Something else made in China – Chinese GDP

smarterone

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Don't you think any statistical numbers from a country where election votes take 2 months to count, should automatically be taken with a grain of salt?
Mr. Tony who told u it takes 2 months to count votes in India? Elections may be spread over 2 months but India counts its votes at an amazing speed - under 12hrs for 544 constituencies which covers 714 million voters. We are the fastet in the world with our indigeniously developed EVMs. But how wud u know. After all a chinese election remains a pipe dream.
 
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Ray

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Smarterone,

You are new here and so possibly you did not know but ethnic slurs are not permitted.

Thank you.
 

Jagdpanther

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yes most of this stuff are bought by government of china so thats its machineary keep working. government money remains with itself only

its same way as DLF developers sold their fully prepared buldings/various projects to DLF assets (of -course that happened durning slowdown of world economy)

I think the best way to figure out the truth is going to china.

You can see everything through your eyes then you'll know the difference between two countries.
 

cw2005

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I thought the Chinese Government worris CPI more than GDP. I believe the most cook-up statistics is not the GDP but the CPI itself. Just ask any housewife doing food shopping and you would get some idea. Farm produces cost nearly double in 5 years in most cities.
 

Armand2REP

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18 million cars are projected to be sold in China this year, can you cook this?
I guess so since sales are only 12.45 million through November. :happy_2:

? More than 50 million PC were sold in China last year alone, can you cook this?
32 million were sold in 2008, so you are telling me you had 56% growth? How do you cook that?
 

badguy2000

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I guess so since sales are only 12.45 million through November. :happy_2:



32 million were sold in 2008, so you are telling me you had 56% growth? How do you cook that?
I don't know where you get "12.45M" .


well, it is reported that during the first 10 months,14.677 M autos were sold in CHina while only 9.5445M autos were sold in USD.

http://auto.21cn.com/huanan/yongche/2010/12/09/7994368.shtml

昨日,乘联会公布,前11月,国内乘用车(轿车类产品,含轿车、SUV、MPV、微客)销量为1185万辆,美国同期所有类型汽车销量仅为1041万辆。加上仍未公布的商用车销量,预计中国前11月汽车销量将超过美国300万辆以上。

值得一提的是,今年前10月,我国汽车销量已达1467.7万辆,超过去年全年。同期美国汽车销量仅有954.45万辆,比中国足足少出500万辆以上
 
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Ray

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Badguy's Chinese blurb above reads something thus:

Yesterday, published by the Federation, the first 11 months, the domestic passenger car (car products, including cars, SUV, MPV, micro) sales of 11.85 million, the United States over the same period sold only 1041 vehicles of all types million. Not yet announced plus commercial vehicle sales, is expected before November car sales in China will exceed U.S. 3,000,000 or more. It is worth mentioning that the first 10 months of this year, China's car sales reached 14.677 million, more than last year. Only over the same period the amount of 9,544,500 U.S. car, less than the Chinese out of 500 or more full.
 

Armand2REP

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China's GDP is "man-made," unreliable: top leader

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6B527D20101206
Hell, out of the mouth of their next leader. Using electricity consumption and coal by rail is not a real measure of economic activity. It is just an indicator and with an economy as inefficient as China, that only indicates more waste. If they aren't tracking units sold, how do we know any of their sales statistics are accurate?
 

Iamanidiot

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Hell, out of the mouth of their next leader. Using electricity consumption and coal by rail is not a real measure of economic activity. It is just an indicator and with an economy as inefficient as China, that only indicates more waste. If they aren't tracking units sold, how do we know any of their sales statistics are accurate?
Armand what will their actual GDP be? around the tune of 2-3 trillion dollars or something .One singaporean Chinese gentleman told me that stat fudging at the micro level itself and the whole thing is one illusion where one does not what is true or what is false
 

Armand2REP

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Armand what will their actual GDP be? around the tune of 2-3 trillion dollars or something .One singaporean Chinese gentleman told me that stat fudging at the micro level itself and the whole thing is one illusion where one does not what is true or what is false
Best way to calculate it is to look at their excess capacity. 25% in housing, 25-30% in commercial real-estate, 20% in steel, 15% in export factories. A conservative estimate would be cutting 20% of their current GDP will get you close to reality.
 

badguy2000

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Best way to calculate it is to look at their excess capacity. 25% in housing, 25-30% in commercial real-estate, 20% in steel, 15% in export factories. A conservative estimate would be cutting 20% of their current GDP will get you close to reality.
guy, this year, CHines GDP will grow 10%. the GDP of CHina 2010 will be about 38-40 trillion RBM ,that is about 6 trillion USD.
the per capital nominal GDP will be 4500-5000 USD.

in 2013, CHina's GDP will surpass 60 trillion RMB.that is about 10 trillion USD, if RMB keep its appreciation and exchange rate is 6:1

In 2015, China's GDP will be about 75-80 trillion USD, that is about 12-14 trillion USD.

any anticipation of the case in over 5 years is nonsense.
 
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neoshangh

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Well,I'm sorry for my strong emotion and agressive words.
 
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Ray

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IMF,World bank and CIA are cooking books!

Sure they are.
Don't worry.

They are raw barbarians (shengfan). China will soon make them cooked barbarians (shufan) so that they toe the Chinese line!
 

JustForLaughs

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The Truth About China's GDP Numbers
by: Jim Trippon December 13, 2010 | about: FXI / GXC / PGJ



By this author:
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article to back to yahoo finance

Some people will grab at any opportunity to bury their heads in the sand. It's hard for some to accept the fact that China is rising and U.S. influence is on the decline. A century ago it was just as inconceivable to many Britons that the sun was setting on the British Empire. The American century had begun. That's why scores of Internet pundits pounced on the latest WikiLeaks allegation that China's GDP figures were "man-made." "Fraud," they declared. Smugly they wrote that they knew it all along.

To many it must have seemed an open and shut case. The source of the quote was none other than vice premier Li Keqiang, the very man slated to become China's next premier, after Wen Jiabao steps down. Mr. Li's famous comments were made at a dinner in Beijing with then-U.S. Ambassador Clark Randt on March 12, 2007. Li'ss remarks focused on the challenges he faced when administering the province of Liaoning. Because of its legacy of failed state-owned enterprises, Liaoning was burdened with a huge number of unemployed workers.

As the Communist Party secretary for the northeastern province he often received inflated growth reports from party members who were eager to fill a quota or please their superiors. Li, to his credit, ignored the inflated numbers and relied on hard-to-fake indicators.

According to the leaked cable, Li used three metrics for a realistic view of growth:

1. Electricity consumption (which was up 10 percent in Liaoning in 2006)
2. Volume of rail cargo, which is accurate because fees are charged per unit of weight
3. Loans disbursed, which is accurate because interest fees are precise

Horrified U.S. commentators took one look and cried foul. One shocked China pundit called China's double-digit growth statistics a "sinister fairy-tale." Another concluded that China's growth figures were "fabricated" and wondered "if the growth story in China isn't dramatically overstated."

Scary stuff. But only if you ignore the details.

The Truth About the Chinese WikiLeak

The same pundits who claimed to be shocked by the leaked cable conducted their own cover-up. Li's comments referred only to provincial GDP figures. Any experienced China-hand knows very well that provincial statistics are always inflated.

Every year, China's provinces publish their local growth figures, and the end result is a mathematical impossibility. Last year all but two provinces exceeded the national growth rate. Everyone understands that such numbers are absurd. It's a little like the fictional students of Lake Wobegon, MN who are all supposedly "above average". The joke is on the reader.

Those who rushed to accuse China of fraud ignored that simple fact that provincial GDP figure are discarded when China's national GDP performance is measured. Why cloud a good argument with facts, after all? "Mmm – Kool Aid", one pundit jibed sarcastically, referring to the tainted punch that killed hundreds in Jonestown, Guyana years ago. But such crude sarcasm masks the fact that Li's comments were made during a discussion about the need for accurate figures about the state of the national economy.

Chinese leaders often refer to the nation's economic state as "complex" and "difficult". Indeed, those who understand China's many challenges know that its leaders face widely conflicting demands. Accurate data is vital to decision-making. There is nothing to be gained by issuing exaggerated claims about GDP growth.

So Why Do the Chinese Get ItWrong?

Actually Beijing does make mistakes with its GDP figures every year. It underestimates the number almost every time.

China's vast, entrepreneurial service economy is hard to track. So two years after official GDP figures have been issued, service economy figures are often added on. The corrected GDP figure is usually in the vicinity of $200 billion higher than previously thought. That's more than the GDP of many countries. Such late releases rarely get much attention. They come too late to have any effect on China's economic health or prestige. Often in the past Beijing has low-balled its growth projections, perhaps for the simple reason that it is safest to under-promise and over-deliver. An upside surprise makes everyone much happier than the reverse.

Looking forward to 2011, Beijing estimates that its economy will grow by 10 percent. A "fairy tale?" Well, the World Bank also estimates that China's GDP will indeed expand by 10 percent in 2011.

So, what about some hard numerical indicators like those that Li relied on for better provincial statistics?

* China's passenger-car deliveries to dealers rose to a record in November. Sales of passenger cars including multipurpose and sport- utility vehicles increased 29.3 percent to 1.34 million in the month
* China has long since surpassed the U.S in vehicle production with as many as 18 million units expected this year
* China represents more than 100 percent of incremental demand for all six of the most important metals: steel, iron ore, aluminum, copper, zinc and nickel
* China also uses 10 percent of the world's oil and generates 18 percent of the electricity, analysts at HSBC report
* HSBC says China's cement production will grow by 10.4 percent in 2011
* A 2010 report by the Brookings Institution says consumer driven domestic consumption will account for up to 50 percent of GDP by 2015, up from 33 percent last year, guaranteeing high growth going forward.

I could go on, but you get the point. China's explosive growth is real. And, it is affecting every economy in the world. Only a human version of an ostrich would hide its head in the sand and pretend that China is not real, that it is somehow perpetrating a fraud on the world's economists.

There may be wishful thinking among those who do not wish to see the end of America's days leading the global economy. But even proud Tokyo has admitted that China's growth is real. China has risen to number two, leaving Japan in third spot.

America still has China in its rearview mirror. But it would be a mistake to misjudge that speed at which China is gaining on the U.S. Especially out of pride, sarcasm or plain ignorance.

Disclosure: I have no positions in any stocks mentioned, and no plans to initiate any positions within the next 72 hours.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/241519-the-truth-about-china-s-gdp-numbers
 

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