Russian fleet comes within 30 miles of Britain

Ray

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Russia will never be No. 2 naval power again. That position is a give away to China.

Putin and his swagger will never rise above No. 3 (they could further slide down if India start asserting her naval might).
Russia is far ahead of naval technology and experience.

Therefore, though I maybe wrong, but I don't think I am wrong, China is nowhere in naval designs of technology compared to Russia hence is a non starter in the competition with the Russian.

Russian weakness is in aircraft carriers.
 

Ray

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Maybe because the RN felt compelled to send in a frigate to deter the Russian boat from further moving closer to UK waters.
That would be the normal reaction to unidentified/ hostile naval vessel closing in on the coast.
 

pankaj nema

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Russia will never be No. 2 naval power again. That position is a give away to China.

Putin and his swagger will never rise above No. 3 (they could further slide down if India start asserting her naval might).
China's manufacturing capabilities and technology is much inferior than Russia

Russia ONLY needs good amount of money

Russian Subs both Nuclear and diesel electric as well as frigates destroyers are all of BETTER quality

Russia has MADE aircraft carriers in the past It can do again China is STILL learning how to make a NEW
carrier while refitting Varyag

J15 is a rip off of the Su 33 carrier plane

Russia RECENTLY refused to sell ARRESTOR technology to China which is needed for aircraft carriers

Russia SELLS AL 31 engines to China

Russia has better AWACS and Missiles of all types than China

China has only LOTS of Dollars but is still far behind in technology

And yeah i forgot about PAKFA versus J 20

J 10 and J11 are the only Chinese achievements so far but both are inferior than
Su 27 Su30 , Su 35 Su 34 Mig 29 and Mig 31
 
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asianobserve

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Russian fleet is very good in term of both tactics and weaponry systems..

British fleet is now remain as a coastal defense fleet, They have very advance frigates but very few..



I think Russian were there to say 'Hi ' !


It would be too much to characterise the RN as now a coastal defense fleet. The RN still has the something to show in international reach. It still has some of the most menacing boomers on active duty.

I agree though that Russia was trying to say hi. Maybe on direct order from the Kremlin twins to divert attention away from their problematic parliamentary elections...:pound:
 

Ray

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First Sea Lord's warning of the Royal Navy capability gaps.

 
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nrj

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It does not even have aircrafts on the deck? Just what are they thinking wandering into potential harms way?
or those aircraft were flying or you can not see them in a 2-d picture in side-view.
 

nrj

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Probably no naval force knows northern hemispherical waters better than Russian Navy.
 

Ray

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[
Royal Navy sackings 'will lose aircraft carriers skills forever'

The officer, who plays a key role in maintaining the Fleet, has also told colleagues that there are substantial doubts over whether the Navy will have enough sailors to man its ships after it will lose one in seven sailors in defence cuts.

The lack of adequately training personnel could delay the carrier coming into service by another three or four years, the Navy commander has said.

Another officer has told The Telegraph that the loss of carrier deck handling skills could prove "disastrous" with fatal accidents caused by inexperienced ratings.

His warning came on the day that the Ministry of Defence announced 1,020 sailors have been sacked, including 350 compulsory redundancies, with dozens coming from warships that have fought in the Libya campaign.

With a total of 5,000 officers and ratings going over the next three years there are substantial fears that there will not be enough sailors to man the 42 surface ships left in the Fleet.

With the Navy's 7,000 Royal Marines and 4,000 men from the Submarine Service protected from cuts there will be only 19,000 sailors left to man the surface fleet.

Officers now believe it will be near impossible to adequately man all 19 frigates and destroyers plus 23 other ships including the aircraft carrier.

With the loss of the aircraft carriers Ark Royal and Illustrious there is little employment for highly specialised deck crew that safely fly and recover aircraft.

The senior officer's concerns that have been passed on to the head of the Navy, are that with the "skills wastage and inability to ramp up level of skills" the new carriers cannot be brought in "in the timescale envisaged".

"I believe it would not be possible given the reduction in the Navy and difficulty of retraining these skills that they can be brought in time scales envisaged.

"The experienced people who we would put on ships are all leaving because they don't have work. This situation is considerably worrying."

His warnings come after Admiral Sir Mark Stanhope, the First Sea Lord, said the current level of Navy's operations was "unsustainable"

While the Navy has carefully planned getting 750 sailors on board the first carrier, Queen Elizabeth, there will be few sailors to man it once the second carrier, Prince of Wales, becomes operational around 2019.

Although it is getting carrier training from both the French and Americans it will still have been 42 years since the Navy last operated a conventional aircraft carrier.

But Commodore Michael Mansergh, Director Naval Personnel, said there were "plans already in place" to meet fill the jobs despite the defence cuts.

"We are able to generate the correct skill sets in the right numbers to man HMS Queen Elizabeth from 2016."

Royal Navy sackings 'will lose aircraft carriers skills forever' - Telegraph
At the beginning of the 1990s, the Royal Navy geared for the Cold War - with its three small aircraft carriers and a force of anti-submarine frigates and destroyers, its main purpose was to search for and destroy Soviet submarines in the North Atlantic. The 1982 Falklands War proved a need for the Royal Navy to maintain an expeditionary capability.

The end of the Cold war the Royal Navy underwent gradual reduction in the size of its surface fleet. The Sea Harriers have been decommissioned and until Joint Combat Aircraft (F-35) and the Queen Elizabeth-class carriers are inducted, the RN will have no carrier strike capability. Three Type 23 frigates have been sold to Chile and 14 are still in service.

Over the course of the 1990s and the 2000s, the navy has begun a series of projects to improve its fleet, with a view to providing enhanced capabilities, although many of these have been cut or cancelled. This has led to the replacement of smaller and more numerous units with fewer, but larger, units. The main examples of this are the replacement of Type 42 destroyers with half as many Type 45s and the confirmed replacement of the three 20,000 tonne Invincible-class aircraft carriers with two 65,000 tonne Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers.

There are currently 8 ships and submarines under construction: four Astute-class submarines (boats 3-6), the final two Type 45 destroyers (ships 5 & 6), and the two Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers, which began construction in July 2009 and May 2011. Preparatory and design work has begun on the Type 26 frigate programme, which will replace the existing frigate fleet from 2020, as well as a (now separate) scheme to replace a large number of the Royal Navy's minor vessels.

Aircraft carriers

A major source of naval power projection is the aircraft carrier. The one remaining ship of the Invincible class has limited capabilities, due not only to her small size, but also to the retirement in 2010 of the main type of aircraft on board - the Harrier GR7/GR9. In the 1998 Strategic Defence Review the Ministry of Defence announced that it would replace the Invincible class with a pair of much larger vessels of the Queen Elizabeth class, in a project that was originally designated as "CVF" (Carrier Vessel Future).

These two ships, Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales, were ordered in 2007 and will each displace approximately 65,000 tonnes and be some 280 metres long, making them the largest vessels ever operated by the Royal Navy. They will operate the F-35 Lightning II Joint Combat Aircraft, which is planned for both the Fleet Air Arm and the Royal Air Force to replace the Harrier.

They will also operate the Merlin ASW helicopter, and a platform for Maritime Airborne Surveillance and Control (MASC), among the contenders for which are a modified version of the Merlin, the E-2 Hawkeye or a modified version of the V-22 Osprey.

Destroyers

The Royal Navy began looking at ways of replacing the small and dated Type 42 air defence destroyers in the mid-1980s. After two failed collaborative efforts - the NFR-90 project and Project Horizon (in association with France and Italy), the government decided that a new class of destroyer, the Type 45, would replace them.

Type 45 destroyers displace approximately 7350 tonnes, which is considerably larger than their predecessors, and they are the largest combat ships (except aircraft carriers and amphibious vessels) built since the Tiger class of the mid 1950s. For its primary mission, it is equipped with the Sea Viper integrated anti-aircraft system. As with the Type 42, the Type 45 will also have a limited anti-surface/anti-submarine role, being equipped with a 4.5in gun and a helicopter, which can be either a Lynx, Lynx Wildcat or Merlin.

Although they have not initially been fitted with anti-ship or land attack missiles, their size allows upgrades to be made if required, giving it an enhanced multi-role capability. Type 45s have a crew of 190, around one hundred less than the Type 42. Together with the larger size of the vessel, this allows for much better living quarters.

The first unit of the class, Daring was launched in February 2006, handed over to the MoD in December 2008 and commissioned in July 2009. The second, Dauntless, was commissioned on 3 June 2010, while the third, Diamond, began sea trials on 10 September 2009. The three remaining units, Dragon, Defender and Duncan are, as of 2010, in various stages of fitting out.

As of July 2011, three Type 42s remain in service; Liverpool, Edinburgh and York. These will be withdrawn as the Type 45s enter service.

In November 2010, the class saw its first firing of the ships' primary weapon, the Sea Viper SAM. HMS Dauntless, the 2nd ship of the class, had the honour of firing Sea Viper in the Outer Hebrides. The launch(es) went ahead without fault and the weapon should be declared operational in the near future.

The majority of the navy's escorts are thirteen Type 23s, eight of the Type 23s are to be refitted and equipped with the highly capable Type 2087 towed-array sonar.

BAE Systems at the request of the MoD, is under a 4 year contract to design the Type 26 Global Combat Ship (Type 26 frigate) formerly known as the Future Surface Combatant programme.

This had crystallised into the three requirements - C1, C2 and C3:

C1 (Type xx) - an Anti Submarine Warfare task group enabled platform
C2 (Type xx) - a more general purpose platform
C3 (Global Corvette) to replace a larger number of smaller vessel classes, such as minesweepers, patrol and survey ships.[1]

The October 2010 Strategic Defence and Security Review (SDSR) outlined a total frigate force of 13 Type 23 frigates and the decommissioning of the 4 remaining Type 22 frigates. The SDSR further plans to replace the 13 Type 23 frigates with the new Type 26 frigate. The first Type 26 will enter service in 2020 and will start replacing older, non-upgraded, Type 23s.

The MCM, Hydrographic and Patrol Capability is stated to complete the future surface fleet. MHPC, previously known as C3, will replace a number of existing patrol, survey and minehunter vessels.

Submarines

n the early 1990s, the Royal Navy's submarine force was already in the process of being upgraded. The Trafalgar-class SSNs, fitted with an ultra quiet pump-jet propulsion system, were still entering service, while the first of the Vanguard-class SSBNs was close to completion. Today, the modernisation of the Royal Navy's submarine force centres on the Astute-class SSNs and the Swiftsure & Trafalgar Update Final Phase (S&TUFP). In 1997, an order was placed for three units of the Astute class, which was designed as the SSN replacement for the Swiftsure class, with an option for a further two. The fourth boat was ordered in 2007, with boats number 5 and 6 being authorised in April 2010. Eight boats were the official target until 2008; now the MOD officially plans to acquire seven Astute-class submarines: it remains to be seen if this target will be maintained and reached despite the high demands on defence spending. The Defence Industrial Strategy states that a 24 month build drumbeat is needed to maintain the long-term viability of the nuclear submarine building business in the UK.[2]

However, under the Strategic Defence Review, the Astute-class boats, which are larger and quieter than the existing SSNs, will replace five unmodernised Swiftsure- and Trafalgar-class submarines. S&TUFP will see the remaining boats of the Trafalgar class upgraded, giving them similar combat capabilities to the Astute class.[citation needed]

In the 2010 Strategic Defence and Security Review, the UK Government reaffirmed its intention to procure 7 Astute'- class submarines.

Fleet Air Arm

The aircraft carrier's major instrument of power projection is the carrier air group. The larger the air group, the more tasks it can perform. The Invincible class, because of its small size, has only a limited capacity, and is only capable of operating STOVL aircraft, the Harrier GR7/GR9. In 2006 the Sea Harrier was withdrawn from service. This saw the front line Sea Harrier squadron of the Fleet Air Arm converting to the Harrier GR9, as part of the evolution of the Joint Force Harrier concept. The Harrier's eventual replacement in both the RAF and the FAA is the F-35 Lightning II Joint Combat Aircraft. The F-35 will be a significant improvement over the Harrier, in terms of speed, range and weapon load. The UK had plans to order 138 F-35Bs for the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force. The financial crisis led to the decision taken in the Strategic Defence and Security Review to immediately withdraw the Harrier GR9 force in late 2010 along with HMS Ark Royal, to reduce the total number of F-35s planned for purchase by the UK, and to purchase the F-35C CATOBAR version rather than the STOVL F-35B. This will tie in with the decision to build HMS Queen Elizabeth in a CATOBAR configuration. However, it will also mean that the Fleet Air Arm will not operate fixed wing aircraft at sea for up to ten years.

The anti-surface/anti-submarine mission remains the purview of rotary aircraft; in small ships this is the updated Mk8 version of the Lynx. The Future Lynx program has seen 28 of the new helicopters, baptized the AW159 Wildcat Lynx, ordered for the Royal Navy.[4] However, in the carriers and in later frigates, the larger Merlin helicopter is used - this has replaced the Sea King in the ASW mission. There are 44 Merlin helicopters in service, and an upgrade plan to increase their flexibility of use is planned. The Sea King HC4 remains in the commando assault mission from HMS Ocean. In late 2009 it was announced that the Fleet Air Arm would lose its remaining Sea King helicopters, their place being taken by Merlins transferred from the RAF.[citation needed]

Merlin is also being touted as a replacement for Sea King ASaC7 in the Maritime Airborne Surveillance and Control (formerly Airborne Early Warning) mission, carrying the same Cerberus radar suite. However, the limitations of using a helicopter in this role are well documented - endurance is limited, service ceiling is low and vibrations from the rotors may cause distortion. Therefore, two other concepts have been put forward: a MASC version of the V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft and the acquisition of the American E-2 Hawkeye embarked AEW aircraft.

The V-22 was seen an attractive option for the original STOVL configuration of CVF. It combined the VTOL aspects of a helicopter with the endurance of a fixed wing aircraft. The E-2 is already in service with the French and US Navies. It has advantages over the V-22 again in terms of endurance and ceiling; because its cabin is pressurised, it can operate at greater altitude than the Merlin, extending the range of its radar.

The Strategic Defence and Security Review states that the Royal Navy will operate two types of helicopter in the future - the AW101 Merlin and the AW159 Wildcat.
 

Ray

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The RN has one fully operational aircraft carrier, HMS Ark Royal, which is to be immediately retired. The Navy's other carrier, HMS Illustrious, will continue to function as a helicopter platform stripped of jets before retiring in 2014.
 

Ray

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Admiral Kuznetsov carries Su-33.
 

pmaitra

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Russian fleet is very good in term of both tactics and weaponry systems..

British fleet is now remain as a coastal defense fleet, They have very advance frigates but very few..



I think Russian were there to say 'Hi ' !
Russia is far ahead of naval technology and experience.

Therefore, though I maybe wrong, but I don't think I am wrong, China is nowhere in naval designs of technology compared to Russia hence is a non starter in the competition with the Russian.

Russian weakness is in aircraft carriers.
I second these. While RN may have a few very advanced vessels, Russian Navy too has a lot of advanced vessels themselves, and taking both quality and quantity into account, Russian Navy is way more powerful than RN.

Now, in recent years, RN may have turned into shambles, but they have not lost their attitude, if you read one of the comments:
We didn't need to send any ships. It was a token display. We could have used one Tigerfish torpedo from a submarine out of Scotland if the Russian had showed any aggression. We are not stupid. And by the way - we are English so it's defence not defense (USA).- Alistair Hillier Manser, Sandbanks UK, 14/12/2011 16:28

Read more: HMS York scrambled to Scotland in Russian fleet security scare | Mail Online
 

Dovah

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We didn't need to send any ships. It was a token display. We could have used one Tigerfish torpedo from a submarine out of Scotland if the Russian had showed any aggression. We are not stupid. And by the way - we are English so it's defence not defense (USA).- Alistair Hillier Manser, Sandbanks UK, 14/12/2011 16:28
They might have sunk a boat or two, but their English pride wouldn't have saved them when the Russian tanks would have rolled into London.
 

ice berg

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Russia will never be No. 2 naval power again. That position is a give away to China.

Putin and his swagger will never rise above No. 3 (they could further slide down if India start asserting her naval might).
If you take the nuke subs out, then it should look like this:

1. USN
2. JSDF
3. China

I will place RN ahead of Russia any time.

RN may be in a bad shape, but Russia isnt much better either.
 

Dovah

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If you take the nuke subs out, then it should look like this:
Take out destroyers and Aircraft carriers while you're at it.
Russia has a lot of conventional subs too.
 

Dovah

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And they pose a threat to RN? If no, what is your point.
I was merely commenting on the omission of Submarines, an important component of a navy as a criteria for determining naval strength(post #33).

1. USN
2. JSDF
3. China

I will place RN ahead of Russia any time.
Numerically, the RN is half of the Russian Navy and isn't leaps ahead of the Russian navy in quality and technology either. You're naive if you think the Russian subs(nuclear or otherwise) aren't a threat for the RN. Remember Falklands?
 

Tolaha

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Or I can add a few brain cells to you so you dont go OT all the time.
oh chill, ice berg! 8)

You tell me... what sort of an idiot would exclude nuke subs while comparing navies? One of a kind, for sure!

Added later: ice berg has removed his offensive comment. I hope I didn't cost him his paycheck today! :taunt:
 
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ice berg

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I was merely commenting on the omission of Submarines, an important component of a navy as a criteria for determining naval strength(post #33).

Agree, but how does that translate to Russian subs? Only nuclear subs will be much use against RN. If they are sending conventional subs, they are gonna be cut to pieces.

Numerically, the RN is half of the Russian Navy and isn't leaps ahead of the Russian navy in quality and technology either. You're naive if you think the Russian subs(nuclear or otherwise) aren't a threat for the RN. Remember Falklands?
There is no doubt RN is ahead of Russian navy in quality. The Russian Navy doctrine has always based on numbers.
Quality wise, NATO is leaps ahead.
Despite the decline of RN, they still got a strong navy.
The falklands are different scenario.

RN only need to defend against Russian subs. For that, they are more than capable.
 

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