Russia during the early 20th century

Discussion in 'Europe and Russia' started by Razor, Oct 23, 2014.

  1. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    You are right. But then Lenin was funded by Germany (and others) for his revolution (the aim being to disintegrate the Russian Empire, in line with the ideas of Prometheism).
    So jouni's point still holds.

    [HR][/HR]

    MOD Edit:

    Since this is the first post, I am adding an advisory.

    The discussion can be a bit broad, however, this thread is not for trolling. No posting pictures of a man, a dog, or a man and a dog; no talking about facial hair; no making unsupported claims more than once. These are examples, and not exhaustive.
     
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  3. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Thank you, and I have learnt something today. Lenin was also allegedly funded by the Brits, but I am not sure how far that is true. Lenin lived in Britain for a long time. London can be called the incubation chamber for the Bolshevik Revolution.
     
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  4. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    It was Stalin, the Georgian, who converted SU from a peasant country, into an industrial nation and it was the same Stalin who made SU strong, counter to the ideas and longings of the guys running the show in the West. This is the reason why he receives such bad press. A lot of the statistics associated with "the millions Stalin killed" are based on extrapolation (not trying to justify anything)
    Anyway I guess that's for another thread. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  5. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Stalin started a good job, but he did not finish it. He sent a lot of these Ukro-Nazis to the firing squads. The west, as usual, is unhappy that he killed these Nazis.

    The west dislikes Putin, because, he put an end to corruption, widespread money laundering, fraud, and appropriation of state assets, because, all these corrupt people were siphoning off wealth stolen from Russia to the west, and shutting down profitable Russian factories so as to flood the Russian market with western goods.

    When those Euro-Maidan thugs were tossing Molotov cocktails, setting people on fire, burning down buildings, the western leaders stood by them. Today, I don't see Putin standing by those gunmen who have entered the Canadian Parliament. Tells you which political leader is noble, and who are the conceited.
     
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  6. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Not just those things mentioned, but also to finance revolutions in Russia's neighbors and within. Again in line with ideas of Prometheism.

    For example: Boris Berezovsky: Orange revolution, Chechen conflicts (it is interesting to note that most of these Oligarchs are jews, they seem to work in gangs)
    There was that fake revolution known as "Orange Revolution" which started winter, 8 years before the Euro-maidan events. Pretty early on former president of Ukr Leonid Kravchuk had accused Boris Berezovsky of funding the revolution. Later Berezovsky himself admitted he had funded the Orange Revolution (link here) from his London refuge.

    Well, sorry about that.
    It's my fault. Maybe @pmaitra can move the pertinent posts elsewhere.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  7. jouni

    jouni Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    It is one thing to have an independence, another to keep it. Germany saved Finland three times:

    1. 1918 with Baltic sea division to help crush the reds
    2. 1940 when Hitler did not allow Stalin "to settle Finland problem"
    3. 1944 when Hitler send arms and air power to help finnish army to stop Red Army strategic offensive meant to occupy Finland (attack started right after Normandy, as was promised to allies).

    Maybe you now understand why Finland's view towards also Third Reich differs so much from the rest of Europe.
     
  8. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Lenin was fueled by both Brits and Germans so they could destabilize Russia. In fact after Lenin came to power with the help of the Germans the first thing he did was to call for peace with Germany and Austria-Hungray. He even gave up land to the Germans.!!!! Thus Russia became the only "Allied" country to lose the WW I. Of course the Axis powers still lost to France,Britain and US alliance.

    Treaty of Brest-Litovsk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  9. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Stalin killed 20 million people. He was known to be biased towards his Georgia. Though I admit he can still qualify for DFI hero of the year. This was one of his outstanding achievements.
    Katyn massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Also Putin has been accused of being a money launderer himself. His mansion in Spain is a testimony to that.
     
  10. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    You are correct about 2 and 3. For the first point, please post your point of view, and how it is related to Lenin granting Finland its independence.
     
  11. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Can you prove this. And by that I mean have 20 million dead bodies been accounted for ?
    I would also like to know the methodology by which these bodies were accounted/counted etc.
    And please don't say this or that prominent/reputed organization did the counting/accounting please provide methodology.

    Let's keep this thread for the discussions on Early 20th century Russia, particularly the demise of Russi Empire and birth of SU and so on.
    I think you have started a thread on Putin elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
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  12. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Massacres have happened in Katyn, and in many other places, such as Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    Putin is accused of many things. If it snows too much in Poland, he will be accused for that as well. Putin has a mansion in Spain proves what? Given his paid salary, he can very much afford it. Your claim of "testimony" is naught.
     
  13. pmaitra

    pmaitra Moderator Moderator

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Yes, I agree. @Peter, please exercise your freedom of speech in your Putin bashing thread. Let us keep this thread on topic.
     
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  14. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany


    Well I have a GREAT DFI APPROVED SOURCE which talks of Stalin and his personal life. I think in the first or some other minutes of the video the GREATEST and MOST RELIABLE source in the universe -RT talks about Joseph Stalin and his atrocities.

    Do check out the entire video. I watched it completely before posting. Joseph Stalin it seems remained a mysterious man in life as well as death.



    In short for those who cannot watch the entire episode. Joseph Stalin`s OWN GRANDSON doe not want to RECOGNIZE his GRANDFATHER
    . He apparently has no kind words towards his DFI bestowed great grandfather Stalin.

    I agree.
     
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  15. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    I may watch the video later. I'm pretty sure there is nothing new in there that I don't know of.

    I asked simple question: What is the methodology used for counting/accounting for the so called 20 million victims. I am curious to know.
    You haven't answered the question. Instead you have used diversionary tactics (giant fonts, Stalin's grandson, sly remarks etc)

    And since you have ascertained that Stalin had killed 20 million, you should have taken the basic step of at least analyzing how such a figure was arrived at.
    I would like to know if you have asked that question to yourself and ever thought of finding out for yourself.
    If you have: good. You can easily answer my question without utilizing diversionary tactics.
    If else I'm afraid it shows prejudice.

    Next, I also requested you not to say stuff like this reputed source or that unbiased source (your favorite being Telegraph India) rather simply answer the question.

    Thanks once again.

    PS: Have to go now, will read your reply later.
     
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  16. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Learn to read before you quote. The figure was calculated by Stalin`s own countrymen mainly his successor Nikita Khrushchev. I do not know where I have used diversionary tactics. You ave not even watched the video. At one point Russian historians mention about his atrocities and how Stalin used to first imprison the wives of those who were disloyal to him. As I have said watch the video the rant and post.

    Nikita Khrushchev - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You are asking for evidence for the exact figure 20 million. Well I was not there to actually see if Stalin killed 20 million and 100 thousand people or if he had killed 19 million. However there are historians like a Georgian/ex USSR man who along with others who arrived at that figure.

     
  17. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    This is from wikiepdia


     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  18. Razor

    Razor CIDs from Tamilnadu Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    Learn to read before you quote.
    I don't give a fart if Stalin was cruel, ugly, fat or could fly.
    What methods were used to estimate the dead.
    Why is it so difficult for you to give a straight answer.

    Here's my earlier post.
    You still haven't answered the question.

    You don't have to be present. That is why they invented writing so that information can be transmitted through generations.
    These "historians" who "arrived" at these figures: Did they pull it out of their ass.
    They used some technique, right ?
    What is it ?

    I am going to assume that you have never bothered to actually find out the methods used for accounting and calculating the dead bodies at a gravesight . You just accepted data that were fed to you.
    The answer must be out there somewhere.

    PS: Okay now I really have to go. Please keep cool and answer patiently. Later
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  19. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    Re: Knowing Germany

    I do know how to read. Apparently you cannot. You are asking for the methodology. What methodology do you really want?Y ou actually want the historians to be present when Stalin`s victims were dying even though you claim that you do not want so. :lol:
    No one has invented a time machine so we cannot be present in Stalin`s gulags. As for gravestones and official records here`s a thing. Stalin destroyed all official records of deaths. Also are prisoners given a proper burial???



    This is from Russiapedia-RT

    Stalin's Purges – Russiapedia Of Russian origin

     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
  20. asianobserve

    asianobserve Elite Member Elite Member

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    This is a broad topic. In terms of politics, the early 20th century can be summed up in the following succession of rulers:

    1. Tsar Nicholas II, who abdicated on March 15, 1917;
    2. Georgy Lvov, Russian Provisional Government;
    3. Vladimir Lenin, established Soviet Russia;
    4. Josef Stalin, Succeeded Lenin and instituted his own brand of rule known as Stalinism.
     
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  21. Peter

    Peter Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Razor. Your great Stalin destroyed most of the official records. I wonder why he did so???

    However the few official records that survived give a figure of 3 million in certain categories. We already know in India the difference between "official" death tolls and actual death tolls.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015

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