and "west educaiton system" brainwash people!

have you really read any book written by Marx? have you really studied the history of communism?

BTW,