Suitable Jaguar Replacement

[sgarg]

AMCA is going to be Replace the Jaguar otherwise some kind of UCAV

No way of Su 34 for India


PS I love to see the Su 34 in IAF

The best replacement of Jaguar has already arrived on the scene - it is called Nirbhay missile.

The rest of the job will be done by LCA Tejas.

AMCA should be an air dominance fighter. We need a Su-30 type aircraft through local design.

 

[SajeevJino]

See I had told you. You are ziddi .

Arre bhai both Harpoons and Jaguar are just not going to cut it for ocean duty where the targets move around by the time you fly for more than an hour to deliver two piddly missiles and get hunted by the other guys aircrafts. With the load out you are suggesting there will be a speed penalty which will make the Jaguar a prize target while it flies out of Jamnagar.

See there is no free lunch. Looks good on paper - this many missiles, fuel too. But lousy performance. You want to plan a mission, dhinchak performance with good loadout and good chances of not getting killed you go bigger. Jaguar too small.

Sir,

Please read something about Stand off Launch,

Drop Tanks- why they used

Why IM Jaguar upgraded with ELTA fire control radar.


since we are way too off topic in T 50 thread, if you agree we can continue from This thread

 

[Ray]

The best replacement of Jaguar has already arrived on the scene - it is called Nirbhay missile.

The rest of the job will be done by LCA Tejas.

AMCA should be an air dominance fighter. We need a Su-30 type aircraft through local design.

Air supremacy is defined by NATO and the United States Department of Defense as the "degree of air superiority wherein the opposing air force is incapable of effective interference."

There are three levels of control of the air:
Air supremacy is the highest level, where a side holds complete control of the skies.

Air superiority is the second level, where a side is in a more favorable position than the opponent. It is defined in the NATO glossary as the "degree of dominance in [an] air battle ... that permits the conduct of operations by [one side] and its related land, sea and air forces at a given time and place without prohibitive interference by opposing air forces."

Air parity is the lowest level of control, where a side only holds control of skies above friendly troop positions.

What is Air Dominance? I am aware that this word is bandied around by the US, but nowhere is it explained in context with the current usage that defines airspace control in battle.

Here is an Press Interview with Aarti Prabhakakar. Director DARPA

Q: Hi, ma'am. Dave Majumdar from Flight International.
The air dominance initiative. You testified last week -- you testified on this a couple days ago. But what exactly are you guys doing with that program?
I mean, is this similar to like how JASP developed into the F-35? Is that kind of the aim over here?
And then, also Frank Kendall, I guess in October last year he mentioned a new X-Plane program for a new attack helicopter. Has that gone anywhere?
DR. PRABHAKAR: I'm not sure I know the answer to the second question. But let me try to tell you what we're doing with air dominance.
Our air dominance initiative is currently a study stage effort. It grew out of some conversations that Frank Kendall and I had, shortly after I arrived here. I mentioned my view that there really isn't going to be a silver bullet technology that, you know, for example extends air superiority into the next three or four decades.
Frank Kendall I think also had a strong view that, first, that it's very important for us to create this generational shift in capability, recognizing that the future -- you know, the threats we're gonna face in the future are likely to be much more sophisticated than what we've seen in the last decade or so, and then, coupled with that, a concern about, given a period of defense spending downturn, how were we going to make sure that we continued to have the innovation capacity in this country to be ready for whatever needed to come next?
So out of those conversations came the notion of taking a look at air dominance and asking the question about how we could create this generational shift and how we could extend our air superiority capability.
We've chosen, very deliberately, we've chosen to take a systems approach and to ask that question -- you know, this not a question about what does the next aircraft look like? This is a question about what are -- what are all the capabilities that it will take, layered together, in order to -- to really comprehensively extend air superiority.
We're doing this project, this study project, in conjunction with the Air Force and the Navy. And it's been a very high-energy effort over the last few months. We've got a terrific team of eight DARPA program managers across a wide variety of areas, matched with Air Force and Navy experts working their next-generation look at a number of technology areas.
And just to give you a sample, those areas span networking and communications, control of the electromagnetic spectrum, and sensing across the electromagnetic spectrum. We're talking about how manned and unmanned systems might work together, what role space assets play, et cetera, on that.
So, very early, but we're seeing -- we're brewing some interesting ideas.
Q: When do you think you'll see some results?
DR. PRABHAKAR: Well, at this point, we're just a few months into a study. What I hope will come out of this will be some initiatives for the next budget cycle.
http://www.defense.gov/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=5227

The problem is that the Americans are very good at producing 'gobbledygooks', tweak the name, add a few meaningless add ons, make the whole thing impressive, confuse themselves and more so, others.

Take 'hybrid war' which has become the rage of the town and flavour of the century till the Americans coin another word to mean the same thing, but appear more impressive.

 

[Khagesh]

Sir,

Please read something about Stand off Launch,

Drop Tanks- why they used

Why IM Jaguar upgraded with ELTA fire control radar.


since we are way too off topic in T 50 thread, if you agree we can continue from This thread

Pls don't sir me. Ray is an ex soldier and soldies say Sir/Janab, so a Sir is ok for him. But I am a civvie so no sir please. You can add a ji after my nick if you feel very respectful. But Khagesh is what I prefer.

Regards Stand off launches, please note that the intent of Stand Off is not to increase Ranges and poor range is the prime criticism of these smaller aircrafts. You can increase range by asking the pilot to fly straight as the crow and then firing the missile on an equally straight trajectory. That way you get highest range off course, but the target may not even be there. Ergo Sight seeing . Or even if the enemy ship is foolish enough to be there, you can rest assured these sub sonic missiles fired two at a time will be targeted in turn by the CIWS while the enemy aircrafts would be hunting for the slow moving Jaguars for a much longer time, presuming a Jamnagar base.

At a more practical level also kindly note that JaguarIM and modified Su30MKI will be IAF assets. Jaguar IM goes to say Andaman under joint command only. There is a reason why IN never looked at these options except as some stop gap. In fact even in stop gaps the IN has been more pragmatic and they have mounted these sub sonic missiles on IL38/Tu142/P81 or on Carrier based jets. Navy needs loiter both for its aircrafts and its vessels.

Regards Drop Tanks. Again kindly note that the longer range you are talking about are drop tank ones. Those longer ranges by themselves are inadequate. Had they been adequate the IN itself would have bought Jaguar IM. They instead bought carriers and carrier based jets. IN has not even shown an interest in Sukhois. Drop Tanks increase range but only at the cost of speed, RCS, warload and general fun. The fuel itself is a significant weight.

Regards reading. I don't read. I just shoot from the hip and mind you the hips don't lie .

Regards fire control radar on Jaguar IM. I think it is an Agave radar. Elta was reported on Sea Harriers. NAVWASS (NAVigation and Weapon-Aiming Sub-System) was said to be unsatisfactory for every air force that used it. Agave (also on Super Etendard) was a successful MMR which implies navigation also besides strike missile targeting. Coincidentally for long duration low level flights Jaguars pilots had reported comparatively more stress during the time Jaguars did not even sport an auto pilot. Low level is good for Jaguar. Gives smooth flight but long duration 3/4 hours is said to be comparatively more stressful. Also you can well guess that low level with Jaguar was a Majboori too because its ceiling and high level flight left much to be desired. So under a handicap you simply must have a good MMR.

In any case that radar on small aircraft is an old solution, not much relevant any more.

Solution to Jaguar is Nirbhay/Brahmos on Su-30MKI. But this too will appear too small too less, within 15 years of its deployment. IN is right. Put bigger faster missiles capable of complex trajectories on some really long range aircrafts even if they are Recce prop planes. Smaller aircrafts, unless on carriers, can be left for the IAF to play with.

 

[Armand2REP]

The replacement for Jaguar and Mig-27 is Rafale and when M2000 retires, more Rafale. It will be in service a very long time.

 

[salute]

Here is an Press Interview with Aarti Prabhakakar. Director DARPA

director of darpa is an indian and that too an indian woman,nice.

 

[SajeevJino]

Stealth through Terrain Hugging

from former IAF Jaguar pilot, Vijainder K Thakur

While multi-role fighters attempting to provide CAS from standoff ranges would be picked up easily by the network of enemy ground and airborne radars covering the TBA, an A-10 flying through valleys, occasionally popping over ridgelines, would often be able to arrive over the TBA undetected. Even if detected, it wouldn't be easy to target from high flying enemy AD fighters.

The hype around stealth focuses exclusively on the ability of combat aircraft to deflect radar waves with aerodynamic shaping to avoid radar detection. But there is an equally effective and less expensive way of evading radar detection, a way that has existed since the advent of radar, a way that the IAF has embraced in the past and continues to do so today. It's called terrain hugging. You can evade ground based radar and enemy defenses (AD guns and missiles) by flying close to the terrain. For example, flying at 200 ft. above terrain at night, routing around enemy military deployments and populated areas, an IAF Jaguar could penetrate Pakistani airspace as stealthily as a USAF F-22 Raptor. Admittedly, the effectiveness of terrain hugging gets diluted when the enemy deploys AEW&CS aircraft. However, the dilution, which is significant in plains, is marginal in mountains because of ground clutter and shielding.

https://www.myind.net/iaf-fiddling-over-closed-air-support-lessons-kargil

 

[SajeevJino]

A first for IAF: Fired from fighter jet, Harpoon anti-ship missile hits bullseye

The Indian Air Force launched an anti-ship Harpoon missile from a fighter plane for the first time at a pre-designated target in the Arabian Sea last week. The missile, built by US defence giant Boeing, was launched on May 22 from a Jaguar maritime strike fighter that flew 200 nautical miles off the west coast to carry out the mission, a source said.

The fighter belonged to the IAF’s maritime strike squadron based at the Lohegaon airbase outside Pune. The Jaguar was refuelled midair during the mission, the source added.

An official confirmed it was the “first live firing” of the Harpoon from a warplane in India after integration by state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. “It was successful,” he added.

With a range of 124 km, the Harpoon is capable of land-strike missions too.

The navy tested the Harpoon last year when a Boeing P-8I long range maritime reconnaissance aircraft launched the subsonic missile to take out a ‘target’ in the Bay of Bengal.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india...p-missile-hits-bullseye/article1-1352477.aspx

 

[SajeevJino]

Missile integration on Jaguar successful

In another related development in HAL, one of its divisions MCSRDC has taken up the integration of an Air-to-Sea anti-ship-missile for the Indian Air Force's (IAF) Jaguar maritime aircraft. HAL insiders said that electrical design, structural design, integration testing, certification and flight evaluation are part of the integration process.

HAL's Bengaluru-based Overhaul Division is said to have undertaken the modification of the two Jaguar maritime aircraft for this purpose and integration activities are carried out by MCSRDC. "The aero-mechanical clearance of store on the aircraft was supported by ARDC.

First phase trials were held in April to establish data link with the support aircraft and the ground telemetry.

The next phase of trials basically checked the missile with airborne telemetry and subsequent missile firing," an official said. After the completion of the trials, the team executed the final missile firing in an ‘Air-to-Sea' mode.

"A decommissioned ship positioned offshore of Goa was the target and the missile hit it with pint-point precision," the official added.

http://www.oneindia.com/india/hal-h...dule-structure-for-chandrayaan-2-1784888.html

 

[Blackwater]

Saab Grippen with TOT which swedish are willing to give

 

[Immanuel]

I think for the time being, they need to be quickly brought up to DARIN-3 standards and the power plants need to be replaced with the Honeywell, this will drastically improve its reliability, availability and aerial performance. AFAIK there are still 120 Jags in the inventory. Armed with weapons like the Asraam, Harpoon, CBU-105SFW, Griffin MK-3, Paveways, Sudharshan LGB kits and potential new glide bombs the Jag is so far the best ground pounder in the inventory.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Jags will be operational well beyond 2030 !!!

 

[Zebra]

My two cents....

Better try to get few squadrons of used F-16s from US, as they still have lots of surplus F-16s.

Price won't be much.

And let LM bring it to zero hour and upgrade it up to the F-16V configurations.

It will be the most cost effective way to improve falling squadrons of IAF in most shorter time.

It is not impossible, as US - India co-operation is getting better and better day by day.

 

[The enlightened]

My two cents....

Better try to get few squadrons of used F-16s from US, as they still have lots of surplus F-16s.

Price won't be much.

And let LM bring it to zero hour and upgrade it up to the F-16V configurations.

It will be the most cost effective way to improve falling squadrons of IAF in most shorter time.

It is not impossible, as US - India co-operation is getting better and better day by day.

30 characters, behen da taka

 

[jackprince]

My two cents....

Better try to get few squadrons of used F-16s from US, as they still have lots of surplus F-16s.

Price won't be much.

And let LM bring it to zero hour and upgrade it up to the F-16V configurations.

It will be the most cost effective way to improve falling squadrons of IAF in most shorter time.

It is not impossible, as US - India co-operation is getting better and better day by day.

Not considering all the technological aspects of the futility of the suggestion, until the next president election is over and we know what kind of posture the new pres has for indo-us relationship, such a step would be sucidial.

 

[Zebra]

30 characters, behen da taka

Why, you are not happy with it?

BTW, I don't get scared like that, (for your kind information).

 

[Zebra]

Not considering all the technological aspects of the futility of the suggestion, until the next president election is over and we know what kind of posture the new pres has for indo-us relationship, such a step would be sucidial.

Sir, enlighten me, who ever come as next president, how it will effect the defence, geopolitical, strategic scenario.

 

[jackprince]

Sir, enlighten me, who ever come as next president, how it will effect the defence, geopolitical, strategic scenario.

Simple. If Hillary comes as president, with her anti-india attitude, she's not gonna improve relationship with India. India is not going to be servile like other nations like UK or EU or Pakistan, and it is well known Hillary prefers all to kowtow before her. USA is a very slippery friend as it is, with someone like Hillary Clinton it will be more unpredictable. Further, USA and indian relationship is always unpredictable. The closeness during Bush regime, vanished in Obama's 1st term (thanx to Hillary as State sec.)and now again Obama tried to cozy up and then made slander. Till USA gets a pres whose actions matches the words spoken, I doubt India would rely on USA any more than it has to.

 

[Zebra]

Simple. If Hillary comes as president, with her anti-india attitude, she's not gonna improve relationship with India. India is not going to be servile like other nations like UK or EU or Pakistan, and it is well known Hillary prefers all to kowtow before her. USA is a very slippery friend as it is, with someone like Hillary Clinton it will be more unpredictable. Further, USA and indian relationship is always unpredictable. The closeness during Bush regime, vanished in Obama's 1st term (thanx to Hillary as State sec.)and now again Obama tried to cozy up and then made slander. Till USA gets a pres whose actions matches the words spoken, I doubt India would rely on USA any more than it has to.

Not true.

Anyway but tell me, as per your opinion, who is / was the worst US president for India.

 

[Zebra]

^^

Let me put it in my layman's words.....

Nearly all US President offered their support to India when they came in power, if I am not wrong.

It was India who rejected to take US support . (Many thanks to PM Modi, as he preferred to be with US. )

And once India reject it, then anti India countries took / will take advantage of this situation.

India is a big country and US is the super power of this world.

If India prefer not to be with US, then US will take other options.

In such situation, any US President can't help India, if even he/she is a pro India person.

That is why it is important to be with US.