RFP issued for India navy amphibious vessels (LHD or LPD type)

Prometheus

New Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
400
Likes
344
IDK... just a thought. Indian RFP's are generally very conservative and modest to begin with. And considering the price they quoted, I dont really think 4X 40, 000 tonnes will be that cheap
 
Last edited:

Punya Pratap

New Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
474
Likes
361
Country flag
I wonder whether the 40 K is really practical knowing that LHD/LPD will be an offensive platform that will be required to get up close and dangerous with the coastal defenses including all the three components -Air/Land and Naval.

I would have thought a fast and lighter platform capable of quick injections of troops and materials that can get out as fast of the hot situations will be the practical choice.... unless IN is envisioning these LHD/LPD's in Juan Carlos league that acts like autonomous unit with a very strong Air wing to defend and extend its aerial cover on the insertion. I think 40 k LHD/LPD will be more like an Aircraft + Troop Carrier...... If that is so than I m all for it!! A New definition and a new concept envisioned by IN if they really go for it !! AIRCRAFT & TROOP CARRIER that will checkmate the Chinese String of Pearls!!

The WASP/AMERICA class of US Navy is in the same league (41-45 K's) when it comes displacements and America Class is designed to carry the F 35...something I would nt mind if IN decides to replicate with their own 4 LHD/LPD !!! So 4 America Class equivalent LHD/LPD + 4 AC and hopefully 4 SSN + 6 SSBN in a combined strength of 24 subs will make Indian Navy the Lords of IOR!! :thumb:

Err and strengthen INS Baaz and INA Dweeprakash into full fledged and strong IN bases with a squadron of MKI's & NLCA + 3 Poseidons each along with Subs Frigates & Destroyers !! Best and most effective way of countering the Chinese String of Pearls ;)
 
Last edited:

arnabmit

Homo Communis Indus
New Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
6,245
Likes
7,531
Country flag
I wonder whether the 40 K is really practical knowing that LHD/LPD will be an offensive platform that will be required to get up close and dangerous with the coastal defenses including all the three components -Air/Land and Naval.

I would have thought a fast and lighter platform capable of quick injections of troops and materials that can get out as fast of the hot situations will be the practical choice.... unless IN is envisioning these LHD/LPD's in Juan Carlos league that acts like autonomous unit with a very strong Air wing to defend and extend its aerial cover on the insertion. I think 40 k LHD/LPD will be more like an Aircraft + Troop Carrier...... If that is so than I m all for it!! A New definition and a new concept envisioned by IN if they really go for it !! AIRCRAFT & TROOP CARRIER that will checkmate the Chinese String of Pearls!!

The WASP/AMERICA class of US Navy is in the same league (41-45 K's) when it comes displacements and America Class is designed to carry the F 35...something I would nt mind if IN decides to replicate with their own 4 LHD/LPD !!! So 4 America Class equivalent LHD/LPD + 4 AC and hopefully 4 SSN + 6 SSBN in a combined strength of 24 subs will make Indian Navy the Lords of IOR!! :thumb:

Err and strengthen INS Baaz and INA Dweeprakash into full fledged and strong IN bases with a squadron of MKI's & NLCA + 3 Poseidons each along with Subs Frigates & Destroyers !! Best and most effective way of countering the Chinese String of Pearls ;)
Some issues with your narrative. LHD/LPDs do not come within the maritime boundary of the coast. It stays outside while deploying landing crafts and troop helos under the protection of attack helos.
 

Punya Pratap

New Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2013
Messages
474
Likes
361
Country flag
Some issues with your narrative. LHD/LPDs do not come within the maritime boundary of the coast. It stays outside while deploying landing crafts and troop helos under the protection of attack helos.
Sorry if my narrative was over enthusiastic... LHD/LPD shall be operating CLOSE to the heavily defended coastal regions of the enemy hence I suggest a potent Air arm for our LHD/LPD !
I would nt mind even an F 35 ;)
 

arnabmit

Homo Communis Indus
New Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
6,245
Likes
7,531
Country flag
F-35B is a lemon. Too pricy. Hardly any capability. Not available before 2035.

Sorry if my narrative was over enthusiastic... LHD/LPD shall be operating CLOSE to the heavily defended coastal regions of the enemy hence I suggest a potent Air arm for our LHD/LPD !
I would nt mind even an F 35 ;)
 

Lions Of Punjab

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
652
Likes
926
Country flag
India to ramp up amphibious capabilities with four warships

INDIA TO RAMP UP AMPHIBIOUS CAPABILITIES WITH FOUR WARSHIPS

New Delhi: India is on its way to indigenously build four warships, which will be the biggest-ever made in the country other than the under-construction 40,000 tonne sea-borne aircraft carrier the INS Vikrant. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) had re-issued a request for proposal (RFP) to Indian private sector shipyards in September to build four amphibious assault ships, also called the Landing Platform Docks (LPD) in naval parlance. Each of these will approximately cost Rs 6,000 crore and are expected to deliver over the next 10 years.

Each of these ships will be anything between 35,000 and 40,000 tonnes. The Indian shipyards have been asked to locate their own foreign collaborator. "The bids have come in," a source in the Navy said. The RFP was sent to ABG, Larsen & Toubro (L&T), and Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering.

The successful private shipyard and its foreign collaborator will be given order for two such ships and the two others will be made by the MoD-owned Hindustan Shipyard Limited, Visakhapatnam, at the same price being paid to the private builder.

This signals an important change in the long-term strategic plan as this will be huge jump over the existing capability of launching offensive sea-borne. The LPDs are essentially the first step towards increasing capability to launch "out-of-country operations".

The LPDs are essentially a modern-day sea-based version of the Roman epic "Trojan horse". Each carries, in its huge lower deck, hundreds of Indian Army troops with tanks, vehicles and cargo. Such a ship can deliver men and equipment near a sea beach and does not need a berthing dock, hence providing the option for landing thousands of troops near a spot chosen to attack.

The size of the LPDs indicates the Indian Navy's growing amphibious warfare capacity. As of now, the biggest such variety of vessel is INS Jalashwa, a 16,900 tonne ship. Another five warships classified as Landing ship tank large (LST-L) are some 5,600 tonnes each, another four ships are just 1,100 tonnes and lastly the smallest are 650 tonnes and six of these are in service.

Forces that move across sea are referred to as "amphibious task force". At present, India has the capability to move a Brigade, some 5,000 men, using the lone LPD, INS Jalashwa, along with a fleet of five smaller 5,600-tonne (LST-Ls) each of which can carry 10 tanks, 11 combat trucks and 500 troops.

Each of the new LPDs will have three times the capacity and have multi-role helicopters, including heavy lift helicopters to provide even greater flexibility.

Foreign shipbuilders offering such ships include DCNS of France, Germany's ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, Fincantieri of Italy, South Korea's Hanjin Heavy Industries & Constructions Co and Navantia of Spain.

India has sought a vessel of 213 metre, endurance at sea for 45 days, the vessel must be able to house combat vehicles (including main battle tanks, infantry combat vehicles and heavy trucks on one or more vehicle deck), and the vessel should be able to undertake all-weather operations involving heavy lift helicopters of up to 35 tonne.
 

AbhishekDas

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
29
Likes
3
40,000 tonnes LPD doesn't exist as of today, Indian Navy should go for either French Mistral or US San Antonio class LPD, these two ships are the best LPD in the world now & matches all criteria of Indian Navy's Multi-Role Support Vessel Programme except the increased tonnange to 40,000 tonnes, it is the displacement of our Indigenous Aircraft Carrier-1 (IAC-1) INS Vikrant, so why we are going to waste money on a 40,000 tonnes LPD, it will be too big, a 21,000-28,000 tonnes LPD can well match our needs, India should go for this size.
 

rohit b3

New Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2012
Messages
821
Likes
1,407
Country flag
40,000 tonnes LPD doesn't exist as of today, Indian Navy should go for either French Mistral or US San Antonio class LPD, these two ships are the best LPD in the world now & matches all criteria of Indian Navy's Multi-Role Support Vessel Programme except the increased tonnange to 40,000 tonnes, it is the displacement of our Indigenous Aircraft Carrier-1 (IAC-1) INS Vikrant, so why we are going to waste money on a 40,000 tonnes LPD, it will be too big, a 21,000-28,000 tonnes LPD can well match our needs, India should go for this size.
Why always buy? Why not be the first to design/develop something?
 

uoftotaku

New Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2015
Messages
937
Likes
3,544
Country flag
Reading the DCNS Spokesperson's quotes it becomes clear exactly why so many Indian procurement projects get stuck in endless negotiations after downselect or L1 declaration. The MOD comes up with ridiculously specific and non-flexible requirements in needlessly complicated and convoluted RFP's and threatens to toss out any submission that doesn't EXACTLY conform to the exact line by line list. The vendor then has to come up with an (expensive) customized solution but always will then push in negotiations to retain their original unmodified off the shelf design thus resulting in deadlock.
 

avknight1408

New Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
1,099
Likes
5,014
Country flag
Is this project neccessary? The funds could be used elsewhere. The Navy is woefully short of helicopters. The navy launches 2-3 major ships every year but doesnt have helos to station on them. If they go ahead with this project then they will not have helos and will become like thailand navy . they have an aircraft carrier but no aircraft to land on it. If this apathy continues then we might even become like german army, who use broomsticks instead of machine guns.
 

kstriya

New Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2015
Messages
488
Likes
507
Country flag
Any update on the LHD LPD now that the Egyptians have the Russian mitral, where does Indian RFP stand..
 

syncro

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
126
Likes
131
Country flag
This is the new italian LHA... is the first of 3 new italian amphibius ships... 1 LHA + 2 LHD (the LHDs are similar, but short, long around 200 meters, the LHA is 244 meters long).

Construction starts in 2017 and the entry into service is scheduled in 2021
Dimension: 244 x 36 meters (30,000 tons), fly deck 230 x 36 meters, 2 external elevators 15x12 (max 40 tons)
Speed 25+ knots, Crew: 460 + 604 troops
Hangar 2200 m2 (max 40 tons), flush+garage 1750 m2, 1600 linear meters for veichles up 62 tons, fly deck 2700 m2 (max 40 tons).
32 VLS Sylver 50 for ASTER 15/30, tripack/quadpack CAMM-ER/CAMM AA missiles.
Long range rotaing EW radar AESA (500+ km), 4 fixed faces MFRA AESA radar in X e C bands with OTH.
3 OTO-Melara 76mm SR Strales/Vulcano as naval/CIWS gun.
3 remote KBA 25mm postations.
Active hull sonar + passive towed array sonar per ASW protection
Antitorpedo sistem with decoy and launchers for light torpedo.
10 F-35B + 12 medium helos (or 24 medium helos) with 9 spots, 2 milions liter JP-5 (aviation fuel).







Click pics for zoom
 
Last edited:

The enlightened

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
420
Likes
207
The spat over the Marines will very likely affect the chances of Italian submission. For a 40000 ton LHD, there is only one ship anyway.
 

syncro

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
126
Likes
131
Country flag
The indian media censored stuffs about the 2 italian marines (remember always that ur country media are under gov dictat... press in India is not 100% free).
For now the ball is the hands of the International Tribunal for the Law of the Sea (ITLOS) in Hamburg.
Diplomatic friction between Italy and India were always from '90, see the "coffee club" and other little things.
The case of Italian marines was fitted for political purposes and constituencies for the last elections in India.
The comportemento your idiot defense minister AK Antony in addition to the case AgustaWestland AW-101 is proof clearer.
If your reference for a 40,000 tons LHD is the LHA America you're way off :)
Moreover, the Indian Navy has also called Italy Intermarine for the tender for new Indians minesweepers. so the problem is relative.
 
Last edited:

The enlightened

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
420
Likes
207
I am not going to respond to the off-topic BS.

I was thinking more like Wasp class, but LHA-8 will do.
 

syncro

New Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
126
Likes
131
Country flag
Wasp or America have a sense if u have F-35B (or some old AV-8 Harrier or another VSTOL aircraft) and the ship is deployed for months, otherwise a pure LHD 20,000 tons ship like the Mistral is unbeatable.

America and Wasp class have a complement of 1050/1250 people, America class has 5 milions liter of JP-5 (aviation fuel) mainly for her AV-8 now (and F-35B in future... the Italian light carrier Cavour with 12 AV-8 and 12 medium helos with 1.5 milion liter of JP-5 (and relative weapons) has a endurance in combat for 20/30 days)... the Mistral class has a complement of 177 people... India (as Italy or Japan) have 0 (ZERO) overseas deployment and 0 (ZERO) overseas territories and 0 (ZERO) overseas interests.

India navy have the logistic chain for support the landing of 2000 men from a 40,000 ton LHD?

For India, Italy, Japan the on board naval aviation is mainly for fleet protection... India have the big problem that dont have VSTOL as F-35B so the minimum size of a carrier is around 40,000 tons, but that its all.

If India have access to the F-35B probable the best solution is a fleet of 4-5 LHA/LHD 30,000 ton (40-50 F-35B on board) double use similar to italian LHA + the 2 already build carriers... or a fleet of 3 carrier 40,000/60,000 tons and 3-4 LHD/LPD around 20,000/25,000 tons... there are no space for 40,000 tons LHD.
 
Last edited:

The enlightened

New Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2012
Messages
420
Likes
207
Wasp or America have a sense if u have F-35B (or some old AV-8 Harrier or another VSTOL aircraft) and the ship is deployed for months, otherwise a pure LHD 20,000 tons ship like the Mistral is unbeatable.

America and Wasp class have a complement of 1050/1250 people, America class has 5 milions liter of JP-5 (aviation fuel) mainly for her AV-8 now (and F-35B in future... the Italian light carrier Cavour with 12 AV-8 and 12 medium helos with 1.5 milion liter of JP-5 (and relative weapons) has a endurance in combat for 20/30 days)... the Mistral class has a complement of 177 people... India (as Italy or Japan) have 0 (ZERO) overseas deployment and 0 (ZERO) overseas territories and 0 (ZERO) overseas interests.

India navy have the logistic chain for support the landing of 2000 men from a 40,000 ton LHD?

For India, Italy, Japan the on board naval aviation is mainly for fleet protection... India have the big problem that dont have VSTOL as F-35B so the minimum size of a carrier is around 40,000 tons, but that its all.

If India have access to the F-35B probable the best solution is a fleet of 4-5 LHA/LHD 30,000 ton (40-50 F-35B on board) double use similar to italian LHA + the 2 already build carriers... or a fleet of 3 carrier 40,000/60,000 tons and 3-4 LHD/LPD around 20,000/25,000 tons... there are no space for 40,000 tons LHD.
40000 tons is specified in Naval RFP, not my wishlist. I too don't understand the rationale behind it, but that's what it is. LHA-6 aka USS America is automatically DQ'ed since it doesn't have a well deck. I was talking about LHA-8 which will.

India does have A&N Islands as well as Lakshwadeep. We are the official guarantors of Maldives and Mauritius's security. I don't think we will get F-35 because we would open ourselves to American politicking and CISMOA, but what do I know. This is a purchase keeping in mind the next 30 years so it can't be dismissed on the basis of present realities.

PS: India still operates British Sea Harriers.
 

Dark Soul

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Oct 4, 2015
Messages
176
Likes
90
for me, best ship for Indian Navy is.....

even Australian Navy is buying this babies ;)
 

Articles

Top