Under-defended India

[sasi]

the IAF has lobbied relentlessly for expensive foreign aircraft.
Consider: The cost of 126 Rafales is some $18 billion; 250 Indo-Russian fifth-generation fighters will cost$30-35 billion; and 100-odd Sukhoi-30MKI will cost $10 billion. Add another $10 billionfor C-17 Globemaster III, C-130J Super Hercules and replacing the Avro; $3-4 billion for trainers; and$10-15 billion for the light, utility and combat helicopters currently being procured. That takes the IAF's aircraft purchases to $81-92 billion over the next 10-15 years. Ifthe IAF condescends to buy a few squadrons of Tejas LCA, its shopping list will kiss $100billion.
This wish list is an unaffordable fantasy given the IAF's modernisation budget is $5.7 billion this year. And, given that an aircraft's purchase price is just 20-25% of its life-cycle cost, the MoD should have warned the IAF off costly foreign procurement and towards indigenous design, development and manufacture.Instead, there are pro forma statements, like "whatever our brave soldiers need for defending the country will be made available."
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.in/2013/08/under-defended-india.html

 

[p2prada]

the IAF has lobbied relentlessly for expensive foreign aircraft.
Consider: The cost of 126 Rafales is some $18 billion; 250 Indo-Russian fifth-generation fighters will cost$30-35 billion; and 100-odd Sukhoi-30MKI will cost $10 billion. Add another $10 billionfor C-17 Globemaster III, C-130J Super Hercules and replacing the Avro; $3-4 billion for trainers; and$10-15 billion for the light, utility and combat helicopters currently being procured. That takes the IAF's aircraft purchases to $81-92 billion over the next 10-15 years. Ifthe IAF condescends to buy a few squadrons of Tejas LCA, its shopping list will kiss $100billion.
This wish list is an unaffordable fantasy given the IAF's modernisation budget is $5.7 billion this year. And, given that an aircraft's purchase price is just 20-25% of its life-cycle cost, the MoD should have warned the IAF off costly foreign procurement and towards indigenous design, development and manufacture.Instead, there are pro forma statements, like "whatever our brave soldiers need for defending the country will be made available."
Broadsword: Under-defended India

Yeah right, and Indian actually plans to spend over $100 Billion in the current five year plan. The $100 Billion over 15 years will balloon to $300 Billion by the end of the decade.

Ajai Shukla should wake up and smell the roses.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In War, Only those win who are able to keep up with causalities, One must able to make fighters at much higher rate than they get shot down, Sadly IAF cannot do this as it rely entirely on foreign fighters which are in majority imported so does there majority of spares..

IAF also have no plans for reserve pilot force either, In case of war, Like fighter one must able to replace pilots..

==================

In modern warfare, Victory lies in factories not at battlefields..

Self reliance is a vital factor which IAF haven't realized yet, And if its not realized soon it will be the cause of major failure ..

the IAF has lobbied relentlessly for expensive foreign aircraft.

 

[sayareakd]

In War, Only those win who are able to keep up with causalities, One must able to make fighters at much higher rate than they get shot down, Sadly IAF cannot do this as it rely entirely on foreign fighters which are in majority imported so does there majority of spares..

IAF also have no plans for reserve pilot force either, In case of war, Like fighter one must able to replace pilots..

==================

In modern warfare, Victory lies in factories not at battlefields..

Self reliance is a vital factor which IAF haven't realized yet, And if its not realized soon it will be the cause of major failure ..

Sir we have to see enemy factory and what number they can come up against us.

 

[Ray]

One need not look at the enemy's factories, but one has to see the friends of the enemy, who will fill in the blanks.

China is way ahead, while Pakistan has her loyal friends who not only send equipment but also with the crew!

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

One need not look at the enemy's factories, but one has to see the friends of the enemy, who will fill in the blanks.

China is way ahead, while Pakistan has her loyal friends who not only send equipment but also with the crew!

We have Russia on our side who can at least provide us with spare parts and extra ammunition and that is enough as we have our engineers. We get the original stuff from Russia, which are reliable than what pakistan gets from the chinese, as they get the reverse engineered stuff of the same Russian tech which we get but of a cheaper quality. So, my point is at least we have something better.....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

We have to catch up until then the heading of the article stay corrected ..

China is way ahead

 

[sasi]

edit

We have Russia on our side who can at least provide us with spare parts and extra ammunition and that is enough as we have our engineers. We get the original stuff from Russia, which are reliable than what pakistan gets from the chinese, as they get the reverse engineered stuff of the same Russian tech which we get but of a cheaper quality. So, my point is at least we have something better.....

Yes we have good ties with Russia. Russia isn't soviet union. When it comes between India-china, they will stay neutral. At war times, if we ask for help.
Any country will always prefer their national interest (both economical and miltary first).
Also it comes to delievery of spares from Russia is the worst. In wartime, we can only pray.

 

[vishwaprasad]

Just imagine 270 MKIs and 200 Rafales....ohh my god what a nightmare for any enemy....

 

[Vishwarupa]

Just imagine 270 MKIs and 200 Rafales....ohh my god what a nightmare for any enemy....

With current state of affairs we can only imagine & masturbate.

Reality would be otherwise with delays in procuring which will ultimately leads to scam & politician getting away.

Shame on our system.

 

[vishwaprasad]

^^ sad truth

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Will look incredible formidable, But not all the strength can be used over one front ..

Lets say 150mki & 150 rafales at start , In war the number could go below 100mki and 100 rafales due to combat loses at the same time China will be chunking out 100 J-10 and J-11 a month ..

At the end of the day, Who will have air superiority ? there is not much to guess..

Just imagine 270 MKIs and 200 Rafales....ohh my god what a nightmare for any enemy....

 

[HeinzGud]

Will look incredible formidable, But not all the strength can be used over one front ..

Lets say 150mki & 150 rafales at start , In war the number could go below 100mki and 100 rafales due to combat loses at the same time China will be chunking out 100 J-10 and J-11 a month ..

At the end of the day, Who will have air superiority ? there is not much to guess..

I do feel that the sub continent is having a tendency to love foreign objects. Maybe a because of our colonial mentality.

Anyways under current status of affairs China undoubtedly has a upper hand. I do not think Russia will ever come to the aid of India in a war with China.

India's best option is to go with China otherwise getting into the war path with them.

P.S.
Can anyone enlighten me on what is the cause of the Indo-China enmity?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Its not about colonial past, I would suggest you at-least read the article posted at first post of this thread to understand what is been talked here ..

Open wiki or open other thread to discuss that topic, This is not specific Indo-China thread ..

I do feel that the sub continent is having a tendency to love foreign objects. Maybe a because of our colonial mentality.

Anyways under current status of affairs China undoubtedly has a upper hand. I do not think Russia will ever come to the aid of India in a war with China.

India's best option is to go with China otherwise getting into the war path with them.

P.S.
Can anyone enlighten me on what is the cause of the Indo-China enmity?

 

[JBH22]

The Modern Vikram Betal story

It was dark in the dense electoral jungle. King Manmohan Vikram Singh stood amidst the ominous trees, bathed in a sliver of moonlight leaking through tangled branches. Journalist owls hooted all around him. Reporter bats screeched by overhead. Opposition hyenas tittered, circling the King menacingly.

Undaunted, King Manmohan Vikram Singh strode towards the banyan tree where the ghost Betal 2014 hung upside down on a branch. He lifted the ghost off the branch, hoisted him on his powerful shoulders and began the walk towards the Italian tantrika. The smirking Betal told the king that he would narrate a story to pass the time, on the condition that the king does not speak. Should the King open his mouth, Betal will fly back to his resting place on the banyan tree.

"Staying mum? Ha! That's child's play for me," thought Singh. And so Betal began his story.

"Once there was a powerful empire, ruled by a great king. The King was loved by one and all, for he was fair and sensitive to the needs of the poor. He was harsh with criminals and he was just in dealing with disputes. He even brought computers into the empire from distant lands. His subjects were happy."

"The King's consort was a commoner from a distant exotic empire, who bore him a handsome prince. The prince was the apple of the King's eye and his wide-eyed innocence brought unbridled joy to his subjects. Everything was well in the kingdom."

"Until one day, when disaster struck. On a trip to the Southern province, the King was attacked and killed by tigers. The shattered Queen, despite her grief, put the needs of her subjects first, and began to plan the succession. She realized that she would not be accepted as the ruler on account of her identify. The prince, while acceptable, was too young to rule the kingdom. So, she appointed her loyal Minister as the King."

"The plan worked. To the subjects, the Minister was the King, but the Queen wielded the real power, and choreographed the Minister-turned-King's every move from behind the curtains. The courtiers realized that they must win the loyalty of the Queen in order to rise in influence. Soon the courtiers began to ignore the Minister-turned-King, and fell over themselves trying to please the Queen and her son."

"The kingdom suffered. Crime increased. Corruption gripped the kingdom. Sycophancy was as its peak. The royal treasury began to empty. Prices of important commodities increased manifold. Neighbouring empires threatened to annex the empire."

"Discontent set in among the subjects. On the very computers the original King brought from distant lands, the subjects expressed and spread their views against the empire. Instead of helping the subjects, the courtiers and ministers instead dealt with them in a high handed manner. The disgruntled subjects turned to their Minister-turned-King for answers."

The Betal turned to King Manmohan Vikram Singh. "Hey Rajan, now tell me. In this utterly chaotic situation, what was the reply of the Minister-turned-King?"

Utterly engrossed in the story, King Manmohan completely forgot his vow of silence, and said, "The Minister-turned-King would have said, "Hazaron jawabo se achchi hai Khamoshi meri, Na jaane kitne sawalo ki aabru rakhe."*

The Betal laughed manically. "O King, you are wise. That's exactly what he said! But you broke your promise! You spoke!"

Saying thus, Betal 2014 slipped out of the King's grasp and flew back to the Banyan Tree, with King Manmohan running after him in vain.

Will King Manmohan Vikram Singh get hold of Betal 2014? Or will Betal give him the slip yet again, with another story?

[*Literal translation: My silence is better than a thousand replies, as they conceal the honour of so many questions]

Source: Unreal Times

The tragedy of Modern India

 

[HeinzGud]

Its not about colonial past, I would suggest you at-least read the article posted at first post of this thread to understand what is been talked here ..

Open wiki or open other thread to discuss that topic, This is not specific Indo-China thread ..

Sorry my bad.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

After spending billions of dollars on Russian weapons this is the sad conclusion.

 

[vishwaprasad]

No reason to feel sad bros...though I agree with KB that during war those who are able to keep up with casualties wins but that is true in case of some very very big type of war say like Germany vs Russia during WWII...are we all seriously thinking here that in future Chain will go on that scale of war with India? are they ready for this kind of war which will certainly weaken their economy, military??

No its not going to happen....even geographically this kind of war is not possible either for India or China...at the most we will be facing war with China which will be like Kargil....We have phalcons, we have MKIs, C-17s, C-130s in future we will have Rafales and those appches....yes India will be able to score smooth shot quick victory in these kind of wars and even chinese knows this....dont think that after a defeat in these kind of small scale war China will start churning out 100+ fighters a month and embark on full scale invasion of India....its simply not that easy...we are nuclear power with means to deliver them (A-5)....we just need a powerful leadership and on time decisions making ability on purchasing required weapons....

And Chinas ability to produce 100 J-10s or 11s in a month is IMO is just overestimation.....they would have been like US by now if they had this ability ....

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Indian armed forces already have prepared for such a War and the most vulnerable part of ours is we depend on other for arms, If my words are not enough, Ask any defense professional @Ray Sir, @Decklander Sir or Any General he will tell the same & that is the very reason DRDO, ARDE, NAL,OFB, HAL etc existed..

If we dont need National defense Industry and imports were enough we would never have these agencies nor we would have spend-ed a dime for it, National defense Industry is not for show or National Pride but to fill the Vulnerable part of our Defense preparedness..

War is not a commodity, It comes at cost of man and material to archive its goals at whatever cost, About China, If they are not looking for a War, Then they have no business inside our borders but that is not the truth..

Our Condition is not very good, to say the least and these are not my words, Imports is not the solution and never will be ..


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Also if you have checked China Indigenous production scale and rate you would not come here and said just an ' overestimation ' ..

If you think some one has a nuke and tell you to stop, It does not happens that way, Unless you archive your goals, You cannot step back ..

Above that China have its own BMD layers over there cities even close to our borders, We dont have such quantity yet ..

.though I agree with KB that during war those who are able to keep up with casualties wins but that is true in case of some very very big type of war say like Germany vs Russia during WWII...are we all seriously thinking here that in future Chain will go on that scale of war with India? are they ready for this kind of war which will certainly weaken their economy, military??

And Chinas ability to produce 100 J-10s or 11s in a month is IMO is just overestimation.....they would have been like US by now if they had this ability ...

 

[ramakrishna]

we have enough manpower, we have enough resources ... we have enough talent to build our own weapons ... but still why we are depending on others ????