Speedy Trains Transform China

Discussion in 'China' started by t_co, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    699
    Location:
    China
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/24/b...ina.html?_r=0&pagewanted=all&pagewanted=print

    Average city-to-city travel times (as a product of metro distance) in China are now approaching Western European and US averages.

    The other thing to note is that the total level of investment into high-speed rail is over half a trillion USD (once you include non-debt financing and debt that has been paid off). Could the Indian government or economy ever execute any investment project on that scale?
     
  2.  
  3. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    I think trains in India would be less sterile and more interesting.

    Proverbs 16:18
     
  4. t_co

    t_co Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2012
    Messages:
    2,537
    Likes Received:
    699
    Location:
    China
    Interesting in what way?
     
  5. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,491
    Likes Received:
    592
    Last year we were talking about vacant coaches.

    Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
     
  6. W.G.Ewald

    W.G.Ewald Defence Professionals/ DFI member of 2 Defence Professionals

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    14,140
    Likes Received:
    8,528
    Location:
    North Carolina, USA
    Passengers and vistas. But I wouldn't know until I travel.
     
  7. mattster

    mattster Respected Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    518
    Location:
    California
    No other country in the world has as many migrant workers who move from the countryside to the cities and suburbs as China.

    The 2nd point is that these migrant workers who are Chinese citizens are like 3rd class pariahs in their own country.
    They cannot live in the city. Their children cannot attend local schools. They have no rights like other city residents.
    Basically they are like dogs used for their cheap labor to support China's export machine.

    So it's natural that these guy have to travel long distances to go back home to the countryside when they need to go home.

    This is why China needs high-speed rail more than any other country. They are not enough planes and airports to support the slave labor that keeps the factories humming.
     
  8. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    3,491
    Likes Received:
    592
    Most migrant workers go back home once each year to celebrate Chinese spring festival.

    How do explain the rest of the year?

    Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
     
    J20! likes this.
  9. Tolaha

    Tolaha Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2,158
    Likes Received:
    1,404
    Location:
    Bengaluru
    Could it be the case of CCP's flagship project being encouraged for usage by reducing/not increasing the number of planes and regular trains? "If" that is the case, then it would be another daylight robbery.
     
  10. Dinesh_Kumar

    Dinesh_Kumar Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    225
    Location:
    India
    Trains can transform India too, and need not be high speed...............just punctual. Fuel, salaries and overhead costs remains the same whether the train is late or not. Railways and Ministry only look at this, and are not bothered about other aspects. Making accurate rail timetables (note the word "accurate") and reducing uncertainty is being done by many countries now, most of whom dont have the world's largest pool of engineers, cannot build supercomputers and dont have robust space launch capability, so why cant we? Passenger load factors, reliability and use of rail to move cargo across India (lowers prices of goods for consumers, nation benefits) have not been perused vigorously even though it wont cost anything extra to do so..
     
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  11. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    I think the priority is that India requires high speed good corridor so that material can be transported faster to destinations and the rakes released quickly for rotation.

    However, being a democracy, we will have the usual problems of land acquisition!
     
    Khagesh and Dinesh_Kumar like this.
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2009
    Messages:
    43,118
    Likes Received:
    23,545
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Investment can always be scuppered up.

    Like it is being done for the MNERGA and Food Security, both unique in terms of the world.

    However, the point is that the priorities dictate investment and not the urge to do something spectacular for cosmetic kudos!
     
    W.G.Ewald likes this.
  13. Barak2

    Barak2 Regular Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2015
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    15
    Because i am a traveler and keeps my interest in these things. These trains are surely going to leave an impact because of the way things are going ahead and of course it is a need of the era as well. To me important is to experience the best and also that becomes certainly good at the moment for me it needed to know how goodly countries are going ahead in this side which is an appreciable thought.
     
  14. Khagesh

    Khagesh Regular Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2015
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    567
    Location:
    India
    Also:
    1) More lines along the existing ones
    2) better goods handling and yards
    3) dedicated trains for industry should be promoted

    As I see it the only reason Bullet Trains are being pursued is because in some sectors the users can pay for it and it serves to bring about a change in low spirits.

    Unfortunately the first year the fell short of new tracks target by around 25%. They have not reduced the target for the next year. But I am afraid this is not enough.

    There are some odd factories near Gwalior. They do not use one full station and one smaller station to ferry goods even though Inland Container Depot is nearby. ICD hardly gets used. Very very laid back. Trucking instead gets used far too much. This should be forced to change.
     
  15. Compersion

    Compersion Senior Member Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,848
    Likes Received:
    454
    Location:
    India
    I agree that the high speed rail is good and necessary and frankly use of airtravel can be reduced and removed for distances where it makes economic sense and one needs choice and eventually cost of high speed travel will come down.

    but your comment made me think who are the average user of high speed rails in PRC - is there a separate network of slow speed rail in PRC. made me wonder after reading a interview.

    Q. in PRC is there parallel train networks. Does high speed network use the same tracks like normal slow rail. and what about Maglev track in Shanghai.

    that means there is huge networks in PRC. one can say three expensive (slow, high speed, maglev) networks in PRC. that means there is choice. is the slower rail network in PRC is it in a state of actualisation. is it PRC only build high speed + railway now. what are the costs here. it must be massive.

    is the slower rail network being improved if not being made redundant because if given a choice high speed and ease of travel is better.

    i mean why PRC needs slow train.

    what is the comments of people using slow speed rail (still) in PRC. when people sit in slow train is it because there is no high speed train for their destination. is it because no choice. because if given choice between high speed and normal speed to go somewhere everyone would take former. is it about economics. how does it feel for people to still sit in slow train in PRC. why they need to do that.

    mention of large migration during holidays do these people use high speed over slow rail train. is high speed during such period fully sold out. that means such people can travel quickly and for longer period stay. what is the average time used by such people. do PRC government reduce fairs of high speed network during such periods to make people happy. will the people demand such choice. what about when no holiday and other times. is it about economics.

    someone mentioned that Beijing had metro for many years yet people used to use cycle for same distance. now there is metro and now the person said it is making people not use cars. is it about economics. in PRC reasoning is sometime customary.

    will the high speed rail access be for mass population use. will everyone use only high speed rail. not sure if it will be working that way. are PRC too early and too fast in building such large high speed network especially between major areas and its population are not a democracy. is high speed suited in PRC for mass use.

    people will say PRC plan long term and think about next generation. but how long it took for PRC to build the high speed railway (not really that long). is it contingency for ruling.

    High speed rail can also be suited in PRC dynamics to "lift spirits" like PRC connect high speed rail to North Korea. It makes economic sense. It would be better to go to South Korea but it would hurt to see no stops in North Korea.

    the better analysis is:

    1. Military use. This is the most reasonable analysis i can think for justifying how PRC implemented high speed rail. end use of high speed rail is for military and population control which i believe is more suited and reasonable analysis. I have to give credit and PRC plan and execute it well. No doubt.

    the development of PRC high speed rail is impressive. the infrastructure is impressive and done well. it is not like the japanese and quality is question and also IPR issue but still it is achievement.

    Likewise I will defend and make sure Air India is always there and never touched. It is needed for the country and is a achievement and even can be used for military use. Can i replace the words High Speed Rail with Air India ... I suppose yes

    One thing is that PRC has shown that it can be done without democracy. It is kind of PRC to share its learning with us.

    http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/na...hi-chandigarh-semi-high-speed-rail/65938.html

    ** (added later) Semi-High Speed Trains

    "France will partner India in a study for upgrading the speed on Delhi-Chandigarh rail line to 200 km per hour and help in re-development of Ambala and Ludhiana railway stations."


    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...orch-Vij-tracks-soon/articleshow/47142875.cms

    "While the New Delhi-Agra section is almost ready to run the semi-high speed trains"

    Speed for the mass for the people and not expensive !! That would transform many things and be good for democracy.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2015

Share This Page