Ukraine plans to produce aircraft the Chinese school

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by Akim, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    [​IMG]
    Ukraine preliminary contract with China for the purchase for the needs of our Air Force light attack aircraft (combat training aircraft) Hongdu L-15, which were developed jointly with the Russian Yakovlev and equipped with engines of Ukrainian origin.Thus the main condition of the deal is the localization assembly of military vehicles in Ukraine, according to sources in the Defense Ministry.To produce the L-15 plan at the Odessa aircraft factory, which increased its capacity with the help of the Chinese side."Initially we are going to start production as early as 2016, but the process is a bit podvis, and early next year will be only the first meeting with the Chinese, called to settle all the details of the contract. Therefore, all spun later than we would like, "- said our interlocutor.Number of purchased stormtroopers and value of the contract is kept secret.Aircraft equipped with engines AI-222-25F issued by Zaporozhye plant "Motor Sich". Maneuverability L-15 fighter is at the third generation, in climb rate not inferior US F-16.Can accelerate to 1.6 M (1715 km / h), practical ceiling is 16.5 km, combat radius - 550 km.Combat load of the machine - 3 tons to 6 hardpoints. It can be guided missiles "Air-air" melee units with unguided rockets or bombs.It should be added that Motor Sich is also developing a stronger drive unit AI-222-28F, which is planned to be used in the variant assault L-15, referred to as Hunting Eagle.
    http://www.wing.com.ua/content/view/15481/38/
    http://dziennikzbrojny.pl/aktualnos...-planuje-produkowac-chinskie-samoloty-szkolne
     
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  3. J.A.

    J.A. Militants

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    Which Ukraine have today in Air Force air strikes ?? Type and how many ?!
     
  4. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Now Ukraine has:
    L-39 - trainer aircraft
    Su-25 - attack aircraft
    Su-24 - front bomber
    MiG-29 - frontline fighter
    Su-27 - fighter-interceptor
    The exact number can not say because I do not know him. More than one hundred but less than two hundred.
     
  5. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ukraine has:
    1 - 36 Su-27P (6 combat-ready),
    2 - 24 MiG-29 9-13 and 12 9-12 and 9-51 (UB) - 8 combat ready,
    3 - 36 Su-25 (6-8 combat ready),
    4 - 24 Su24M (4 combat ready) and 8 Su-24MR reconaicense + Su-24MP jammers (none combat ready),
    5 - about 48 L-39C (36 in service, non-combat).

    Ukraine cannot produce or even deeply repair aircraft engines anymore - turbine blades, wheels and combustion chambers production facilities has left in Lugansk :)
    L-15 license builds were planned in 2011-2013 but got abandoned due to technological sequences and cooperation chains breakage after maidan (90% of cooperation were with Russia).
    And of course, Ukraine have no mony for any aircraft building projects and will not have them for next 10-15 years to come at least.
     
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  6. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Ukraine has no money but the Wahhabis (Saudis) are willing to invest in a new Antonov factory. :)
     
  7. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Saudis will not invest into Ukraine because it will be easier for them to invest into Pakistan just like they did earlier for the nuclear technologies.
     
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  8. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Of course. We all shall die (сдохнем) soon.
    I understand that this is an analogue of the project S54.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  9. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    S-54 was a light fighter project of the harsh 90-s.
    How does it correlate to Ukraine?
     
  10. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The family of S54 created to fill a gap on the MiG-21bis (the MiG-29 can not be called a light fighter aircraft).
    I think that the one-man version of the L-15, this could be the missing link.
     
  11. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    1 - S-54 was a try to get low cost light fighter based on existing engine.
    2 - No because of lower performance comparable to real light fighter.

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  12. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Here is something interesting

    China's Baoji Titanium Industry refutes rumor of controller's plan to buy MotorSich
    Other Chinese sources indicate it means to hold part of Motorsich shares.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. amoy

    amoy Senior Member Senior Member

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    On L-15 Operators

    [​IMG] People's Republic of China
    • People's Liberation Army Air Force (First batch of L-15 is commissioned in a training center of PLAAF in EAST of China, quantity is uncertain based from public information)

    In November 2012, an order for twelve L-15s by an unknown customer was announced. They are due to be delivered in 2013.[8] This batch of L-15 is begun to be handed over to the customer on June 29, 2013.[9]

    [​IMG] Zambia
    [​IMG] Venezuela
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2015
  14. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Why to do such a stupid thing?
    MS intellectual property is major outdated.

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  15. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    S54 began to create even in the Soviet Union, then the money on defense is not spared. MiG-29 turned out as a replacement for the average MiG-23MLD. No lacked a light aircraft. Of course the project was shelved. In the 90 - hundreds of projects frozen because of funding cuts. Demand remained. JAS 39 a quarter lighter MiG-29, but is able to fight with him. What prevents to have more light fighter with modern aerodynamics?
     
  16. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    1 - S-54 was started because of light fighter (21-th Century MiG-21) complete absense.
    2 - As we all know, PFI contest should choose only 1 winner, but Lozino-Lozinskiy has pushed MiG-29 as a light fighter despite it has lost this conest to Su-27.
    But MiG-29 was not light fighter and has been done rather inoptimal way.
    3 - Light fighter must be 1/2 or even 1/3 to heavy one by performance, complexity and cost to be successful.
    And must be unified as close as possible to its heavy partner.
    Particulary - must have the same engine (1 instead of 2) and a bunch of common avionics.
    4 - MiG-29 was twice worth than Su-27 but has 3/4 Su-27 cost. This has lead to S-54 and the other projects start.

    Ukraine cannot have performant light fighter due to complete absense of indigenous engine for it (light engines for trainers are not suitable here). The same situation with radars, avionics and weapons.
     
  17. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    The total capacity of the two AI-222-25F on L-15 - 5 tons, the MiG-21bis - 4.2 tons. Afterburner (8.4 and 7.2 tons respectively). It besides that L-15 more per ton easier. Besides, I already wrote that in Zaporozhye were developed the more powerful engines AI-222-28F and AI- 222-30F. There are also engines with TVC.
    As for the radar and avionics, it is necessary to know what kind of cooperation will be with China. Weapons (missiles, guided bombs, guns) - Ukraine is able to produce itself.
     
  18. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Those engines are paper projects were and will not be implemented in metal. And of course they are outdated as are not incorporate modern materials and thus have poor specific ratios (specific thrust first of all).
    And no, Ukraine cannot produce modern missiles without Russian cooperation. And cannot develop them as well.

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  19. Akim

    Akim Defence Professionals Defence Professionals

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    Ukraine this year has put India's more than one hundred medium-range missiles. I agree - it was dependent on the Russian and Belarusian components, even ATGM missiles,. however, it has been eliminated. Dependence was not because Ukraine is not able to produce them.
    I realize you want to Ukraine's military industrial complex is completely dependent on Russia.
     
  20. gadeshi

    gadeshi Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ukraine has produced (not developed) Russian and Soviet developed missiles which design documentation and competences have left in Russia.
    Ukraine had just produced optical (IR/Laser and TV) seekers, all the RF seekers came from KTRV, as well as controll systems and rocket motor units. There were final assembly of R-27 and R-77-0 in Ukraine, but production assets will be depleted in summer 2016.
    Dependency eliminated? With what (not having indigenous parts), by whoom and in what cost?
    Uktainian version of import substitution is pseudoscience fiction for the next 10 years for sure.

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  21. J.A.

    J.A. Militants

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    120 pieces in Ukraine air strikes.
     

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