Scenario for Restructuring Indian Army and their weapons?

[Bhadra]

More like marksmanship training there, Now days good shooter are send in US & Germany for training specially Sniper training..

Thank you for information of which I am not aware ! It is good India can afford to send sniper to USA for training !!

 

[Killswitch]

Regarding Equipment..
An Army Should always have spare for there Rifles, Plenty of Bullets and the Rifle should be very reliable with needed accuracy...

My Idea on the Subject:

I WISH the army could have a common carbine/rifle/lmg/sniper but the INSAS failed to deliver this scenario.

The upgraded Russian family looks promising but I dont think it will be chosen.


The first post about what the army may be equipped with is INSANE!

There are so many makes and models logistics would be a NIGHTMARE.

The IA needs to standardize above all else.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I have seen insane, That is still fine post to me..

'THE MORE YOU SHARE, THE MORE YOU LEARN..'

 

[Dixit13]

Look i m not a big expert on weapon but what i mentioned in my first post is more about their tactical usability. I do agree we should standardized round like 7.62x39mm for most of the weapons. We can even partner with some international company to Design/produce such weapons in India. Even U.S GI complained 5.56x round stopping power in Somalia (Battle of Mogadishu).

 

[Dixit13]

Do not make mockery of of an objective based and functional result and mission oriented organisation called Army.

So you start with a fire team ?
So you think the mission of the Army in basic is to fire ??
NO that is the basic function of Tanks and Guns, aircraft and ships. Their movement is primarily to fire where movement of

The function of basic army bricks called infantry is to hold ground and close in with the enemy. For that, something more than fire is needed.infantry is to close in with the enemy and destroy him in close combat even with your teeth and nails.


The basic tactics of infantry is fire and move. It is not only fire. Fire is only a support and destructive element to cover the movement. Movement is the winning element as that helps one to close in with the enemy.

Therefore squad consists of fire support element and assault element who function part of the one single whole reversing roles as the situation so demands.

Rest all you wrote is just bunkum ! A platoon can never be 70 men... the resources of platoon are inadequate for those number to be kept into a tight organisation.

I hope we all understand "organisation".

I Think you need to learn some more.....can't discuss or argue ppl like you. Btw a a squad is composed of two fire-teams.
None are so empty who are full of themselves.

 

[Ray]

I Think you need to learn some more.....can't discuss or argue ppl like you. Btw a a squad is composed of two fire-teams.
None are so empty who are full of themselves.

If by squad you mean a section, then in the Indian Army it is NOT composed of two fire teams.

In the Indian Army, one is the assault group and the other is the fire support group and both have different functions.

I presume the problem arises with the use of foreign army terms when one is talking of the Indian Army.

One of the issue that vexes is that with the induction of new fire support weapons in a section, the assault group is getting smaller.

The assault group is the one which goes to the objective end and captures the area given to them.

Obviously with less 'bayonet strength' as it called to indicated the fighting and staying power (till the fire support group fetches up after assault), the task of physically overwhelming the objective area given to the assault group become more difficult with lesser numbers out there to do the task!

 

[Dixit13]

If by squad you mean a section, then in the Indian Army it is NOT composed of two fire teams.

In the Indian Army, one is the assault group and the other is the fire support group and both have different functions.

I presume the problem arises with the use of foreign army terms when one is talking of the Indian Army.

Yes u r right......But """"""Restructuring Scenario""""""

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I do agree we should standardized round like 7.62x39mm for most of the weapons. .

You see, One can always recalibrate the weapon if produce inside country, One can use 6.8mm or 6.5mm which preform good and better..

What Insas did, It gather best qualities of its time and combine into those in a single rifle, Basically Insas internals are of AKM and gas system from FAL..

And it use 5.56mm..

---------------------------

Same way one can update Insas by foreign companies like Magpul and others and manufacture it in reputed Private sector in India..

Insas have qualities that AK dont have..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Btw a a squad is composed of two fire-teams.
None are so empty who are full of themselves.

Not in regulars but in SF..

 

[Ray]

Yes u r right......But """"""Restructuring Scenario""""""

With due respect, I will say I found it too far beyond my pay grade!

 

[Ray]

Yes u r right......But """"""Restructuring Scenario""""""

Scenario for Restructuring Indian Army and their weapons?


Post #1

Fireteam: 4-8
Squad: 8-22
Platoon: 30-70
Company: 70-250
Battalion: 300-1000
Brigade: 3000-5000
Division: 10,000-20,000

Roles and Wepon systems:

Sniper (1)
Primary weapon: Dragunov SVD59, Accuracy International AS50 Or L115A3 AWM (scopes, suppressor, nightvision and thermal)
Secondary weapon : Micro UZI, MP-7 OR Beretta 92

MarksMan (2)
Primary weapon: Heckler & Koch HK417 OR IMI Galil 7.62 Sniper {{scopes, suppressor and nightvision}}
Secondary weapon : Glock 17 OR Beretta 92

infantry machine gunner(1-2)
Primary weapon: M249 light machine gun, FN Minimi OR PK machine gun
Secondary weapon : FN Five-seven OR Glock 17

Point Man (1-2) (depending on environment)
Primary weapon: kriss super v, Heckler & Koch HK416, Special Operations Assault Rifle (SOAR) {{with scopes, nightvision}}
Secondary weapon : FN Five-seven (suppressor)

Infantry Anti-Tank Missileman (1-2)
Primary weapon: Carl Gustav, JAVELIN, RPG-29 OR Saab AT/4 (may b MPAD if situation requires)
Secondary weapon : FN P90, Glock 17 Or Beretta 92

Infantry Mans (7-13)
Primary weapon: AK-47/AKM/103 , IMI Tavor TAR-21, Heckler & Koch HK416 (improved M4), 1B1 INSAS (M203, scopes)
Secondary weapon : Beretta 92,


Now with good training and tactics you can defeat any modern army

*******************

You have not given the rationale and that is why understanding is becoming a problem.

Every weapon and every organisation has a rationale and it is based on the Threat Analysis.

 

[Dixit13]

M16 which fires 5.56 is more accurate than AKM, firing 7.62 which has more stopping power. My concern is that we should get best of both world and the round must be produced in India by Indian manufactures.

 

[Ray]

@Kunal,

Can you amplify as to the organisation of the fire teams and their weapons.

That might help!

 

[Dixit13]

Scenario for Restructuring Indian Army and their weapons?


Post #1



*******************

You have not given the rationale and that is why understanding is becoming a problem.

Every weapon and every organisation has a rationale and it is based on the Threat Analysis.

---

rationales behind that is to kill and not get killed in action

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Ray Sir, Is from Army he was Brigadier and most importantly a third generation Solider..

He know what he is saying, Try to understand what he is asking..

---rationales behind that is to kill and not get killed in action

 

[Ray]

---

rationales behind that is to kill and not get killed in action

Use Nukes.

Easiest!

 

[Ray]

Dixit,

Let us look at rationale.

A rifle has a certain effective (killing guaranteed) range.

But what about the enemy far away?

You have the LMG.

Should there be something to cover longer ranges than that?

You have the MMG.

But what about if a tanks come?

You have Anti Tank Weapons.

But then there will be dead ground that cannot be taken on by Direct Firing weapons mentioned.

So, you have the Mortars.

And then there is the area of responsibility of each level of command and so the weapons that fit that area of responsibility is given to that 'brick' of the organisation.

And as it build up, up the scale, the longer range weapons take over, like arty and so on.

The organisations i.e. section, platoon, battalion, brigade, division, corps, army are also based on the requirement for fighting and planning a battle and campaigns!

A section commander would not be planning campaigns!

 

[Dixit13]

Ray shaab, read (wiki) about the weapons i have mentioned and you will understand their use. And the Classification i have specified in my first post, is about solider duties much more job specific than a, ""fire team and support team "". Its just a thought sir......no offense

 

[Dixit13]

Dixit,

Let us look at rationale.

A rifle has a certain effective (killing guaranteed) range.

But what about the enemy far away?

You have the LMG.

Should there be something to cover longer ranges than that?

You have the MMG.

But what about if a tanks come?

You have Anti Tank Weapons.

But then there will be dead ground that cannot be taken on by Direct Firing weapons mentioned.

So, you have the Mortars.

And then there is the area of responsibility of each level of command and so the weapons that fit that area of responsibility is given to that 'brick' of the organisation.

And as it build up, up the scale, the longer range weapons take over, like arty and so on.

Ray you are right.....
Lets change the thread title to ""Scenario for Restructuring Indian Army Squad and their weapons?"""

 

[Kunal Biswas]

In a fire team consist of 6 men in IA SF..

1. Leader ( Sub / officer ) : Rifle / Carbine & MGL
2. Communication : GPMG
3. Navigation : Sniper
4. Medical : Rifle
5. Weapon : Rifle with UBGL
6. Demolition : Rifle

Who ever best in its own criteria
------------------------------------------------------

In regular a Squad can be of 10 - 15

Can be divided into two fire teams, Lets take 10..


Leader : Rifle / Carbine
2 x LMG, 1 x RL, 1 x Marksman, 5 x Rifle, 1x MGL, 2 UBGL, Explosive ( Communication, Medic, Demolition chaps. ) can change as per need, You can add mortar too, AGL-30, Increase men too..


Most importantly its upto situation, In CT ops a sqaud may be heavy armed for short distance ambush ( Withing 2-3km range ), But for a LRP a squad may be lightly armed ( 10-20km or more range )..