The Football thread

[mayfair]

I don't understand what you are trying to prove, From the link you gave

Manchester United total net spend 2004-2009: £27m loss

Liverpool total net spend 2004-09: £122m loss

Its really funny how you are trying to discount the fee we got from Ronaldo sale. He was our player mister.
So is it our mistake to spend big on lesser no of players rather than spending less on too many players ? You have to admit that the Spanish twat was crap at transfers.

No I am not..I told you all the reasons why stats can be misleading..the figures do not take into account your squad before 2004, when you had splashed out huge chunks on aforementioned names, so there was little spending required to embellish the team. You have also been blessed with a better youth system and scouting network which means that you need not look outside for quality players all the time. Our academy and reserves till last year were shite and now we have the best youth coaches in Rodolfo Borrell and Pep Seguera coaching our youngsters (for the uninitiated they were in charge of the Barca academy which produced Messi, Iniesta, Busquets, Bojan, dos santos, Pique among others)- at least five-six of whom are regulars in England youth squads and are expected to break into the first team- one example is Martin Kelly. This means we save ourselves expensive transfer fee on regulars and squad players when the current crop retires.

It does not mean that we'll start producing quality youngsters in no time but it's a good start. Guess who overhauled our youth system- Rafa Benitez. A good youth system is essential for developing a squad as Barca, Arsenal and yourself have amply demonstrated and hopefully we will too.

Rafa had a mixed record in transfer market- he bought in gems like Torres, Alonso, Reina, Agger, Mascherano, Skrtel, Kuyt, Crouch, Bellamy among others but also landed expensive flops like Morientes, Dossena, Keane, Pennant, Ryan Babel etc. Many of those flops came about since he was not allowed to get his first choice targets by Coco the clown. Do you even know that we had deals lined up for Dani Alves, Simao, Aguero, Pato, David Silva, Malouda, Vidic, Walcott, Ramsey among others during Rafa's time and van Persie, Petr Cech, Christiano Ronaldo, Fernando Torres among others (before Rafa) but lost out because Coco was and is an incompetent knobhead? But some purchases were bizzare- Pennant and Dossena are really sore issues with the Kop faithful. We do not mince words on his failures in the transfer market.

It helps to keep an open mind and on the subject of Fergie time, I draw your attention to the following

REVEALED: 'Fergie Time' does exist... Four memorable matches where United won in injury time

Where you benefited the most from extra time manipulations.

Like I said, under the conditions which Rafa had to work in he did a very good job..could he have done better? Yes. I do not claim that he is the best manager ever, or he's better than Fungus, Wenger or Mourinho..but for the Reds he was a great manager who stood up to bullies like Fungus, helped us get back into the European elite and got the Kop believing again. That's his legacy for the Liverpool football club and its fans.

 

[plugwater]

Since you asked about the spending figure before 2004. Here you go total spending from 1990-2010

Pool 174 vs Manutd 196 in 20 years is nothing big. I can give numerous links about Fat waiter being crap during his period. Like i said Scousers rate the waiter more than he deserves.
Come on man the list you gave about the player you were interested is very silly. We have rumors linking with almost every star players that doesn't mean we are interested.
Yes, Rafa bought some gems but he was the sole reason to sell some of them. Remember Alonso fiasco ? Barry for Alonso you got to be kidding me!!! That led Alonso to look for his future somewhere else. Good managers are used to bring the best out of their players but Fat waiter failed to do so and i don't consider Agger, Skrtel, Kuyt, Crouch, Bellamy as gems.

Regarding your link about injury time mystery, I cant comment on 1993 match vs Sheffield Wednesday since i did not watch it. But for the remaining matches i can answer.
Versus Villa, Macheda scored before 93rd minute so its a FA conspiracy rite ?
Versus Shitty, Bellamy celebrated 1 minute for his equalizer in injury time plus 30 seconds added for a substitution so Owen goal was legitimate as per rules. This was very well explained in BBC MOTD which is a Fergie bashing channel.
Versus Sunderland, Vidic scored in 91st minute again a conspiracy ?
That article is a total bullsh!t.

I have to agree everything you said about your academy since i do not have much knowledge about it. But i know something about right Kelly he looked good whenever i saw him. But he wont get many chances as you have sh!t Glen Johnson playing in your first team.

 

[mayfair]

Since you asked about the spending figure before 2004. Here you go total spending from 1990-2010

Pool 174 vs Manutd 196 in 20 years is nothing big. I can give numerous links about Fat waiter being crap during his period. Like i said Scousers rate the waiter more than he deserves.
Come on man the list you gave about the player you were interested is very silly. We have rumors linking with almost every star players that doesn't mean we are interested.
Yes, Rafa bought some gems but he was the sole reason to sell some of them. Remember Alonso fiasco ? Barry for Alonso you got to be kidding me!!! That led Alonso to look for his future somewhere else. Good managers are used to bring the best out of their players but Fat waiter failed to do so and i don't consider Agger, Skrtel, Kuyt, Crouch, Bellamy as gems.

Regarding your link about injury time mystery, I cant comment on 1993 match vs Sheffield Wednesday since i did not watch it. But for the remaining matches i can answer.
Versus Villa, Macheda scored before 93rd minute so its a FA conspiracy rite ?
Versus Shitty, Bellamy celebrated 1 minute for his equalizer in injury time plus 30 seconds added for a substitution so Owen goal was legitimate as per rules. This was very well explained in BBC MOTD which is a Fergie bashing channel.
Versus Sunderland, Vidic scored in 91st minute again a conspiracy ?
That article is a total bullsh!t.

I have to agree everything you said about your academy since i do not have much knowledge about it. But i know something about right Kelly he looked good whenever i saw him. But he wont get many chances as you have sh!t Glen Johnson playing in your first team.

I suppose unless you are a Liverpool supporter you'll never understand why many stand up for Rafa. Those players whom I spoke of were actually lined up for us..the deals were all but sealed but for Coco's bumbling and others swooped in. it's all well documented by many journalists including Paul Tomkins. The 1990s were a lost decade for LFC, we had shite manager in Graham Souness who set us back by many years. We blew a lot of money on lots of players who were inexpensive but largely shite..this scatter gun approach cost us a lot because they had to be replaced quickly enough and led to throwing more good money after bad. Our gross spend is high but the number of players bought during that period too was very high with very few over the top purchases. Torres happens to be our most expensive signing at £20 million while you have had several players over £20 million. Makes a hell lotta difference mate..

Alonso affair was a bad one for us..most fans have been pissed off by the whole thing and it cannot be denied that his departure set us back quite a bit. But it must be remembered that Rafa maintains that he wanted both Alonso and Barry in the same team and Keane only thereafter. As it turned out we were left with neither and Keane was a disaster.

As for you not considering Kuyt, Agger, Skrtel, Crouch and Bellamy as gems, it's your opinion. For the price we paid for them, they have served the club very well and the supporters appreciate it.

We have a lot to do before we catch up with the teams on the top..hopefully with a good manager we'll get there eventually.

 

[plugwater]

Look this is what i have been talking about, you guys are blaming every manager you had but fat waiter. Why ? because of that rant on SAF or for that lucky win in CL final !!!
Again you have to stop complaining about us buying players for higher prize, its not our fault you opted for many players for lower prize and yes it makes a lot of difference the sooner your manager realize it, the better.
Rafa preferred Barry more than Alonso or else he might not have shown his interest in public. Showing interest in Barry made Alonso unsettle and i don't blame him coz both played exactly same role. This was a blunder from Rafa yet scousers failed to give him some stick.
Stealing other clubs transfer targets is nothing new in football.
Anyway good luck for your future. Its always nice to have a title race with Liverpool than Chelsea and city.

 

[mayfair]

Look this is what i have been talking about, you guys are blaming every manager you had but fat waiter. Why ? because of that rant on SAF or for that lucky win in CL final !!!
Again you have to stop complaining about us buying players for higher prize, its not our fault you opted for many players for lower prize and yes it makes a lot of difference the sooner your manager realize it, the better.
Rafa preferred Barry more than Alonso or else he might not have shown his interest in public. Showing interest in Barry made Alonso unsettle and i don't blame him coz both played exactly same role. This was a blunder from Rafa yet scousers failed to give him some stick.
Stealing other clubs transfer targets is nothing new in football.
Anyway good luck for your future. Its always nice to have a title race with Liverpool than Chelsea and city.

Do you even bother to read before posting stuff that makes you sound like an ignoramus, which I believe you are not. I blamed Graham Souness NOT all managers since 1991. We had Roy Evans who set about repairing the rot which Souness brought in..the man destroyed the club and was disgraceful enough to talk to The Scum, which is unforgivable for any Liverpool fan. Evans set about repairing the damage and Gerard Houlier took it further...under him the real turn around started and from a mid table club we started challenging for places closer to the top. The 2001 season was his pinnacle when we won five trophies including the unforgettable UEFA and FA cup finals. However, his subsequent heart attack was followed by two very mediocre seasons and his replacement with Rafa.

Rafa wanted Barry for several reasons- Alonso wasn't performing to scratch for the past two seasons and needed a kick up the arse..remember no one was willing to pay £13 million for him that year..he had a binder next season, and went for £30 million to Real Madrid and also doubled his paycheck. Rafa was told he would have enough funds to sign BOTH Barry and Keane..he wanted Barry to play on the left side of the midfield alongside Alonso (reiterated in many interviews). Rick Parry went ahead and signed Keane but told Rafa that there was no money for Barry, which would be generate donly via sales. Hence the whole unfortunate Alonso saga. Rafa got plenty of stick from the fans for that, but so did Rick Parry and the owners. The same Barry who claimed it was a dream to play for Liverpool went on to join City because they offered him mega £s. The whole Barry saga is done and dusted and we Kopites know better than Mancs as to what transpired there.

The Mancs are all over the place about Rafa because he stood up to Fngus and made Liverpool a force again. The fact you are unware of most of our managers prior to Rafa just tells us about his impact. He got under your skin and Fungus did not like it- hence the attck on him by the lackeys Fat Sma and Fathead Bruce.

 

[plugwater]

Give it a rest mate. Since you yourself do not rate Sousness and Roy much i guess i can skip it then. Regarding Houllier, isn't he the one who wasted 110 million on 39 players during his period in Liverpool ? You may not blame Houllier but most of the Scousers still do. His last two years in Liverpool was a disaster. I can still remember scousers wanting him out of Anfield. I am not arging about the achievements of houllier what i am saying is houllier too got much sticks from fans even after winning that mickey mouse treble but Rafa is still a favorite among you for his lucky champions league win. Houllier even had a death threat from your fans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2374132/Police-probe-threat-to-Houllier.html

Half of the matches you lost during Rafas period is due to his complete horseshit tactics yet you all blame it on owners. You are compltely wrong about us hating him for his rant over fergie. we hated him because he never accepted his mistakes instead he used to blame all his shortcomings on FA, referees, burn out etc.we hated him even before his rant over fergie FYI. I can still remember a match when you were losing the match by 1-0 around 70 minutes he took Gerrard(best player on pitch) out for saving him for a CL match in midweek what message do you think it ll send to the players playing in the pitch. He had no fighting spirit(you can bring up that CL final for this but it had nothing to do with him, luck was on your side) and gave up so easily. Still you guys all consider him as a savior.

If Rafa has got some real talent in him as you are saying he should have been a hit in inter milan. He has everything in there and yet again failed to live up to his hype and this time he has got no one to blame. Even though its too early many inter fans wanting him to be sacked as soon as possible.

Alonso was playing average but even then he was better than Barry. Total fault was on that Spanish twat for his Alonso fiasco. Tell me the truth if Hodgson did something like that you guys never would have forgiven him and you all will raise banners and shout slogans to sack him. Every scousers know rafa is the reason why alonso left liverpool so stop defending him in alsono issue. During the time of Alonso transfer too Rafa dint get much stick from pool fans but you guys were happy coz u pocketed 30 million from real madrid and bought Aquilani very quickly. I can only laugh about Aquilani transfer i think you know why.

Fergie never spared anyone from his mind games, Wenger knows about this. So that don't mean he was afraid of that waiter. We did not hate him for his rant instead we used to laugh at him,his rant brought us the 18th title. In this matter too you praise him and proud of him, but you should have given him some teachings for his childish acts coz that made your team collapse in that season.

 

[mayfair]

Give it a rest mate. Since you yourself do not rate Sousness and Roy much i guess i can skip it then. Regarding Houllier, isn't he the one who wasted 110 million on 39 players during his period in Liverpool ? You may not blame Houllier but most of the Scousers still do. His last two years in Liverpool was a disaster. I can still remember scousers wanting him out of Anfield. I am not arging about the achievements of houllier what i am saying is houllier too got much sticks from fans even after winning that mickey mouse treble but Rafa is still a favorite among you for his lucky champions league win. Houllier even had a death threat from your fans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2374132/Police-probe-threat-to-Houllier.html

Half of the matches you lost during Rafas period is due to his complete horseshit tactics yet you all blame it on owners. You are compltely wrong about us hating him for his rant over fergie. we hated him because he never accepted his mistakes instead he used to blame all his shortcomings on FA, referees, burn out etc.we hated him even before his rant over fergie FYI. I can still remember a match when you were losing the match by 1-0 around 70 minutes he took Gerrard(best player on pitch) out for saving him for a CL match in midweek what message do you think it ll send to the players playing in the pitch. He had no fighting spirit(you can bring up that CL final for this but it had nothing to do with him, luck was on your side) and gave up so easily. Still you guys all consider him as a savior.

If Rafa has got some real talent in him as you are saying he should have been a hit in inter milan. He has everything in there and yet again failed to live up to his hype and this time he has got no one to blame. Even though its too early many inter fans wanting him to be sacked as soon as possible.

Alonso was playing average but even then he was better than Barry. Total fault was on that Spanish twat for his Alonso fiasco. Tell me the truth if Hodgson did something like that you guys never would have forgiven him and you all will raise banners and shout slogans to sack him. Every scousers know rafa is the reason why alonso left liverpool so stop defending him in alsono issue. During the time of Alonso transfer too Rafa dint get much stick from pool fans but you guys were happy coz u pocketed 30 million from real madrid and bought Aquilani very quickly. I can only laugh about Aquilani transfer i think you know why.

Fergie never spared anyone from his mind games, Wenger knows about this. So that don't mean he was afraid of that waiter. We did not hate him for his rant instead we used to laugh at him,his rant brought us the 18th title. In this matter too you praise him and proud of him, but you should have given him some teachings for his childish acts coz that made your team collapse in that season.

Once again you display your ignorance..Houllier had many shortcomings and his last two seasons were a disaster, which s why he needed to go. He had lots of flops during his time but e also brought in the likes of Sami Hyppia, Henchoz, Babbel, Didi Hamman, Anelka and other players. The club infrastructure was upgraded. There are nutters everywhere and cannot be used to generalise the fans much like some of your prawn sandwich brigade who shout Hillsborough and Heysel when we play at the Toilet or at home or some of ours who shout Munich.

Rafa a flop at Inter Milan? Please see this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/9140414.stm

He won two La Ligas and UEFA cup at Valencia..

Laugh at him? Don't see you guys laughing at Hodgson, why? Cause he sucks off Whiskey nose at any opportunity?

I can go on and on but let's give this a rest and just agree to disagree.

Good luck with the derby today

 

[mayfair]

Damn..another draw. Brought down with a bang. Dammit Roy why don't you just bugger off? We could have been fifth and just 3 points behind City and 5 behind Arsenal..damn Woy and his negative hoofball.

 

[plugwater]

Once again you display your ignorance..Houllier had many shortcomings and his last two seasons were a disaster, which s why he needed to go. He had lots of flops during his time but e also brought in the likes of Sami Hyppia, Henchoz, Babbel, Didi Hamman, Anelka and other players. The club infrastructure was upgraded. There are nutters everywhere and cannot be used to generalise the fans much like some of your prawn sandwich brigade who shout Hillsborough and Heysel when we play at the Toilet or at home or some of ours who shout Munich.

Rafa a flop at Inter Milan? Please see this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/9140414.stm

He won two La Ligas and UEFA cup at Valencia..

Laugh at him? Don't see you guys laughing at Hodgson, why? Cause he sucks off Whiskey nose at any opportunity?

I can go on and on but let's give this a rest and just agree to disagree.

Good luck with the derby today

You are missing my point again. I can reply to your posts about Houllier but it ll restart the conversation all over again.

IMO Houllier + Trophies = Rafa + fan favorite.

You should visit some Inter Milan forum to see how much they hate that twat.

Anyway disappointing derby. You got what you asked yesterday from us but failed to take advantage of it.

 

[mayfair]

Anyway disappointing derby. You got what you asked yesterday from us but failed to take advantage of it.

Yes, which is why we want Roy out now. There's a joke going around amongst Liverpool fans that for Roy after Sunday's debacle against Chelsea, the normal service has resumed!!

 

[plugwater]

Yes, which is why we want Roy out now. There's a joke going around amongst Liverpool fans that for Roy after Sunday's debacle against Chelsea, the normal service has resumed!!

Also helped Fergie by beating Chelsea on Sunday

 

[mayfair]

Also helped Fergie by beating Chelsea on Sunday

That hurts more than the draw!!..but you lot couldn't take advantage of it either! But it was indeed surprising for the Premier league to plan the fixtures for the midweek- either we have internationals coming up or the much sought after Christmas break will finally see light this season.

 

[plugwater]

That hurts more than the draw!!..but you lot couldn't take advantage of it either! But it was indeed surprising for the Premier league to plan the fixtures for the midweek- either we have internationals coming up or the much sought after Christmas break will finally see light this season.

It has been like that since last season whenever Chelsea drop some points we too failed to take advantage of it.

Yes, it is a surprise FA used to arrange this kinda high intensity matches for early kick off due to hooliganism. But i don't know what happened this time!!!

 

[The Messiah]

Scouse fans...deluded as always no matter which part of the world they live in.

 

[mayfair]

Scouse fans...deluded as always no matter which part of the world they live in.

Better deluded than ill informed...but you are partly right..Bitters are indeed deluded wherever they may be (if there are any beyond the Mersey that is)

 

[plugwater]

Here is Houllier transfer disaster

Jean Michel Ferri Istanbulspor £1,500,000
Frode Kippe Lillestrøm £700,000
Rigobert Song Salernitana £2,600,000
Djimi Traore Laval £550,000
Sami Hyypia Willem II £2,500,000
Vladimir Smicer Lens £3,750,000
Titi Camara Marseille £2,600,000
Stephane Henchoz Blackburn £3,500,000
Sander Westerveld Vitesse Arnheim £4,000,000
Erik Meijer Leverkusen Free
Dietmar Hamann Newcastle £8,000,000
Emile Heskey Leicester £11,000,000
Bernard Diomede Auxerre £3,000,000
Gary McAllister Coventry Free
Markus Babbel Bayern Munich Free
Pegguy Arphexad Leicester Free
Nick Barmby Everton £6,000,000
Christian Ziege Middlesbrough £5,500,000
Gregory Vignal Montpellier £500,000
Daniel Sjolund West Ham £1,000,000
Igor Biscan Dynamo Zagreb £5,500,000
Jari Litmanen Barcelona Free
John Arne Riise Monaco £4,000,000
Milan Baros Banik Ostrava £3,200,000
Jerzy Dudek Feyenoord £4,850,000
Chris Kirkland Coventry £6,000,000
Nicolas Anelka Paris St Germain On Loan
Abel Xavier Everton £750,000
Bruno Cheyrou Lille £3,700,000
El Hadji Diouf Lens £10,000,000
Alou Diarra Bayern Munich Free
Patrice Luzi Monaco Free
Salif Diao Sedan £4,700,000
Steve Finnan Fulham £3,500,000
Anthony Le Tallec Le Havre £1,500,000
Florent S Pongolle Le Havre £1,500,000
Harry Kewell Leeds £5,000,000
Carl Medjani St Etienne Free
Paul Jones Southampton On Loan

Total 39 players for £110,900,00

 

[plugwater]

What a day of football.. chelsea lost to birmingham and arsenal fucked up its 2 goal lead.. Manutd moved to 2nd position(only by goal difference)
Still unbeaten !!!

 

[A.V.]

the blues went down again yesterday good for the devils still the most amazing match yesterday was between the german giants , really a fan of the way germany plays open football , fast and the youngsters are great to watch

believe me one days the overhyped EPL will be i the same state like what english cricket is now

 

[plugwater]

AV, the most amazing match was Arsenal vs Tottenham. tottenham won in arsenal home after 17 years..

There is always a dumb arab who will be crazy enough to pour his oil money in to EPL clubs..So no real trouble for EPL

 

[mayfair]

Agree with Manc, a great game at Emirates, Spurs really have their tail up after putting one past gunners and Werder Bremen.

Chelsea starting to stutter a little, while Mancs up in second place. Well it seems we are definitely out of it even if we won this week. Well done to all other teams.