Spain in more trouble.

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by Yusuf, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Watching Al Jazeera, Spain's unemployment rate has gone up to 24%. The report also said that Spain has $270 billion in bad realty debts and it's banking sector needs a bailout.

    But if you watch La Liga, you'd probably feel all is well in Spain and the same goes with other European countries.
     
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  3. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I was also watching Al Jazeera.

    Scary!

    It seems Spain is a bigger issue than others!
     
  4. trackwhack

    trackwhack Tihar Jail Banned

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  5. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    $270 billion is not the actual figure. It's lesser. Right now, investors, wealth and talent are flocking to Germany. It is imperative for German policy makers to stop fiddling around and do what is needed, push liquidity and abandon draconian austerity measures. They ain't helping.

    I'm more worried about Italy, when it comes to fall. With each passing day, the twats at Gemany are pissing me off.
     
  6. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    The Germans don't want to just give their money for free to Greeks, Spaniards and Italians. I can understand their resistance. How will Merkel explaing to the German electorate why they are giving away their taxpayer money to these countries just because they didn't have their finances in order?
     
  7. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    Why should Germany pay for other's fiscal mistakes. Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece should have started taking corrective measures on their own when there was a hint of things going haywire. Euro was all about all member countries conforming I strict economic policies in various sectors. The future of Euro looks bleak.
     
  8. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    If they don't pay, the Euro will become a non existent currency! :rofl:
     
  9. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    They may well let that happen. Why would someone pay for others profligacy? Tell me, you know your neighbor is a drunkard and is a gambler and spends money on aiyyashi. Then he realizes that he is broke now and comes to you for a handout of substantial amount. Would you give?
     
  10. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    There was no strong fiscal pact in the first place. Greeks lied about their finances to get inside the EU. It makes everyone accountable. The Greeks as well as the Germans.
     
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  11. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    This is a poor argument. It's not about an individual, but a bloc of developed countries. If Germany doesn't want to contribute to funds, it can opt out of the EU, or force Greece to go bankrupt. The ripples would be the same. Most thought Lehman's fall could be managed, but the collapse proved everybody wrong. And in here we're talking about countries.

    Whatever Germany needs to do, they should do on a priority basis. Yes, maybe, no ain't helping. As the biggest EU economy and a strong balance sheet in terms of liquidity, Germany has the biggest role to play. So the Germans need to play or opt out. Enough of their pussyfooting.
     
  12. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    DFI needs a bailout. Since you are in the "bloc" can you do the needful. We need $3000 and since you are a "powerhouse" I am sure you can do it.
     
  13. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    This is so lame than the previous one. DFI admin staff has millionaires and people riding BMWs. DFI is the Germany here.

    The crisis that looms will affect everybody. You, me, all.
     
  14. badguy2000

    badguy2000 Respected Member Senior Member

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    the easiest way is that germany quit Euro zoon
     
  15. ejazr

    ejazr Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well that's true. Someone should go to jail regarding the plain lying of Greek finances to get them into the Euro. This was certainly a criminal act.

    But overall, a Greek opt out of the EU is pretty much a default like Lehman Brothers except on the soverign or country level. It will be a crisis bigger than 2008. I don't think Germany would seriously let that happen at the end of the day because that would be disastrous. And if Greek defaults, then why not Spain or even Italy?
     
  16. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    So first Greece lies to Germany to get into EU and now Germany has to bail it out?
    Why the double punishment?
    Issues with Spain and Italy would make the Greek problem look minute. It's thaw two countries that will hurt the Euro more. The call Germany and France will have to take is can they let go of a few failed states and then be strong enough to pick up the pieces? Have a euro zone minus the PIGS?
     
  17. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    DFI is actually a " France". The staff of DFI is no millionaires. DFI runs on one man trying his best to run the forum but due to our enemies constantly attacking us, the cost of maintaining is very high. One off donation does not help. It requires constant donations. That does not happen and so right now it needs a bailout.
     
  18. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    I understand the devil in the details. But the reasoning you gave is poor.

    Weren't you saying Germany shouldn't pay for others mistake?

    If a friend of mine goes through a bad phase, I'll help him out, even though he might be a compulsive gambler, liar or aiyyash. I've done this in the past, and if needed and I have the liquidity, I'll do it again. I don't go looking for his mistakes, when he probably is looking upto me. I let him learn from his mistakes, by himself.
     
  19. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    The case here is that Greece lied about its fiscal problems, got into the EU and is now a mess.
    Secondly, Italy and Spain are bigger problems with much bigger economies. Is it germanys problem to pull them out with freebies out of tax payers money? Is Germany having limitless resources? Greece has failed to tighten its economy. Italy till recently had a PM more interested in bunga bunga parties.

    There cannot be dole outs. There can only be some lending with a strict repayment conditions.

    Try getting a loan from the bank. How hard they dig before they lend a single rupee in India. In the west, they treat money like waste paper and lend it to those who are sure to default. I mean Spain has $270 billion in just bad realty loans. What more must be there? Sometimes I feel it's good our banks are conservative. It saved us when sub prime crisis happened. It's saving us even now.
     
  20. Oracle

    Oracle New Member

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    Do you have any idea of the consequences of a Greek default? Already investors are nervous and moving out not only from Greece, but Spain too. Greece till the last government has implemented harsh austerity measures that German policy makers dictated. But that is not helping. Not only is liquidity which is being pumped is too little and in too late a fashion, but Government cuts is not aiding growth. There are no employment generated, and chaos is ruling the streets of Greece. It's only about time riots break out. People are living on stews, and sleeping on the streets.

    Germany can let Greece default, but the enormity of this crisis would send the EU zone into a depression and Germany would not remain unscathed either. Greece on the either hand would start afresh, however devalued their new or old currency is. They then are not liable for any debt repayment. Hundreds of billions of dollars in savings, assets etcetera would vanish in thin air. And if Germany then, still, continues with their arrogant mindset, Italy and Spain too would go the same way. They would think why implement tough austerity measures for peanuts, when they can default and set things afresh and new. A chain of defaults will set off, collapsing the whole world economy, and finally a depression, greater than the great depression of the 1930s.
     
  21. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    It's a bad precedent. A stupid country like Greece should be left alone. Spain can sell a bit of its land for money and so should Italy. Seriously! Why should someone be rescued because they were willfully following crappy policies? This PIGS thing has been around for quite some time. People saw Italy getting into trouble long before it did. Investors could and will lose confidence in those countries but there are other countries that have sound policies and will drive growth. India being one of them in spite of the recent drop in growth.
     
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