Should India get the V-22 Osprey?

Discussion in 'Military Aviation' started by ace009, Aug 15, 2011.

  1. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    I think India should buy some of the V-22 Osprey if the USA agrees to their sale.
    These birds are awesome and will add a lot of lift/ transport and expeditionary strike capability to India.

    Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I would like to know what the members have to say.
     
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  3. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    A lot of members here may not like my answer, but my answer to your question is "yes." The V22 is the future of VERTOL aircrafts that is already now on offer.
     
  4. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    (self-deleted, repost)
     
  5. nrj

    nrj Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    VRS flight characteristics of V-22 are very poor, various engine problems & inefficiency in hovering operations makes it a bad choice. Not to forget it has failed to meet threshold requirements for survivable emergency landing.
     
  6. utubekhiladi

    utubekhiladi The Preacher Elite Member

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    v-22 is very useless..... it is just a show-off..nothing else
     
  7. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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  8. Yusuf

    Yusuf GUARDIAN Administrator

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    It is a useful bird for certain operations. Will not be a bad buy if available. The USMC which does all the expeditionary work has invested heavily into this and they are not fools to do so.
     
  9. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    [​IMG]




    I would love to see the proposed E-2D mounted on the V 22 which will give it enough versatility to take off from an AC.
     
  10. ace009

    ace009 Freakin' Fighter fan Elite Member

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    AFAIK, the V-22 gives the USMC some unique capabilities, which is why they have sworn by the aircraft. Also, the USN and USAF were interested enough to get into the program themselves.
    The speed of the Osprey is almost twice that of a regular Helo of similar size, although the load carrying capability is less. However, the Osprey also has a much larger combat radius and a greater ferry range than a comparable size Helo.
    Overall, IMHO the Indian Marines can certainly do with ~10-12 V-22s.
     
  11. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    Well I thought the USMC was under the USN command. India has issued an RFI for the second LPD and San Antonio class ships are designed to operate V 22 and the Americans are ready to share it as Boeing has also offered us the proposed E-2D mounted Osprey for carrier operations and San Antonio class ships are awaiting CCS approval.
     
  12. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    Excellent platform for Commando insertion, Once took off from the base have a in-flight refueling and dropping men at building tops..

    NSG should have it, For Internal security..
     
  13. plugwater

    plugwater Elite Member Elite Member

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    Even CH-47 can drop commandos in roof tops. Its a super waste if we buy fro NSG.

    It can be extremely useful for the marine brigade we are trying to raise. These ACs are not needed now, once LPDs are build we can buy them or when there is a urgent requirement to operate a awacs from our carriers. But i still dont think we can afford these.
     
  14. SATISH

    SATISH DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

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    There always is an urgent requirement of AWACS from our AC anytime of the ay. It has been well discussed and with the advent of AShCM I think that ship borne AWACS will play a very important role. The major disadvantage of the Heli mounted AEW system is the huge rotor and the absence of space inside the heli to conduct operations in desired level and this has been managed satisfactorily in the tilt rotor aircraft and the V 22 dimensions state that it can also have control systems onboard.
     
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  15. Kunal Biswas

    Kunal Biswas Member of the Year 2011 Moderator

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    The Problems With V22


    Why use CH-47 when MI-17 gives lot than what needs..

    The unique ability of V22 is it can transform from helo mode to an Aircraft mode, Enhancing range and speed compare to any operational Helo, while carrying good amount of payload, It can travel any place in or out country in SO tasks..

    Why NSG is coz its elite anti-terror in country and we dont have NSG cells every where in country..



    V22 is riddle with problem not corrected yet, Its not a good choice for Indian Marines, Why :


    1. The V-22 weighs twice as much as the old CH-46E, burns twice as much fuel, but can only carry the same payload and number of passengers as that 40-year old design, and this according to Boeing. ( http://www.boeing.com/rotorcraft/military/ch46e/ch46espec.htm ) In short, the V-22 is heavy weight size helicopter with poor medium lift performance.

    2.
    This is a key issue, yet the program has refused to test a one engine out vertical landing of a loaded V-22. They say a V-22 can convert to the airplane mode and land safely at an airfield with a rolling landing with just one engine. However, a V-22 with rotors up may be too close to the ground to allow conversion to the airplane mode as it falls. This also assumes that a friendly airfield is in range, which is rarely the case while operating from ships at sea. During sea trials last year, all the oil in one engine leaked out so it shut down. This happened on the deck of a ship, so an unplanned one-engine out test did not occur. However, one V-22 team member admitted to Aviation Week that a one-engine vertical landing would damage a V-22, although the crew should escape serious injury. Since engine failures are not unusual, the Marines can expect to have a few $115 million V-22s suffer serious damage from hard emergency landings each year.

    3.
    After years of evasion, the V-22 program now admits the V-22 rotors are too small for autorotation to allow a safe vertical landing should both engines fail. They point out that losing both engines would be extremely rare, so they claim autorotation is not an issue. However, it will be an issue in combat where enemy fire may damage both engines. As the author noted, problems with fuel gauges, fuel pumps, fuel contamination, aircraft fire, or plain pilot error can starve both engines of fuel and cause them to shut down. Here is an example from the Navy Safety Center ( http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/approach/vault/articles/0027.htm ) where autorotation allowed a crew to safely exit a helicopter which lost both engines due to a fuel pump malfunction.

    4.
    Another problem is the V-22 uses a unique lightweight 5000 psi hydraulic system that caused many problems in the past, spouting leaks 171 times during operational testing in 2000 and was the primary cause of the last fatal crash. Helicopters use larger and heavier 3000psi systems with stainless steel lines. While titanium is stronger than stainless steel, it is more brittle, more costly, and more difficult to manufacture. This is documented in a June 24, 2002 Department of Defense Inspector General Report ( http://www.dodig.osd.mil/Audit/reports/fy02/02114sum.htm ) which shows the hydraulic lines on the first dozen V-22 production aircraft were failing after less than 10% of their expected service life. A hydraulic line leaked somewhere on a V-22 after every five hours of flight time, and every twenty hours it was a line used for flight control. V-22 program managers claimed that leaks weren't important because the hydraulics system is triply redundant. However, on page 1 of the DOD IG report it notes: "The design results in a triply redundant hydraulic system, provided there are no failures in the common hydraulic lines of the three subsystems."



    [FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]This copy was provided by a concerned former Marine Corps officer:
    Why the V-22 Osprey is Unsafe
    [/FONT]

    IN use KA-31 AWACS presently, by the time V-22 FOAEW mature enough India can operate carrier bourn AWACS like Hawkeye E-2D..
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
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  16. plugwater

    plugwater Elite Member Elite Member

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    CH-17 or Mi-17 or any normal chopper all are capable enough to put commandos in rooftops so why use ultra expensive V-22 ?
    Its more logical to transport NSG commandos in planes and then use Mi-17 for rooftop drop than using v-22.
    This aircraft will mature in few years since its a new model it tends to have lot of troubles. Give it some more time!
    We cant operate E-2d from vikra or viraat. So the idea of using v-22 as awacs platform.

    Anyway that article is very old and it can land and take off vertically with one engine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  17. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    well i love the V-22, i see that it can be a very useful thing in the IAF. I particularly find that mi-8/17s, Dhruvs, Chinooks are good for Spec ops. V-22 i think could play a key role in keep siachen safe. It has a service cieling of over 25000 ft, it should be able to land with a good payload at Siachen and could be instruemental due to its good payload ability. The current choppers flying to Siachen are the chetaks and Dhruv mk-3. Though the dhruv mk-3 can carry upto 600 kg, the v-22 should be able to carry more supplies. It can also be used at a lot in high altitude operations and mountain warfare. I hope the problems it still has are fixed soon and India orders a suqadron or 2 of these.
     
  18. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    V22 is every bit an over priced junk, it does not do anything an Helicopter in its class can do, they are just placing orders to salvage the over spent program!
     
  19. plugwater

    plugwater Elite Member Elite Member

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    Overpriced - Yes
    Junk - No

    It is more advanced than helicopter of its class. check again!

    Then why US is not ordering any F-22 ? This aircraft is turning into a huge success just wait and see.
     
  20. Godless-Kafir

    Godless-Kafir DFI Buddha Senior Member

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    When i first saw this in Discovery channel i thought what an great idea and why dont all aircraft's fly that way but the fact is thrust required for VTOL is simply to high and the end result is compromise in performance.

    V-22---------------------Costs 115-million$ and carry load is 27,000kgs.

    Super Stallion CH-53E----Costs 22-million$ and carry load is 33,000kgs.

    Which one you would buy is any ones guess. India should never buy that.
     
  21. Immanuel

    Immanuel Senior Member Senior Member

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    The v-22 sure is expensive but certainly not junk. It flies faster than any helo, has a higher altitude cieling and can land like a helo, it flies well in plane mode and is very maneuverable. It can carry upto 9000 kg of internal cargo or over 6000kg of external payload. It will be able to quickly move m-777s and other light field guns, spec ops light strike vehicles, it can even fascilitate both HALO and HAHO operations. Not so sure if it can land at Siachen but certainly can air drop good amount of supplies there. Further improvements are being developed to enhance situational awareness and reliability. It also carries a .50 cal M-2 heavy machine gun or the Gau-17 minigun, either way its a very useful aircraft. It can also be deployed from Ships, advanced landing grounds in high altitude areas and use it for various types of missions.
     

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