UK proposes building future warships with India

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by JAISWAL, Aug 11, 2011.

  1. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    If deal goes through, one of our new pvt sector shipyards could bag contract

    With defence ministry shipyards unable to meet the Indian Navy’s growing need for warships, New Delhi had no choice but to look to Russian shipyards. Now, with Britain looking to partner India to cut the UK’s warship building costs, one of India’s new private defence shipyards — which have high-tech facilities but no experience in building large, complex warships — could get the opportunity to build its first line of world-class frigates.

    Business Standard has learnt that a cash-strapped UK government has approached New Delhi to jointly design and build a next-generation frigate, designated the Global Combat Ship (GCS). While the UK had originally planned to build this alone (then designated the Type 26 frigate), shrinking defence budgets have forced it to seek international partners. And, India, along with other countries, including Brazil, has been invited into a consortium to design and build the GCS.
    The British shipyard that will participate in the GCS project belongs to BAE Systems. The ministry of defence (MoD) in New Delhi will nominate an Indian shipyard. With public sector shipyards unable to deliver even the existing orders on time, South Block has little choice but to turn to one of the three new private defence shipyards — L&T, Pipavav or ABG Shipyard.

    “There have been meetings at the government-to-government level. There are continued discussions with the Indian government. There has been clear interest from the Indian Navy. But nobody has made a commitment yet,” says Andrew Gallagher, president, BAE Systems India. The response of the other countries approached by the UK is not known.

    Senior MoD officials say, off the record, that no decision is imminent on the British offer. But they admit the offer is attractive, since it would provide a learning opportunity for one of India’s big new private sector shipyards to gain experience in building frigates.

    The three private shipyards already have orders for small vessels for the navy and the coast guard, none larger than a few hundred tonnes. A frigate, which typically weighs 5,000-6,500 tonnes and has complex electronic battle management systems, is far more difficult to design and build.

    BAE Systems has described to Business Standard how Whitehall envisages the designing and building of the GCS. The countries that eventually form the consortium would join heads to frame broadly common specifications for the warship. Presently, the GCS is planned as a flexi-role frigate. This means each vessel could be optimised for any one of the three traditional frigate roles: anti-submarine, air defence or general-purpose. To cater for these different roles and the different requirements of participating countries, the basic GCS design would have 80 per cent commonality in design and components, with 20 per cent remaining flexible.

    PLUS FOR INDIA
    While design responsibility would be shared between consortium members, each country would build its own frigates. This would protect jobs in the politically sensitive warship-building industry in the West. In the case of India, it would develop the capabilities of a fledgling shipyard.

    “The Indian Navy has significant warship requirements and so, India would be extremely influential in such a partnership…The GCS commonality would generate operational benefits between friendly navies. The additional benefit would be that a user, say the Indian Navy, could logistically support these frigates from ports in friendly foreign countries that operate the same ship,” says Gallagher, making the case for India’s participation.

    For the force structure of Britain’s Royal Navy, the GCS, (or Type 26 frigate) is crucial. It survived the UK’s budget cuts of 2008, by paring the Royal Navy’s order for the successful Type 45 destroyer. Last year, the Type 26 frigate survived the ruthless spending cuts imposed in Britain’s Strategic Defence and Security Review. But now, with Whitehall having concluded it cannot go it alone, the partnership of countries like India is essential.

    So far, India has entered joint development projects only with Russia and Israel and those in the fields of aeronautics and missiles. But the MoD realises the need to expand warship building to the private sector. Defence shipyards, besides already running to capacity, are plagued by time and cost overruns.

    Last week, responding to a question in Parliament, defence minister A K Antony admitted, “The cost escalation in major indigenous warship building projects of the Navy, which are running behind schedule, has already been about 225 per cent for Project-15A (destroyers), about 260 per cent for Project-17 (frigates) and about 157 per cent for Project-28 (anti-submarine corvettes).”

    UK proposes building future warships with India
     
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  3. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    UK is a sinking ship...best to keep away.
     
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  4. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, they are but they have a good weapon designing background and they might help Indian pvt. shipyards to gain the experties required to take such warship design and full fill IN's requirement.
     
  5. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    We can already do that...inept govt just needs to invest into R&D rather than buying from the shelf so that they can get kickbacks.
     
  6. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Looks like their honeymoon with Pakistan is over.

    We will consider it, but looking at the state of affairs in Britain, and the quality of their youth, we will have to spend much time in granting the Brits their wish.
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Nothing wrong with partnering with western defense firms as we have a lot to learn though we are pretty good with making warships ourselves. Since they are looking at private partners, it's good that in due course these private yards will be able to offer warships on their own to the IN. I hope it goes through, this deal.
     
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  8. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Yusuf bhai, do you see a potential of you playing a role in supplying iron and steel components in the event large and many ship-building projects come up in India?

    Other than that, I think it is a good idea if we can export finished products from our shores; products whose primary raw material is iron and steel instead of exporting the ore itself. We should plan to be an exporter of finished products and generate more jobs in India.
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    No mate. No role for me in that. I have a product from Sweden that secures bolts. Those can be used. In fact I had given a presentation to Directorate of Naval Design in Delhi but they are stuck up in old practices and inducting new technology is a long affair and I really don't have the time to keep following up with them.
     
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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    This is an excellent article from the magazine Purple Beret which is conceived by a Naval Officer and has many defence professionals contributing articles of interest.

    This is an excerpt of an article that I thought is very educative and would be in context with the thread.

    Read the whole article from the link.

    It will give a better insight of the naval ship building capability of India to some extent.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2011
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  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The Indian ship building industry has adequate expertise, but the moot point is whether the ships required can be churned out as per the requirement of the threat envisaged by the Navy.

    To be a Blue Water Navy of consequence, the number of ships and the requirement for maintenance and refit would possibly mean having more shipyards that construct naval ships.

    The UK has a historical lineage in the production of quality naval vessels and the British shipyards are lying idle. Some good and hard bargaining will ensure adding naval vessels to the Indian fleet commensurate to the timeframe desired to make the Indian Navy a reckonable Blue Water Navy.
     
  12. debasree

    debasree Regular Member

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    why dont they shift their ship building capacity to india ,we will whole heartedly embrass it.
     
  13. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Embrace or embarrass we don't have the capacity for out own requirement let alone service others.
     
  14. Neil

    Neil Senior Member Senior Member

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    but yusuf bhai thats because all major warship contracts goes to public shipbuilders...we dont use are private facilities which are much bigger than public for such jobs...
     
  15. lalitghag

    lalitghag New Member

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    Hey friend Good News for our Navy. Pl go though this news
    UK proposes building future warships with India

    As we know our public ship yard are already full with there capacity this could help us to achieve our targets. But lot on depend on our government whether they are giving free hand to private shipyard or not?
     
  16. JAISWAL

    JAISWAL Senior Member Senior Member

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    Bhai thats what had been posted on the first post of this thread.
    I hope you had read it.
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    The private ones are newer ones and their expertise in making large warships is unproven. This project of partnership will help these private players to absorb latest technology so that in the future they are ready to handle large Indian warships on their own and in quantity. These private shipyards are really important for the future of our navy as we look to add numbers and quality to become a blue water navy.
     
  18. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    good oppertunity for india. once you are making warship for a P-5 country you automatically get a very strong backing in the market so next time if our shipyards bid for the warship making for any other country then they have a strong experience in their profile and so good backing and higher possibility for getting the contract.
    domestic shipyard of every country make ships for their country but one making for others is perceived better than others.

    here this chance is more unique because once india validate its capability to make foreign ships many of the other western countries will follow and indian shipping will boom. moreover not at least in next 1-2 decades i see western countries going to china for making their def platforms and the reason we all know
     
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    You have got to be kidding me. Outsource defense contracts to China? That too a decade from now when we will be in the midst of another cold war?
     
  20. lalitghag

    lalitghag New Member

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    I had posted this yesterday in new post i dont know how it has merged with your post.
     
  21. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

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    Do you mean Hydraulic bolt tensioners. If yes they are used by the shipyard for tightening the bolts on the couplings.
     

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