Small arms of India

Kunal Biswas

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Quoting from other thread for same purpose >>



Me hold OFB made Black AK7 back in 2007, The Rifle was issued to 9th para and i had the opportunity to take a pic with it as it was very unique rifle in those days..

This Rifle is also Unique and not same as Bulgarian One, It had Gas regulator at front over gas tube, This was not in any other AK even today..



OFB removed it later, Since then OFB made lots of modifications on this Rifle, You cannot distinguished them unless you hold them and look for the markings..

================

The same Rifle is again renamed as Ghatak with modification..



Big thanks for that. How do we Id the ofb made A7? I believe we bought quite a few of those till Kalashnikov himself objected!
Worst thing is still we import third grade AK's from abroad...when will these DRDO"s OFB's make things..........
 

Mark Antony

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-INSAS was never meant for COIN duties because of its calibre so very few vetrans would complain about that aspect. It's like the BS article from "war is boring" saying "India's soldiers hate their counter insurgency rifle" or something in relation to the INSAS
-Forgeting the INSAS as a "bad dream" when it has served in the IA,IAF,IN,CAPFs and many in between for over 2 decades now, has been churned out in the millions and has been used in every enviroment India has to offer from the heights of Siachin to the Jungles of Mizoram and the deserts of Thar.
-Most of the "issues" with the INSAS relate back to early issues encountered in the late 90s, they have long since been rectified.


The INSAS is a sucess story, no matter how one tries to defame it.
National Pride is the best thing is the best thing in the world...but false pride and refusal to accept a nations shortcomings can be even more dangerous. If INSAS was such a great rifle, why were the armed forces looking for a replacement with in 10 years? Insas was not just a rifle but a platform which shouldve lasted decades. AK has been around for almost 68 years, AK-12 shall be its latest series, M16/AR15 platform too has lasted over 50 years, same goes for legendary FN FAL, or HKs of the world. Heck a tiny winy country like Singapore has its SAR-21 platform since 1990s...and lets not even discuss Israel. As some who has had a chance to look at INSAS closely, and a chance to fire Ar-15, AKs, FALs etc downrange in US. I mean what on earth are we even talking about here. INSAS is a rifle so unsure of itself, if it was a human it wudve needed therapy. Just dont get what the designers were trying to achieve here. a 4.5+ Kg weight and then firing an 5.56 round, an 18 inch barrel, which is neither 20" so as to get best performance of the 5.56 round, or 16" so as to be more suitable for CQB. If INSAS at its current weight and length was chambered for 7.62, we wouldn't even have this conversation, it would still be badly designed and have shit ergonomics, but that would all be compensated by the sheer power it would pack, lie the 1A1 SLR. In its current form, INSAS has the worst of both worlds. And lets not even get into reliability issues, its been replaced all across in current active battle fields, CRPF/Cobras r using Tavor, Indian Special forces use Tavor or other AK-variants. like Ak-103. A weapon is designed or created for use in fronts currently hot for an army. Indian Armed forces have been engaged in low intensity conflict for decade now, and shall continue to do so. INSAS simply fails to be a good COIN weapon, When it gets to be replaced by AKMs i mean WTF are even talking about here. Finally, INSAS was a bad experiment and a stillborn, we shuld learn from it and not repeat the same mistake again, coz the ives of our men are at stake here.
 

Mark Antony

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Our SFs and elite units also use INSAS. And that is considering the wide range of other rifles available to them.
And if INSAS is good enough by choice.......that is all that matters.
Indian SFs do not use INSAS, their weapon of choice is IMI Tavor, Ak-103, and other AK variants. Some might also be using FN SCAR.
 

Mark Antony

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None of the SFs in India use the INSAS anymore but that makes sense, the INSAS was meant to be a standard issue rifle for the entire military, not a specialist rifle for Spec Ops. Even US SFs don'tuse American weapons.
HaHa US SOCOM doesnt use M16/M4, FN SCAR H, Hk 416 etc are in use.
 

kr9

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None of the SFs in India use the INSAS anymore but that makes sense, the INSAS was meant to be a standard issue rifle for the entire military, not a specialist rifle for Spec Ops. Even US SFs don'tuse American weapons.
Please see below:

42.jpg 856658_415232651904829_1476618790_o.jpg

They are from IAF Garuds. The first one is from Pathankot.
And I have seen other images in various threads on this forum where elite units are using INSAS.

I was posting based on these. But I could be wrong. :confused1:
 

Mark Antony

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Couple of things need to be clear, INSAS is the family of firearms, You are talking abt 1B1 ..

I got to hear this alot, Does because its western and foreign means better ??, I am not sure all those shining looking rifle have what use in battle ..





All Western Rifles competing to replace 1B1 failed in trails in India during joint trails 2012 and 2014.

And i have used all three version of 1B1 INSAS in IA, Tell me more that i don`t know abt ..
Well your are an Indian Army vet, who as actually used these weapons in a conflict situation, i would obviously give tremendous weightage to your opinion. But then you are obviously not the sole representative voice of the entire Indian Armed Forces fraternity, and i would include paramilitary and CAPF as a part of them.

As someone who comes from a 3rd gen army family, with family members still serving and hopefully future generations shall continue to do so , and a massive gun enthusiast who actually fires weapons, albeit down range in the US, which i feel extremely lucky about.

Would humbly and respectfully request your response to the following queries regarding the INSAS family of weapons and more specifically 1B1 :-

1. What do u think should be the ideal/minimum service life for a combat rifle? After which an army should look for a replacement.
2. For how many years did the SLR serve as an IA service rifle?
3. How many countries apart from India currently use the INSAS platform? Do we have any current export orders? How many countries have shown interest in INSAS over the years?
4. How many armies in the world use such divergent platforms such as AKs based on 7.62x39, INSAS 5.56 NATO, and now also Tavor 5.56 NATO, which is also a bullpup.

The tender your talking about was so unrealistic, IA itself cancelled it. Mutlicaliber weapons are still in development stage. Bushmaster ACR could be cited as most notable example for Muliticaliber, but it hasnt really been successful. AK-12 would be probably the first successful prototype.

My criticism of INSAS is not because i am anti-indigenous system or a western stooge. Heck im a huge fan of the AK platform, its reliability, effectiveness and simplicity. Always feel we shudve gone for AK-74M as our standard service rifle instead of the INSAS.

I am anti-INSAS not because i want to push a certain agenda or set of firearms. But because its way below what an Indian soldier deserves and it doesnt do a good enough job of keeping him alive.

indigenous systems should`nt come on fore at the cost of soldiers lives or well being. We cannot keep this prime objective captive to any agenda such as make in india or anything else. An Indian soldier should be armed with the best available weapon which can keep him alive in battle. And me so many like me do not believe INSAS or its variants like upcoming Excalibur are capable of effectively doing so.
 

Chinmoy

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National Pride is the best thing is the best thing in the world...but false pride and refusal to accept a nations shortcomings can be even more dangerous. If INSAS was such a great rifle, why were the armed forces looking for a replacement with in 10 years? Insas was not just a rifle but a platform which shouldve lasted decades. AK has been around for almost 68 years, AK-12 shall be its latest series, M16/AR15 platform too has lasted over 50 years, same goes for legendary FN FAL, or HKs of the world. Heck a tiny winy country like Singapore has its SAR-21 platform since 1990s...and lets not even discuss Israel. As some who has had a chance to look at INSAS closely, and a chance to fire Ar-15, AKs, FALs etc downrange in US. I mean what on earth are we even talking about here. INSAS is a rifle so unsure of itself, if it was a human it wudve needed therapy. Just dont get what the designers were trying to achieve here. a 4.5+ Kg weight and then firing an 5.56 round, an 18 inch barrel, which is neither 20" so as to get best performance of the 5.56 round, or 16" so as to be more suitable for CQB. If INSAS at its current weight and length was chambered for 7.62, we wouldn't even have this conversation, it would still be badly designed and have shit ergonomics, but that would all be compensated by the sheer power it would pack, lie the 1A1 SLR. In its current form, INSAS has the worst of both worlds. And lets not even get into reliability issues, its been replaced all across in current active battle fields, CRPF/Cobras r using Tavor, Indian Special forces use Tavor or other AK-variants. like Ak-103. A weapon is designed or created for use in fronts currently hot for an army. Indian Armed forces have been engaged in low intensity conflict for decade now, and shall continue to do so. INSAS simply fails to be a good COIN weapon, When it gets to be replaced by AKMs i mean WTF are even talking about here. Finally, INSAS was a bad experiment and a stillborn, we shuld learn from it and not repeat the same mistake again, coz the ives of our men are at stake here.
When M16 came into being it was highly criticised. Even during Vietnam war the US soldiers used to despise it as a toy. Even the AK series which has been in service for this long in based on tried and tested German StG-44. If you look into the development history of all these paltforms, you would observe that these had'nt evolved in test range, but in real war. So despising a weapon which has just came out from drawing board as a failure is utter BS if not anything else. Its not about national pride, but its more of survival in long run. You simply don't throw a system as incompatible to bin, but a sane one would try to improve on it.
As far as incorporating 5.56 calibre, it was the demand of the force at the time of designing. They wanted a round which would incapacitate the enemy rather then blowing it off. Now after the product did came out, you simply can't wash hands and tell that it don't have the stopping power of 7.62 round.
My question is did someone from the user end invested his/her time during its development? Did someone from user end used some grey matter in it? Simply putting a demand and expecting the desk jockeys to satisfy you from each and every angle is not going to take you anywhere. In all the above nations which you listed, ex service man along with serving ones are actively involved in consultation, designing and development. But look at us, our ex service man are too busy in rallying and sit on at Jantar Mantar along with Rahul and Co for OROP. How could you expect something to evolve in such an environment.
But anyway, INSAS in itself did came a long way from its first use in Kargil. At current scenario it is much more reliable then what it had been at the time. All we need is some active involvement from all sectors to make it more ergonomically and technically sound.
 

Nuvneet Kundu

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Well your are an Indian Army vet, who as actually used these weapons in a conflict situation, i would obviously give tremendous weightage to your opinion. But then you are obviously not the sole representative voice of the entire Indian Armed Forces fraternity, and i would include paramilitary and CAPF as a part of them.

As someone who comes from a 3rd gen army family, with family members still serving and hopefully future generations shall continue to do so , and a massive gun enthusiast who actually fires weapons, albeit down range in the US, which i feel extremely lucky about.

Would humbly and respectfully request your response to the following queries regarding the INSAS family of weapons and more specifically 1B1 :-

1. What do u think should be the ideal/minimum service life for a combat rifle? After which an army should look for a replacement.
2. For how many years did the SLR serve as an IA service rifle?
3. How many countries apart from India currently use the INSAS platform? Do we have any current export orders? How many countries have shown interest in INSAS over the years?
4. How many armies in the world use such divergent platforms such as AKs based on 7.62x39, INSAS 5.56 NATO, and now also Tavor 5.56 NATO, which is also a bullpup.

The tender your talking about was so unrealistic, IA itself cancelled it. Mutlicaliber weapons are still in development stage. Bushmaster ACR could be cited as most notable example for Muliticaliber, but it hasnt really been successful. AK-12 would be probably the first successful prototype.

My criticism of INSAS is not because i am anti-indigenous system or a western stooge. Heck im a huge fan of the AK platform, its reliability, effectiveness and simplicity. Always feel we shudve gone for AK-74M as our standard service rifle instead of the INSAS.

I am anti-INSAS not because i want to push a certain agenda or set of firearms. But because its way below what an Indian soldier deserves and it doesnt do a good enough job of keeping him alive.

indigenous systems should`nt come on fore at the cost of soldiers lives or well being. We cannot keep this prime objective captive to any agenda such as make in india or anything else. An Indian soldier should be armed with the best available weapon which can keep him alive in battle. And me so many like me do not believe INSAS or its variants like upcoming Excalibur are capable of effectively doing so.
We have recently given a large order for AK guns, don't remember the details but it was on the news.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...lks-for-jv-with-india-to-manufacture-weapons/
 

Mark Antony

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We have recently given a large order for AK guns, don't remember the details but it was on the news.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...lks-for-jv-with-india-to-manufacture-weapons/
AK Platform is the most ideally suited for Indian conditions. Its battle proven, cheap and easy to make, easy to use, easy to train. Dunno why we didnt adopt and embrace it fully in the first place. Heck we cudve even gone for a 5.56 NATO variant if we were so in love with that round, ala the Galil. 5.45x39 is one hell of a round too, and very less recoil, would've been ideal with so many females now part of the paramilitary and CAPF etc.
 

Kunal Biswas

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I never claimed to be anything on web, Lets not say anything abt personal details ..

================

1. In such case, Requirement of a new design based on changes in training of soldiers and tactics involve, Like 1B1 GSQR prepared back in late 80s where burst option was given priority and length of the barrel, But Excalibur in full auto and little shorter barrel ..

2. Mid 60s to late 90s at its peak ..

3. Nepal and Bhutan given this Rifle as based on friendly nations tag not as Marketing export, Formerly India was not allowed to export its firearms ..

4. Google is a better option for searching such results ..

=================

Its the design of rifle mechanism is been talked here not the requirement of the tender, The design failed which shows vulnerability of such design in Indian conditions, 1b1 is design as per Army requirement as constantly changes are done as per Army needs for use, This cannot be done with a imported design let it be AK74 or anything else, As for some other Rifles you mentions, I cannot say anything abt it as i have not used them, 1b1 suits our training and terrain and like to stick with something which work ..

AK used in IA as a carbine not a rifle ..

Well your are an Indian Army vet, who as actually used these weapons in a conflict situation, i would obviously give tremendous weightage to your opinion.

Would humbly and respectfully request your response to the following queries regarding the INSAS family of weapons and more specifically 1B1 :-

1. What do u think should be the ideal/minimum service life for a combat rifle? After which an army should look for a replacement.
2. For how many years did the SLR serve as an IA service rifle?
3. How many countries apart from India currently use the INSAS platform? Do we have any current export orders? How many countries have shown interest in INSAS over the years?
4. How many armies in the world use such divergent platforms such as AKs based on 7.62x39, INSAS 5.56 NATO, and now also Tavor 5.56 NATO, which is also a bullpup.

The tender your talking about was so unrealistic, IA itself cancelled it. Mutlicaliber weapons are still in development stage. Bushmaster ACR could be cited as most notable example for Muliticaliber, but it hasnt really been successful. AK-12 would be probably the first successful prototype.

My criticism of INSAS is not because i am anti-indigenous system or a western stooge. Heck im a huge fan of the AK platform, its reliability, effectiveness and simplicity. Always feel we shudve gone for AK-74M as our standard service rifle instead of the INSAS.

I am anti-INSAS not because i want to push a certain agenda or set of firearms. But because its way below what an Indian soldier deserves and it doesnt do a good enough job of keeping him alive.

indigenous systems should`nt come on fore at the cost of soldiers lives or well being. We cannot keep this prime objective captive to any agenda such as make in india or anything else. An Indian soldier should be armed with the best available weapon which can keep him alive in battle. And me so many like me do not believe INSAS or its variants like upcoming Excalibur are capable of effectively doing so.
AK Platform is the most ideally suited for Indian conditions. Its battle proven, cheap and easy to make, easy to use, easy to train.
 
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Kunal Biswas

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Marcos ..

==================



Garuds ..

====================



PARA SF ..

===========================

INSAS 1B1 used in all SF, Its in their inventory as other rifle too ..

Indian SFs do not use INSAS.
 

Mark Antony

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Ah well the questions were rhetorical in nature, and i already knew the answers. Just wanted to point out the inadequacy of the INSAS system, which didnt attract the attention of any armies beyond few countries in the Indian influence zone of SAARC. Heck Galil alone was in use by over 40 countries. When you create something awesome, everyone wants to buy it, which helps in bringing the per unit cost down for your own forces, economy of scale. But INSAS aint exactly charming the world is it? Anyways you seem too sold to the idea of INSAS and its family of weapons and I am dead against it. So lets politely agree to disagree. Good bantering though. I am already liking this forum :)
 

Nuvneet Kundu

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AK Platform is the most ideally suited for Indian conditions. Its battle proven, cheap and easy to make, easy to use, easy to train. Dunno why we didnt adopt and embrace it fully in the first place. Heck we cudve even gone for a 5.56 NATO variant if we were so in love with that round, ala the Galil. 5.45x39 is one hell of a round too, and very less recoil, would've been ideal with so many females now part of the paramilitary and CAPF etc.
OFB lobbies and unions prevented the adoption of AK, no other reason. They don't want their monopoly challenged by other manufacturers.
 

Mark Antony

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When M16 came into being it was highly criticised. Even during Vietnam war the US soldiers used to despise it as a toy. Even the AK series which has been in service for this long in based on tried and tested German StG-44. If you look into the development history of all these paltforms, you would observe that these had'nt evolved in test range, but in real war. So despising a weapon which has just came out from drawing board as a failure is utter BS if not anything else. Its not about national pride, but its more of survival in long run. You simply don't throw a system as incompatible to bin, but a sane one would try to improve on it.
As far as incorporating 5.56 calibre, it was the demand of the force at the time of designing. They wanted a round which would incapacitate the enemy rather then blowing it off. Now after the product did came out, you simply can't wash hands and tell that it don't have the stopping power of 7.62 round.
My question is did someone from the user end invested his/her time during its development? Did someone from user end used some grey matter in it? Simply putting a demand and expecting the desk jockeys to satisfy you from each and every angle is not going to take you anywhere. In all the above nations which you listed, ex service man along with serving ones are actively involved in consultation, designing and development. But look at us, our ex service man are too busy in rallying and sit on at Jantar Mantar along with Rahul and Co for OROP. How could you expect something to evolve in such an environment.
But anyway, INSAS in itself did came a long way from its first use in Kargil. At current scenario it is much more reliable then what it had been at the time. All we need is some active involvement from all sectors to make it more ergonomically and technically sound.
Very logical points raised by you and let me respond to them.

1. The issue with INSAS is vis-a-vis 5.56 NATO is not about the round itself but the rifle, hell even Tavor, HK 416, Steyr AUG etc. all fire 5.56 but do not hear too many complaints about them do we? An 18 Inch poorly designed 4.5 KG+ rifle is simply too unwieldy too fire just a intermediate 5.56 round. It kinda reminds me of the too much dynamite but too little fuse joke, wonder if uve ever heard it.

2. M16 sure was a failure but that rifle evolved so much, its now on series M16A4 which is currently in use by US Marines and besides it still has a standard 20 inch barrel. How many upgrades has the INSAS had since the 90s except the black furniture change. Dont think we can call Excalibur and upgarde coz thats a 16 inch separate rifle altogether.

3. Regarding 7.62 Vs 5.56, that debate has been on since forever, and especially fueled coz the sheer inadequacies of the M4 in Afghanistan which is a large calier battlefield. Youd be surprised to know , that the biggest killer of US and allied troops in Afghanistan is not 7.62x39 but rather the ancient 7.62x54R. Solution has been then have two cartridge variants of the same rifle, eg. FN SCAR H and SCAR L, HK 416 and 417, or an AR 10 for that matter. Did we ever have an INSAS 7.62 or even hear of it for different theates of war?
Another solution to have middle ground cartridges like 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel. We never heard of INSAS being chambered in such experimental rounds did we?

4. Staying with Ammo, when ur faced with challenges, and inadequacies of ur rifle, u experiment with your ammo to atleast make it more effective, so u have deep penetrating rounds like the M855 and the steel core M855A1, for M16 and M4s. To compensate for their lack of punch and stopping power. Any such modifications or Ammo evolution for the INSAS?

5. Finally you make my own case, in the last part of your answer, INSAS is a badly designed and unwieldy weapon with no clear role and objective designated for it. And as you say it happened coz of little involvement of forces who were going to actually use it. So India should get back to design board and start afresh learn from the experiences of the past 20-30 years, and projected threats and challenges of next 20-30 and create a platform we can be proud of, and can also be a great export proposition as well, giving a boost to our arms industry. Till thats done adopt a weapon which is best suited for current and short term challenges whether foreign made or indigenous. As far as armed forces requirements go we should be origin agnostic.

INSAS is definitely not a platform for the future, nor for the present. hell it weighs more than 4.5 Kgs, while a full 20 inch barrel M16 still weighs less than 4 Kgs when fully loaded, and its almost a 60 yr old design now.

Time to reboot, reset and redesign.
 

Mark Antony

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OFB lobbies and unions prevented the adoption of AK, no other reason. They don't want their monopoly challenged by other manufacturers.
Which is so sad really...if one includes the entire armed forces, paramilitary, central armed forces, Reserves, and all Indian police. Thats easily 6 million+ uniformed johnnies. Imagine each of them armed with an Ak-74M 5.45X39. Thats one heck of firepower we are talking about here. And such huge numbers wudve driven the cost down massively. 5.45 is still the cheapest round you can buy even in US. But well if only wishes were horses. Indian bureaucracy doesn't need to buy ink for its pens, the blood of indian soldiers fits just well.
 

Nuvneet Kundu

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Very logical points raised by you and let me respond to them.

1. The issue with INSAS is vis-a-vis 5.56 NATO is not about the round itself but the rifle, hell even Tavor, HK 416, Steyr AUG etc. all fire 5.56 but do not hear too many complaints about them do we? An 18 Inch poorly designed 4.5 KG+ rifle is simply too unwieldy too fire just a intermediate 5.56 round. It kinda reminds me of the too much dynamite but too little fuse joke, wonder if uve ever heard it.

2. M16 sure was a failure but that rifle evolved so much, its now on series M16A4 which is currently in use by US Marines and besides it still has a standard 20 inch barrel. How many upgrades has the INSAS had since the 90s except the black furniture change. Dont think we can call Excalibur and upgarde coz thats a 16 inch separate rifle altogether.

3. Regarding 7.62 Vs 5.56, that debate has been on since forever, and especially fueled coz the sheer inadequacies of the M4 in Afghanistan which is a large calier battlefield. Youd be surprised to know , that the biggest killer of US and allied troops in Afghanistan is not 7.62x39 but rather the ancient 7.62x54R. Solution has been then have two cartridge variants of the same rifle, eg. FN SCAR H and SCAR L, HK 416 and 417, or an AR 10 for that matter. Did we ever have an INSAS 7.62 or even hear of it for different theates of war?
Another solution to have middle ground cartridges like 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendel. We never heard of INSAS being chambered in such experimental rounds did we?

4. Staying with Ammo, when ur faced with challenges, and inadequacies of ur rifle, u experiment with your ammo to atleast make it more effective, so u have deep penetrating rounds like the M855 and the steel core M855A1, for M16 and M4s. To compensate for their lack of punch and stopping power. Any such modifications or Ammo evolution for the INSAS?

5. Finally you make my own case, in the last part of your answer, INSAS is a badly designed and unwieldy weapon with no clear role and objective designated for it. And as you say it happened coz of little involvement of forces who were going to actually use it. So India should get back to design board and start afresh learn from the experiences of the past 20-30 years, and projected threats and challenges of next 20-30 and create a platform we can be proud of, and can also be a great export proposition as well, giving a boost to our arms industry. Till thats done adopt a weapon which is best suited for current and short term challenges whether foreign made or indigenous. As far as armed forces requirements go we should be origin agnostic.

INSAS is definitely not a platform for the future, nor for the present. hell it weighs more than 4.5 Kgs, while a full 20 inch barrel M16 still weighs less than 4 Kgs when fully loaded, and its almost a 60 yr old design now.

Time to reboot, reset and redesign.
There's research going on in India to consider the new 6.8 mm round. It's a good balance between stopping power and weight. It has almost the same punch as a 7.62 but you can carry 1.5 times more bullets.
 

abingdonboy

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HaHa US SOCOM doesnt use M16/M4, FN SCAR H, Hk 416 etc are in use.
That's what I said.

Please see below:

View attachment 7914 View attachment 7915

They are from IAF Garuds. The first one is from Pathankot.
And I have seen other images in various threads on this forum where elite units are using INSAS.

I was posting based on these. But I could be wrong. :confused1:
The guys on the left are NOT Garuds but IAF police, the other pic us quite dated. Since the Garuds adopted the Tavor, they haven't been seen with the INSAS since.
 

Mark Antony

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That's what I said.


The guys on the left are NOT Garuds but IAF police, the other pic us quite dated. Since the Garuds adopted the Tavor, they haven't been seen with the INSAS since.
Exactly, even Paras use Tavor. Its proven to be in favor with the Indian special forces community.
 

Mark Antony

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There's research going on in India to consider the new 6.8 mm round. It's a good balance between stopping power and weight. It has almost the same punch as a 7.62 but you can carry 1.5 times more bullets.
Ive never fired 6.5 Grendel coz Ar-15 chambered in it are very rare to find. But ive heard its better than even 6.8 SPC, Its supposed to stay supersonic at a distance of over 1200 metres when fired from a 20 inch barrel. Was reading somewhere Ak-12 might be chambered in a round similar to 6.5X39 Grendel. Dunno if its for a fact though.
 

sasum

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Couple of things need to be clear, INSAS is the family of firearms, You are talking abt 1B1 ..

I got to hear this alot, Does because its western and foreign means better ??, I am not sure all those shining looking rifle have what use in battle ..





All Western Rifles competing to replace 1B1 failed in trails in India during joint trails 2012 and 2014.

And i have used all three version of 1B1 INSAS in IA, Tell me more that i don`t know abt ..
In 1999, we fought a three-month-long undeclared war with Pakistan. It was also the combat debut of India’s new Insas battle rifle.

During the conflict—waged over the disputed and mountainous Kargil district in the province of Kashmir—the Indian troops’ rifles jammed, and their cheap, 20-round plastic magazines cracked in the cold weather.

To make a terrible weapon worse, the Insas had a habit of spraying oil directly onto the handler’s face and eyes.
Designed to shoot in semi-automatic and three-round burst modes, some soldiers would pull the trigger, and the gun would unexpectedly spray rounds like a fully automatic.

Soldiers also preferred the heavier 7.62-millimeter rounds in the FAL rifle, which the Insas and its 5.56-millimeter rounds replaced.

Then in 2005, Maoist rebels attacked a Nepalese army base. The Nepalese troops had Insas rifles bought from India. During the 10-hour-long battle, the rifles overheated and stopped working. The Maoists overran the base and killed 43 soldiers.

“Maybe the weapons we were using were not designed for a long fight,” Nepalese army Brig. Gen. Deepak Gurung said after the battle. “They malfunctioned".
In November, Central Reserve Police—which uses the rifle—finally had enough. The CRPF is a counter-insurgency force tasked with fighting Maoist in several eastern states.

“We have sent a proposal to the government that all Insas rifles with the force be replaced by AK rifles,” CRPF general director Dilip Trivedi told theTimes of India. “The Insas has a problem of jamming. Compared to AK and X-95 guns, Insas fails far more frequently.”

Another CRPF soldier alleged New Delhi chose to “lose the lives of our jawans to promote a faulty indigenous gun,” he said.
The Insas make up almost half of the CRPF’s arsenal. That’s become an acute problem as Prime Minister Narendra Modi push the counter-insurgents to crack down hard on the Naxalites.

As part of this offensive, the CRPF is relying more on heavier weapons such as mortars and grenade launchers. At the same time, the Maoists are building bigger bombs to use against the CRPF’s armored, “mine-protected” vehicles.

But there’s larger reasons why the Insas is such an awful gun.
To be sure, India had practical needs for a new weapon. Well into the 1990s, the Army and para-military relied on a mix of old, 1950s-era FALs, Lee-Enfields — first developed in the 1890s — and Russian-made AK-type rifles.

The Insas turned into a hybrid, combining features of both the FAL and the AK-47. But the result was an awkward weapon—and one prone to failure.

A few years ago, a pseudonymous Indian gun blogger inspected several of the rifles.
There’s lots of redundant parts and features that seem to serve no purpose except to make the rifle more complicated and expensive to produce. Its plastic hand guard is wobbly. The gas cylinder—which powers the reloading mechanism—is prone to breaking.

The Insas is also “several times” more expensive than an AK, according to a 2012 report in The Hindu.

In addition to the plastic parts, there’s “four different kinds of metal, an amalgam almost guaranteed to impair their functioning in the extreme [mountainous] climates of Siachen and Rajasthan,” the paper added.

Nilkamal Plastics—the Indian plastic furniture giant—produces the crack-prone magazines.

“In the end it shoots fairly accurately and with reasonable reliability,” the gun blogger wrote. “But it’s plagued by shitty quality and needless refinements of dubious value.”
After the poor performance in the Kargil War, the Indian Army fixed some of the rifle’s flaws—such as the problem with the spraying oil. But the rifle still sucks.

Last year, the Army tested the Israeli Galil ACE, the American CM-901 Modular Carbine and the Italian ARX-160 rifles as a potential replacements. But it’ll still take years to swap out the Insas. And that’s a big if.

But remember what the counter-insurgency troops said. India could always buy more AKs.
I would like to know about Trichy Assault Rifles. It created some buzz...stated to be better than AK-47.
 

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