The best critical analysis of j20 fighter

[Yusuf]

hey man i had done this analysis on my own

Well good effort mate but I feel it was arrogant on your part to say it's the "best critical analysis" considering others are already picking up flaws in the analysis.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Not really. You cannot see only one aspect and then say it compromises stealth all over. The J-20 is a complex body and the waves behaviour pattern changes as and when it strikes the body of the J-20. They have achieved a degree of stealth and for some it may seem crude, for some it may only seem a straight forward way of achieving stealth. Like the flat underbelly on J-20 and F-117 as compared to the various patterns in the underbelly of the other stealth aircraft like F-22, F-35, PAKFA and YF-23.

A lot of these patterns affect stealth and aerodynamics and so do canards. But to say canards simply compromise stealth completely is not right.[/QUOTE]
totally disagree with u it would deflect radar waves & can increase RCS,then why the US & RUSSIANS Not given canards in their future fighters

They will eventually come. Even the PAKFA is set to get flat nozzles.

saturn flat nozzle patent(2008) installed - YouTube

well let's see

By far the only thing that is yet to be proven in China. If it has been then it is not public yet.

The time they get an operational squadron with their home made engine, then this is their biggest hurdle.

ya it's their biggest hurdle ,they are having trouble in ws10 in j11 plane,i had given the example above.& what about supercruise engine.?

The J-10B has significant composite structure. Not something that is very difficult.

ok i would take it

The radar is right behind the engine on this one.

Unnecessary signals emission will compromise stealth and is a problem for all aircraft including the F-22. It is just that the degree will vary from US to Chinese tech.

The Russian Bars noise levels is less than 3dB. Irbis is higher at 3.5dB. The noise levels are supposedly almost equal to American AESA arrays. Chinese technology is obviously not proven and yes their best radar is the one on Su-30MKK.

YA but american & russians would always have the edge on aesa & avionics on china ,whatever one can say.Ya china would install AESA that's for sure

Not necessary. Everything can depend on how many the Chinese plan on fielding in the end. The Americans will obviously not stop at 183. They will resume production once the F-22C is out. The Russian plan stands at 200-300. But if the Chinese manage 500+, then that would be a number both Russia and US will find difficult to compete with.

See it is very early now to discard j20 or take it as the best 5th gen fighter in the world.But time is there for j20 to modify it's airframe & honestly i am also optimistic about j20

 

[Drsomnath999]

Well good effort mate but I feel it was arrogant on your part to say it's the "best critical analysis" considering others are already picking up flaws in the analysis.

well actually i had no interest to do any analysis on any thing but it was for vengeance against a chinese member called MARTIAN ,who deliberately insulted me & T 50 project.I had posted in defence pk ,but they deleted it

 

[p2prada]

totally disagree with u it would deflect radar waves & can increase RCS,then why the US & RUSSIANS Not given canards in their future fighters

There is a Swedish model of a fifth gen fighter evolved from the Gripen. It also has canards.

If the Canards deflect radar waves away from the source then that makes it stealthy. But how many times will that be possible? It is a given fact that the J-20 will not be pitching the canards up and down on level flight.

Canards affect stealth but not to the point it is compromised. If they achieve something close to PAKFA then it is good enough to go undetected and reveal itself only during engagement. That's pretty much what stealth is.

 

[Yusuf]

well actually i had no interest to do any analysis on any thing but it was for vengeance against a chinese member called MARTIAN ,who deliberately insulted me & T 50 project.I had posted in defence pk ,but they deleted it

Oh you committed blasphemy. How dare you pick up on the Chinese on Pak forum? Did you get banned for it?

Still, the title is inappropriate

 

[Payeng]

They will eventually come. Even the PAKFA is set to get flat nozzles.

saturn flat nozzle patent(2008) installed - YouTube

The mentioned claim is not enough to prove that future PAK-FA will feature a stealthy nozzle, some where I have seen a picture Russia experimenting with flat nozzle but even though that is not a proof enough to consider, are their any press statements upon the claim? A flat nozzle will work against the advantage for which T-50 is designed for, i,e, maneuverability of a 3D thrust vectoring, radar deflection can be achieved with better design of the nozzle something like that of the F-35, a flat nozzle wont be effective enough until the Russians are able to apply considerable infrared reduction technology on the nozzle exhaust.

 

[pankaj nema]

Even In 2020 when j 20 is ready then Rafale ,Eurofighter ,F15 SE and Su 35/30 will Be BETTER than J 20

China has only demonstrated Jf 17 in an air show and NOT THE J10

Let the Chinese first improve the J 10 and Jf 17

Then we can talk about J20

China is only DESPERATE for a SUPERPOWER tag

j 20 has an external shape similar to a stealth Plane . What is inside Nobody knows

Radars ,EW suites ,Engines and Composite materials ARE the Current WEAKNESSES of China

The Internal weapons Bay is Something that is new even for Russia

If J10 is Bought by SOME Country other than Pakistan then we can say that Chinese Aviation has arrived

 

[p2prada]

The mentioned claim is not enough to prove that future PAK-FA will feature a stealthy nozzle, some where I have seen a picture Russia experimenting with flat nozzle but even though that is not a proof enough to consider, are their any press statements upon the claim? A flat nozzle will work against the advantage for which T-50 is designed for, i,e, maneuverability of a 3D thrust vectoring, radar deflection can be achieved with better design of the nozzle something like that of the F-35, a flat nozzle wont be effective enough until the Russians are able to apply considerable infrared reduction technology on the nozzle exhaust.

This is supposed to be a video directly released by Saturn.

Anyway, Saturn had filed and received a patent for 2D TVC with flat nozzles in 2008. The 3D TVC is not such an important criteria. If we have something like MKIs TVC which is quite possible, then that would be plenty.

Saturn Flat Nozzle Patent 2008 Viduba - Video Download

We don't know what the Russians are doing to reduce IR radiation. They said it will be minimum.

 

[cir]

Stop comparing J-20 to T-50, the latter has hardly anything "avionics" to speak of.

All Russian "onics" are junks, pure and simple.

Full-avionics J-20 No, 2003 will be out next year, and 2004 will be powered by SW-15 in 2014, beating the Russian T-junk hands and pants down.

By the way, the 2 T-50s are encountering major unexpected problems, They won't be seen flying for months.

China's J-20 will wnter service 2015-2016. Russian T-50? Not a fat chance before 2020!

 

[cir]

Self-congratulating is a defining and enduring character of most Indians,

even when it concerns the T-50, which has no Indian input whatever and is a 4.5th gen. Russian fighter at best.

No idea why Indians should get so excited with T-Junk.

 

[p2prada]

Stop comparing J-20 to T-50, the latter has hardly anything "avionics" to speak of.

All Russian "onics" are junks, pure and simple.

Full-avionics J-20 No, 2003 will be out next year, and 2004 will be powered by SW-15 in 2014, beating the Russian T-junk hands and pants down.

By the way, the 2 T-50s are encountering major unexpected problems, They won't be seen flying for months.

China's J-20 will wnter service 2015-2016. Russian T-50? Not a fat chance before 2020!

Hi, China does not even have the equivalent of the Bars while the Russians have moved a generation ahead of the Bars. All the Russian junk powers all the Chinese aircraft. China was even caught stealing Su-27 power packs for the J-11. The Russian 117 is also a generation ahead of the Russian junk that powers Chinese aircraft.

I understand you are very confident of your nation's capabilities. But how about demonstrating that with the actual "walk" than just the "talk." There seems to be a huge gap between what China calls state of the art and what Russia and US calls state of the art. The difference is such that even China calls 5th gen fighters 4th gen. Even your aircraft designation is wrong. Perhaps it is used to confuse all the robots.

I would really like it that you talk about any new engine for J-20 after the J-10 and JF-17 have Chinese engines in the near future. Or is the confidence levels of your engines and powerpacks so low that you still have to depend on Russian junk.

Even Chinese officials see first inductions in 2017 for J-20. Is there a Chinese J-20 and your own version of the J-20. That would solve a lot of misunderstandings.

As for the 2 T-50s - We want you to think they won't be flying for months. You see a new prototype will be flying in December, with all the latest stuff installed. It is obviously all secret. You wouldn't know even if I explained it.

 

[Dovah]

Stop comparing J-20 to T-50, the latter has hardly anything "avionics" to speak of.

And the former has no "engine" to speak of.

 

[Dovah]

Self-congratulating is a defining and enduring character of most Indians,

You figured us out man, you are smart...for a Chinese.

 

[johnee]

Self-congratulating is a defining and enduring character of most Indians,

And sweeping generalisations based on ignorance and contempt for others is the baneful trait of Chinese.

 

[p2prada]

Self-congratulating is a defining and enduring character of most Indians,

Hmm... The T-50 isn't even our aircraft. So, how does this come into the picture. I think some one is jealous that we are getting a better deal.

even when it concerns the T-50, which has no Indian input whatever

The T-50 is just the basic hull. The main bits are coming in the next 3 years. UK is completely gung ho about having 20% workshare in manufacturing the F-35 and even less in R&D. Here, HAL has 25% workshare in R&D and 100% workshare in manufacturing. So, who's laughing now?

and is a 4.5th gen. Russian fighter at best.

Since J-20 is 4th gen, that would make PAKFA infinitely superior.

No idea why Indians should get so excited with T-Junk.

The MKI is already better than any aircraft in your inventory including the Junk-10 and Junk-11(Wow I love playing with numbers and words). The PAKFA will be equivalent to 3 MKIs once ready.

So, yes we are excited about our T-junks.

 

[niceguy2011]

Dont you think its a bit early to do the analysis of J20 ?

And J-20 has no weapons bay
No, Google some high resolution pictures of J20 and see it yourself.

go watch video at the thread J20 News & Updates.http://defenceforumindia.com/china-pakistan-defence/17450-j20-news-updates.html

or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc_0vZ8hrtc&feature=player_embedded
U will see by your eye, if u have one.

Hmm... The T-50 isn't even our aircraft. So, how does this come into the picture. I think some one is jealous that we are getting a better deal.



The T-50 is just the basic hull. The main bits are coming in the next 3 years. UK is completely gung ho about having 20% workshare in manufacturing the F-35 and even less in R&D. Here, HAL has 25% workshare in R&D and 100% workshare in manufacturing. So, who's laughing now?



Since J-20 is 4th gen, that would make PAKFA infinitely superior.



The MKI is already better than any aircraft in your inventory including the Junk-10 and Junk-11(Wow I love playing with numbers and words). The PAKFA will be equivalent to 3 MKIs once ready.

So, yes we are excited about our T-junks.

if as u said
"The MKI is already better than any aircraft in your inventory including the Junk-10 and Junk-11(Wow I love playing with numbers and words). The PAKFA will be equivalent to 3 MKIs once ready."

Then why ur Pï¼­ said China is far head of Indian????


T 50 is just a joke for india's money.
F22 is fake and sick right now and will never go back to sky for a long time.
not like F22 and T50 , China tested J20 infront of public and u and film it if u want. Why? becoz we r showing some thing real! and much better!

 

[Damian]

F22 is fake and sick right now and will never go back to sky for a long time.

F-22A's problems are only with OBOGS system, many US planes have problem with this system, but if needed in wartime F-22A's will go to sky and nobody will gives objections to OBOGS problems.

As for J-20, this plane is not comparabale to F-22A, F-35 or T-50, why? Because it is huge plane!, RCS reduction is made mainly by proper size of plane, proper geometry and in smallest way by RCS reducing materials.

I see J-20 as F-117A analog, this means rather some sort of bomber or fighter bomber than multirole or air superiority fighter.

 

[niceguy2011]

F-22A's problems are only with OBOGS system, many US planes have problem with this system, but if needed in wartime F-22A's will go to sky and nobody will gives objections to OBOGS problems.

As for J-20, this plane is not comparabale to F-22A, F-35 or T-50, why? Because it is huge plane!, RCS reduction is made mainly by proper size of plane, proper geometry and in smallest way by RCS reducing materials.

I see J-20 as F-117A analog, this means rather some sort of bomber or fighter bomber than multirole or air superiority fighter.

do u think a simple OBOGS problem will take that long to warn up ?
no, it a much much bigger problem there, even dangers the normal training.

J20 is the huge ,but the size of a stealth fighter will make a no much diference at RCS but the weapen and fuel load.

 

[p2prada]

if as u said
"The MKI is already better than any aircraft in your inventory including the Junk-10 and Junk-11(Wow I love playing with numbers and words). The PAKFA will be equivalent to 3 MKIs once ready."

Then why ur Pï¼­ said China is far head of Indian????

You missed the point. The general public in India does not care about who has the better plane. Chinese socio economic development and economy is well ahead of India's and that is the truth and that's where we draw the line.

The fact is your country is under military sanctions from the west while we are not. So, in the time that you are building and developing your own industry, we are buying the same from outside. The only difference is while your products are indigenous ours are simply much better in both quality and technology.

We are able to match your spending through JVs as well. What takes $100Million to make in your country it takes the same fr us too. It's just that we share the money with Israel/Russia/France and make up for it by spending only $50Million while our partner spends $50Million. You see the difference. After the MRCA deal is signed the frequency of these deals will only increase.

T 50 is just a joke for india's money.

I don't really have a come back to this hopeless statement. The MKI is better than anything you have. The T-50 does the work of 3 MKIs according to official statements. If you wanna say J-20 can do the work of 5 MKIs then be my guest. But remember you don't even have your own engines on your own aircraft.

not like F22 and T50 , China tested J20 infront of public and u and film it if u want. Why? becoz we r showing some thing real! and much better!

China allowed a few pictures, so what? Both F-22 and T-50 were in airshows. Much better.

 

[Damian]

do u think a simple OBOGS problem will take that long to warn up ?
no, it a much much bigger problem there.

This is only OBOGS problem, I know that people like theories that there are bigger problems but only problem is with OBOGS, nothing else. Besides this F-22A's will probably be all upgraded to latest Block upgrade, this can be another reason why they will not be used so long.

And yes, proper redesigning and problems solving will take time.