Russia-Pakistan Rapproachment

Discussion in 'International Politics' started by bhramos, Jun 2, 2014.

  1. bhramos

    bhramos Elite Member Elite Member

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    Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    [​IMG]

    MOSCOW – Russia has lifted an embargo on sales of weapons and military hardware to Pakistan and is planning to supply Islamabad with attack helicopters, said Sergei Chemezov, the chief executive officer of the Rostec, the state defence corporation of the country.

    “Such a decision was made. We are negotiating the sales of Mi-35 helicopters to Pakistan,” Chemezov said on Monday. A source with the Foreign Affairs Ministry in Islamabad told RIA Novosti news service that there had never been an embargo on Russian sales to Pakistan in the first place.

    It was rather that cooperation between Islamabad and Moscow was limited due to Russia’s intensive trade with India. Russia has been supplying its Mi-8 helicopters to Iran, among others. In 2012, the two countries struck a deal worth $4.3 billion for the export modification of Russia's nigh-time strike chopper Mig-28N, dubbed night hunter and for Mi-35 attack helicopters, a total of 40 aircraft.

    Russia may supply ‘night hunter’ to Pakistan
     
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  3. DEJAVU

    DEJAVU Regular Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Good to hear that.
    News from inside that senior Russian official will be visiting Pakistan soon.
     
  4. JBH22

    JBH22 Senior Member Senior Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Pakistan was more interested in Turkey's TAI/AgustaWestland T129. Any idea what happened?

    I believe Russia is selling hard its Mi-28 after India choose the Apache.

    However, it would make sense if Pakistan stick with the latest version of AH-1 Cobra
     
  5. ninja85

    ninja85 Regular Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    good to hear, that from now on pakibeggars will be dependent on russian parts.:rofl::laugh::lol:
     
  6. Voldemort

    Voldemort Senior Member Senior Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    How serious an effect will this have on Indo-Russian ties?
     
  7. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Russians value only for $$$. They are least concerned from where it originates.

    If at all, this deal gets finalised, Russians will face repercussions in terms of prospective arms export to India.
     
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  8. DEJAVU

    DEJAVU Regular Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    its not about Russian arms or begging, its all about defense ties that will be making in progress, will help in long term.
     
  9. DEJAVU

    DEJAVU Regular Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    As far as i know Pakistan is more serious in Mi-35, wants to developed ties and confidence with Russia, Turkey's T-129 is not gone yet and it will be a done deal no matter what has happened to Mi-35.
     
  10. DEJAVU

    DEJAVU Regular Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    I dont think that will Change Indian ties with Russia, India dont want to be dependent on USA for that it cant afford to show its repercussions against Russia. If india does then this will be the least Pakistan will be expecting from them and it will be good for Pakistan.
     
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  11. fyodor

    fyodor Regular Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Sooner or later this is gonna happen. That's why defence indigenousization is important
     
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  12. boris

    boris Regular Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    @Ray sir , what is your take on this issue?
     
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  13. AVERAGE INDIAN

    AVERAGE INDIAN EXORCIST Senior Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    American has supplied armed or sold weapons to Pakistan and currently some equipment to India, if i am am not wrong Brazil sold short range AA missiles to PAF others are Sweden, south Africa and Russia so what matter's is India needs to develop a robust defense industry as we all know its all about money and geopolitics no one is a enemy nor a friend. but Russian equipment is a money pit good luck for Pakistan
     
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  14. rock127

    rock127 Maulana Rockullah Senior Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Lets see when the deal "happens" but Pakis are celebrating already since they just wanna spend their trillions of overflowing $$$ reserves.

    So what exactly is Russia going to get back by lifting the embargo?

    • Russia trying to forget which reasons added to the division of mighty USSR and be friendly to a terrorist nation?
    • Russia is trying to be US of the 60's by supporting Pakis?
    • Is it just some $$$ they want? Are they so broke?
    • To push India to look to other countries for defense cooperation since they are not satisfied with the massive milking of Indian $$$? Greedy?
    • Russia looking to penetrate into Pakis defense so it can track and control and perhaps give hints to India about all the secrets?

    Any Russian expert here to explain? :hmm:

    Anyway we have Israel,US for the latest high tech defense products and in near future even Japan(Japanese tech is top class) would be assisting India and above all a hope in a massive home grown quality Defense infrastructure.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2014
  15. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Jo Bhi ha . Pakis koi na koi jugard laga lete ha
     
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  16. AVERAGE INDIAN

    AVERAGE INDIAN EXORCIST Senior Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Why is Russia lifting embargo on military supplies to Pakistan?

    Russia has just announced a hugely strategic decision that may alter the regional power matrix and bug India at a time when the just-installed Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi was looking to deepen ties with Moscow.

    Sergey Chemezov, head of Russian state-run technologies corporation Rostec, announced on Monday that Russia has lifted an embargo on supplying weapons and military hardware to Pakistan. He also said that Moscow is negotiating the delivery of several Mi-25 helicopter gunships to Islamabad. "The decision was taken and we are negotiating the delivery of helicopters," the Voice of Russia quoted Chemezov as saying.

    Why this move and why now?

    The Russian decision is indicative of a paradigm shift in Russian foreign policy, a kind of move which one sees once in several decades.

    Naturally, when a state takes such a decision it must not be without considering the pros and cons of the matter, the strategic takeaways and the possible pitfalls.

    Two compelling reasons for the Russian move may well be Afghanistan and the Russia-West spat over Ukraine.

    Like India and China, Russia too is waiting with bated breath the post-2014 Afghanistan as American/NATO are scheduled to pull out most of their troops from the land-locked country by this year end. The Taliban is in a resurgent mode. Everybody knows that during the Taliban rule (1996-2001), Afghanistan had become the most productive and flourishing factory of jihad in the world. Therefore, the withdrawal of American/NATO troops from Afghanistan by the end of 2014 may well turn the country into a tinder box again.

    While Russia would definitely not like this scenario, it can hardly change the situation and counter the new situation with a Plan B. Pakistan’s importance would increase enormously in the post-2014 situation in Afghanistan.

    Improving relations with Pakistan would give an important leverage to Russia in the post-2014 Afghanistan. If Russia and China do not want the loose canons of the Taliban to unleash themselves at them, then it is Pakistan and no one else that can make it happen.

    The Russian move may be far shrewder than one can think. It may well be indicative of a China-Russia-Pakistan (CRP) axis, largely because of flawed policies of the Obama administration.

    Russia and Pakistan have had a rather cold relationship, despite the latter’s sustained attempts over recent years to mend the ties. Reasons for the Russian coldness toward Pakistan are not difficult to see. It is the India factor. India clearly does not favor Russia cozying up to Pakistan and Russia could not have afforded to annoy the Indians. Why, after all, Russia should play a zero-sum game in South Asia when it is having the best of relations with India, a sworn enemy of Pakistan?

    That was the argument of most Russians who opposed the very idea of needling India, the largest importer of Russian weapons. But even this defense relationship received setbacks in the past two years as Russia lost out to other competitors like Israel, the United States and Europe on several big-ticket Indian defense deals.

    The India angle

    Let me begin the India angle in this context with two seemingly contradictory statements.

    One, the Russian decision of lifting its embargo on weapons supplies to Pakistan is a huge setback to India. Two, India and Russia will continue to do business together as both need each other immensely.

    It is highly unlikely that the Russian move would have come as a complete surprise to the Indians. New Delhi has been aware of formal consultations between Russia and Pakistan in the trilateral format on Afghanistan – the third country being China.

    It is quite possible that Moscow may have taken the Indians into its confidence on its upcoming policy change and put forth its strategic compulsions.

    Russia and India are working very closely in the Afghan theater and have embarked on a novel understanding wherein India pays for Russian arms supplied by Russia to Afghanistan for boosting Afghan armed forces’ capabilities. Is there a possibility that the Russians have taken a sort of ‘no-objection certificate’ from the Indians for their unprecedented outreach to Pakistan?

    One cannot rule out anything. Games such as these are often played on the strategic chessboards. What can be a bigger strategic chessboard than Afghanistan where all the top powers of the world are directly involved?

    Moreover, one should not expect an official statement from either Moscow or New Delhi on this issue. Games such as these are often played in the back alleys, far from the media glare.

    http://rt.com/op-edge/163116-russian-embargo-military-supplies-pakistan/
     
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  17. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    This is no surprise except for indians still stuck in the cold war.
     
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  18. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    This is no surprise after India, under the MMS government, bent over backwards to pick the Chinook over the Mil-26T2 as a heavy lift helicopter. How the Chinook fits the bill, no one knows. It does not even meet the payload requirements. That certainly indicates that India favoured the US, over Russia, not on merit, but due to political reasons.

    India was, however, right in picking AH-64D over Mi-28N.
     
  19. Pandora

    Pandora Regular Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Well if Su 35 can fly in China then why not Mi 28 in pakistan...But the question is, are they? If Russia choose to arm Pakistan, then they must be ready to brace cancellation of MTR and Pak FA(Both facing IAF criticism) . Thats more than 40Billion$ dollars in stake.We can also see India might ask for help from Ukraine for upgrading T 90 which I prefer even now.
     
  20. AVERAGE INDIAN

    AVERAGE INDIAN EXORCIST Senior Member

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    Russia and Pakistan New Equation old article but has some good points

    The conclusion of the 8th meeting of Russia-Pakistan Consultative Group on Strategic Stability, held in Islamabad in April 20131, marks the culmination of a series of high profile engagements between the two countries. In the last one and a half years alone, the two sides have witnessed a flurry of high profile bilateral visits that has included Russia’s Chief of Ground Forces, Chief of Air Force, Special Envoy to Afghanistan and the Foreign Minister visiting Islamabad. Similarly, from the Pakistani side, Air Force Chief Tahir Rafique Butt, Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar and Chief of Army Gen. Kayani have all visited Moscow.

    For Russia, which has a ‘privileged’ and ‘special’ relationship with India, the increased engagement does raise a few questions. First, what are the driving factors behind Russia current engagement strategy with Pakistan? Second, what are the prospects of this new growing equation? And third, should India be concerned?

    The recent traction between Russia and Pakistan seems to be essentially based on ‘economics of trade and energy’2 and the need for stability in South and Central Asia, especially in Afghanistan. However, a closer analysis shows an interesting interplay of several geopolitical factors.

    Developments in Afghanistan are a key objective of Russia’s increased engagement with Pakistan. There exists tremendous uncertainty in the event of a post-2014 withdrawal of US and NATO troops. The fact that there will be a new government in Kabul coupled with Hamid Karzai’s political overtures to Taliban has raised the spectre of uncertainty ahead. Emergence of a power vacuum and a protracted civil war is a distinct possibility. There also exists serious apprehensions about the capabilities of Afghan armed forces in tackling crime while opium production and drug trafficking continues to go on unabated.3 Russia has been concerned of any turmoil spreading to its ‘near abroad’. More importantly, terrorism emanating from Pakistan and Afghanistan has the potential of inspiring radical Islamists and flaming violence in Russia’s own restive northern Caucasian territories. There is a growing realization that Pakistan holds one of the key levers of bringing stability to the region and it will thus be unwise to ignore it.4 With a new government in power in Islamabad, it becomes imperative to open new lines of communication. Therefore, Russia’s cautious yet steady engagement with Pakistan can be seen in the context of finding a common ground on issues which have ramifications for the whole Eurasian region.

    So concerned is Russia about the evolving Afghan situation that President Putin has declared it to be a ‘matter of direct concern for our national security’.5 Russia’s Afghan policy had drawn President Karzai to visit Moscow in 2011, which was seen as a watershed event. The two countries have a technical-military agreement and Russia has continued to train and provide weapons to Afghan civilian, military and police specialists, apart from upgrading Soviet era infrastructure.6 It has also rendered an alternative supply route (Northern Distribution Network) to NATO forces while President Putin has time and again called for greater coordination between CSTO and NATO. He also signed on the law which will extend Russia’s military base in Tajikistan. This will see Russia’s 201st division continue with its deployment on the Tajik border with Afghanistan. Tajikistan shares an approximately 1,300 kilometre long border with the war ravaged country.

    Russia’s growing Pakistan engagement can also be seen within the broader context of Putin’s Eurasian Union project, Russia’s multi-vectored foreign policy and its desire to play a more prominent role in Eurasia. Closer relationship to Pakistan has taken place in the backdrop of deteriorating Pakistan-American ties. Russia is apprehensive about the US initiative of the ‘New Silk Route’ and the possible long term deployment of Western troops in the region. This can be interpreted as an attempt to limit Russia’s ‘privileged’ position in it’s ‘near abroad’. Pakistan’s geo-strategic position at the juncture of South, Central and West Asia and its potential in undermining any American design aimed at reducing Russia’s influence may have facilitated this change of policy.

    Moreover, at a time when China too has stepped up its engagement with both Afghanistan and Central Asian countries, a Russian initiated SCO mechanism, by involving all the key regional actors, in playing a constructive role in the Afghan crisis can help reinstate Russia’s importance to the organisation. This can be one of the reasons why Russia supported Pakistan’s candidature for the SCO.

    Russia’s decision to participate in the creation of energy and transport corridors in the Eurasian region has far reaching geopolitical implications. The Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) pipeline, Iran-Pakistan pipeline and Central Asia-South Asia (CASA-1000) electricity project can fundamentally alter the energy requirements of the energy deficient states. It also blends in with the concept of an energy club of the SCO; first championed by President Putin.

    The rail-road transport corridor from Tajikistan to Pakistan, cutting across the Wakhan sector, will ensure Russia and Central Asian countries getting an access to the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean through the Gwadar port, with Pakistan getting access to Russian and Central Asian markets.7 If this corridor is linked up with the Karakoram highway, China too becomes a part of this sector.8 Chinese companies already have a major footprint in this corridor by virtue of their operational control over the Gwadar port. The bigger picture can involve limiting the growing American presence and influence in Eurasia.

    This brings into question the implications of this engagement for India. Russia and India share a time tested relationship that is unlikely to be affected by these overtures. Moreover, India’s perceived foreign policy drift towards the West and its recent preference for western weapons over Russian ones does not give it much leeway to influence Russia’s policy towards Pakistan, more so when India itself is subtly trying to improve ties with its neighbour. However, there is a realization that the current Russia-Pakistan engagement has got to do more with Afghanistan than be at the cost of Russia’s strategic partnership with India.9 The size of India’s weapons market, capability to pay in hard currency and Russia’s own special and privileged position with India is something which Pakistan can never match. Pakistan may also be using the ‘Russia card’ as a bargaining chip to show the US that it has other options. Military exports to Pakistan from Russia, if and when they happen, will not change the power equation in the subcontinent.

    http://idsa.in/idsacomments/RussiaandPakistanNewEquation_rroy_040613
     
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  21. kseeker

    kseeker Retired

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    re: Russia may supply MI-35 to Pakistan

    That will certainly change the equation! For Russia, India is one of their major arms importer. I am not saying that, India will stop buying Russian machines however, orders will take a hit.

    All the best.
     

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