The Truth about the WS-10

Discussion in 'China' started by Drsomnath999, Sep 26, 2011.

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Do u think china could develop Supercruise engines for J20?

  1. YES ABSOLUTELY MAN ,NO DOUBT ABOUT IT

    38.9%
  2. NO ,PISS OFF

    61.1%
  1. Drsomnath999

    Drsomnath999 lord of 32 teeth Elite Member

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    WRITTEN BY RYAN CRIERIE ON FRIDAY, JANUARY 7, 2011 AT 5:22 PM

    I’ve been reading up on the WS-10 lately with all the news in the media about the new Chinese J-14/J-20 Stealth fighter prototype.

    One of the most common refrains by the ‘learned’ who say that we don’t need to worry about the J-20 is that “China cannot make engines”.

    To support this, they usually trot out Russian sources who tell us that the WS-10 is a copy of the AL-31F, and that the Chinese can’t make a working copy of it; so thus, they are dependent on Russian Arms Exports for their superfighter(s).

    The problem is, it’s not true.

    The basic WS-10 technology dates to 1980 when China initated development of high performance engines to support next generation aircraft.

    To support this in 1982 they bought two CFM-56 turbofans from the US. There was quite some concern over this at the time because the CFM-56 core is a derivative of the F101 core that powers the B-1, and the F101 was also worked up into the F110 core which powers some F-16s.

    In 1986 with the technology in hand, Deng Xiaoping initaled the plan for turbofan development. By 1989 actual development and manufacture of the WS-10 core began and it achieved first power in December 1992.

    Of course, they had problems through the 1990s with the turbine and compressor blades so flight testing didn’t begin until 2001/02. And of course there were problems which bedeviled it due to poor quality control, like a WS-10 exploding after takeoff in a test mule Su-27 in 2004.

    The WS-10A finally passed it’s 40 day endurance test with no failures in November 2005.

    Some Specifications:

    WS-10:
    0.78:1 bypass ratio
    Compressor: 3 Fan and 9 Compressor Stages
    Turbine: 1 High Pressure and 2 Low Pressure Stages
    Diameter: 950mm inlet
    Weight: 1,494 kg

    AL-31F:
    0.571:1 Bypass Ratio
    Compressor: 4 Fan and 9 Compressor Stages
    Turbine: 2 single stage turbines
    Diameter: 910mm inlet, 1,240mm external
    Length: 4,950mm
    Weight: 1,530 kg

    As you can see, the WS-10 has a totally different internal layout, higher bypass ratio, and larger inlet than the AL-31F. So it is in no way a clone of the AL-31F.

    So what does the WS-10 come close to resembling? Why yes, none other than the F110 with it’s 0.85:1 bypass ratio and the SAME exact compressor and turbine arrangement!

    No wonder the
    has suffered a very long protracted development and suffers from slow throttle response — the Chinese had to not only reverse engineer the CFM-56 turbofan core, but then re-militarize it back into a F110 clone.

    That’s up there with the Japanese reverse engineering the Jumo 004B from a grainy photograph.

    Oh, since they now have a working CFM-56 derivative core in production, making large, high bypass ratio turbofans for the Y-20 strategic airlifter is a lot easier.

    F110
    [​IMG]

    WS-10
    [​IMG]

    AL-31F
    [​IMG]


    difference in visuals of AL 31F & ws_10
    [​IMG]


    Alternate Wars � The Truth about the WS-10
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
    Kunal Biswas, huaxia rox and venkat like this.
  2.  
  3. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    The truth about WS-10A at this very momement is PLAAF does not feel it is reliable and efficient enough to power its fighters to date. They recently signed a massive order with Saturn for more AL-31 engines which proves their lack of faith in it. They do feel comfortable enough to run a testing programme for them but it is a far cry from a fieldable engine.

    Problems I have heard are blade cracking, slow throttle acceleration, uneven production standards and high catastrophic risk.

    It is based on the AL-31F series of engines... China never had access to military grade GE cores which are a world apart from their French civilian counterparts.
     
    lambu likes this.
  4. agentperry

    agentperry Senior Member Senior Member

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    i need LOLguy to go around saying its bullshit lol... china is far ahead growing cabbage on mars lol.... shitting in blackhole lol.... ws10 lol...making ws101 lol.... im going lol....
     
  5. niceguy2011

    niceguy2011 Tihar Jail Banned

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    Have a good dream, if it can help.LOL
     
  6. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    A thread about Chinese failures isn't complete without your LOL.
     
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  7. no smoking

    no smoking Senior Member Senior Member

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    The same can be said about you, my friend.
     
  8. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    things could change...isn't it? and things is changing...

    -------------------------
    few years ago. we saw this: new built J11 waiting the engines...
    [​IMG]

    nowadays,3 PLAAF and 1 PLANAF regiments from different devisions are recieving these Jets fitted with WS10.

    here's the newly released pic from one of these four upgrading regiments.
    [​IMG]

    -------------------------
    J15 is test flying with WS10
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    ---------------------------

    the 5th J10B prototype -no.1035- is test flying with the WS10
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  9. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Um, yeah... that was last year and it is still the same scene. Check the engineless planes in the background...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
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  10. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

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    Oh man.....I just wish that the Chinese were more like the Indians. In India if the local industry produces a half-baked indigenous defense equipment tthat the Army or the IAF rejects.....the politicians and beaurocrats keep turning on the screws until the Army or the IAF gives up and buys a few to
    save face.

    In China they just tell the local industry NO.
     
    guoyinag likes this.
  11. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    someone doesnt' change a bit here...always deny...and never have a look at themselves...' talk only do noting' is not popular in the world ...

    the production is still ON...and AS I SAID ,4 regiments is updating their jets with J11B and BS...normally each J11 regiment has 24 jets...
    and I would like to tell you that these J11B,BS jets had engines already in the pic taken by 傻人防火 which you posted. have a look carefully.

    those camouflage cover mean nothing

    [​IMG]

    and these so called enginless J11B,BS are spotted flying at the stations of these regiments across the country ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  12. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    I just showed you a current pic of J-11Bs sitting at Shenyang STILL without engines and you showed one with an entire engineless regiment. There are only two serving regiments of J-11Bs and they all fly on AL-31Fs. The two they have made still don't have engines and are sitting at the factory field waiting for WS-10A clearance.

    Get with reality...
     
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  13. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    Apart from certain programs there are many success, offcourse you wont accept and we dont need you to accept either.
     
  14. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Oh,an indian know PLAAF so well, even better than me...I'm really surprised and impressed....would you please tell me more about the second J11B regiment with AL31Fs, unit number and location ,any pics?...except the No.1 regiment in Northeast....LOL...no pic no fact--this is your rule...I had the pics of these 4 regiments of J11B with WS 10,one of which could be found in my post @11:48AM...show your evidence please.

    have a careful look at the pic you post again...those jets had engines...Camo cover mean nothing...the nozzle of WS10 is shorter than AL31F.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  15. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Except the first... :lol: So funny... here are your AL-31Fs.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  16. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    my god, you are so cute...always deny but don't read and look..

    you miss the title of the video
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  17. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    My god, can't you read?

    You don't get to make exceptions when they are the same for the first two regiments... duhr
     
  18. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    Please. discuss like an educated man...shame on you

    would you please figure out the the unit number, location ,pics or anyting about the SECOND J11B regiment with AL31 engine besides the PLAAF No.1 regiment of No.1 devision ...

    the video is about the PLAAF No.1 regiment. which is well know as the first and only regiment equipped with the BLOCK 01 J11Bs with AL31F in China.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  19. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    It is well known as the first and the second regiment came out shortly after which was well BEFORE WS-10A was even thought to be cleared by you fanboys. The newer production do not have engines which you demonstrated yourself from a pic last year and one I demonstrated from this month. The only way for you to prove otherwise is to show a line of J-11Bs sporting shiny new WS-10As and there isn't one.
     
  20. shiphone

    shiphone Senior Member Senior Member

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    again , would you please figure out the unit number, location ,pics or anyting about the SECOND J11B regiment with AL31 engine besides the PLAAF No.1 regiment of No.1 devision

    your source please...

    so called'well known' mean nothing without source...
    -----------------------------

    you don't read ...

    pic in #7 post in this thread at 10:48AM:
    [​IMG]
    No 31003 (J11B with WS10 of course ).PLAAF No.3 jet of No.57 regiment ,No. 19.Div
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  21. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    I have been waiting for years for Chicoms to post a line of J-11B with shiny new WS-10As. I guess you don't have it so I will wait more years.
     

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