Rasgulla: A Bengali creation claimed by Odiyas

[Peter]

Sweet nothings
- The geographical identification of rasgullas with any particular state would not make them taste less, or more, divine

A bitter war is being waged over a sweet. Dragging Bengali pride to the pits, Odias are claiming that the legendary rasgulla originated in Odisha, not in Bengal. The Odisha government wants to get a Geographical Indication tag for the rasgulla. The GI label would fix Odisha's Pahala as the place of origin for the rasgulla. This means that Bengalis would no longer be able to boast of having invented the rasgulla, which, Bengalis strongly believe, is a delicacy synonymous with Bengal in the wider world. The turn of events is no doubt cruel for Bengalis, coming as it does at a juncture when therasgulla is all set to cross the known boundaries of its fandom to include outer space. Desiccated rasgullas feature in the menu of India's first manned mission to be launched by the Indian Space Research Organization some time in the near future. The outrage is on another front too. The rasgulla industry is the only one that has thrived in Bengal when most others have dried up. If the Odisha government gets to claim the sweetmeat, then West Bengal has to give up on the possibility of ever having a rasgulla hub, on the lines of a " lyangcha hub", which Bengal's chief minister had recently projected as a potentially lucrative industry for the state.

However, what is at stake here is not just Bengal's honour and hope of resurgence. The Odisha government is encouraging division - as opposed to integration, which the soothing taste of rasgulla should inspire - by asking for the sweet to be identified exclusively with Odisha. The potentially self-defeating nature of the government's mission is revealed when a simple fact is contemplated. The Odisha government is pitching Pahala as the rasgulla's cradle of birth on the basis of myths and literature. But as popular as the Pahala rasgullas in Odisha are the Bikali Kar rasgullas, which originated in Salepur, in the hands of the confectioner called Bikalananda Kar. The Pahala and the Bikali rasgullas are very different even if they belong to the same state. Who can say with certainty that the Pahala rasgullas are more authentic than the Bikali ones? The GI tag also means that all attributes accrued by a product are to be traced back to the place of its origin. Would the residents of Salepur not feel neglected if all the divine goodness of the rasgulla gets credited to Pahala? Thinking of things from a larger perspective is conducive to the dissolution of trivial differences. Imagine the Indian astronauts in outer space munching on dried rasgullas: the taste of home that may make them tearful with nostalgia would be the taste of just India, rather than that of Odisha or Bengal. So why not make the GI tag for the rasgulla simply read 'India', in a proud assertion of national, rather than regional, identity?

In Satyajit Ray's movie, Goopy Gyne Bagha Byne, rasgullas and other mouth-watering sweetmeats rain on oppressed, hungry soldiers, to end all wars. Those rasgullas had no GI label, but they tasted as sweet as peace.


http://www.telegraphindia.com/1150808/jsp/opinion/story_35945.jsp#.Vcoe5Saqqko'

 

[Peter]

The above article quite aptly explains both the situation and the remedy for the misunderstanding between the two states.

 

[gslv]

Kya bakchodi hai. i belong to Odisha and indeed many Odias do not like bengalis and think they are pretentious pricks and full of women who are ready to fight at the drop of pin . For rest it doesnt matter , Come to nayagada and have a chena poda after enquiring about the best hotel , or a chena jhilli , for me i like rasmalei is best.

 

[Kharavela]

Charyapada, is one of the famous pre-1400 Bengali works.(10th-12th century AD)

Again the same tendency of claiming someone else's property as your own.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oriya/Origins

Quotes from the link:
Old Oriya (7th century-1200): The origin of the Oriya literature can be traced to "Bauddha Gana O Doha", otherwise known as Charyapada[3] written by the Buddhist Siddhas of Orissa.[4] The Oriya language begins to appear in inscriptions with Oriya scripts in temples, copper plates, palm-leaf manuscripts etc. Traces of Oriya words and expressions have been found in inscriptions dating from the 7th century AD. For example, the Oriya word କୁମ୍ଭାର /kumbha:rɔ/ ‘potter’ occurs in a copperplate inscription ‘belonging to a date not later than the 7th century AD’. Similarly, in inscriptions of 991 AD, Oriya words like ଭିତୁରୁ /bhituru/ ‘from inside’ and ପନ୍ଦର /pɔndɔrɔ/ ‘fifteen’ can be found. ‘An Oriya script|Oriya Passage’ also has been found in another inscription of about 715 AD.

Charyapada of 8th Century and its affinity with Oriya language
The beginnings of Oriya poetry coincide with the development of Charya Sahitya, the literature thus started by Mahayana Buddhist poets. This literature was written in a specific metaphor named “Sandhya Bhasha” and the poets like Luipa, Kanhupa are from the territory of Orissa. The language of Charya was considered as Prakrita.

Paduma (Padma:Lotus), Chowshathi (64), Pakhudi (petals) Tahin (There), Chadhi (rise) nachao (to dance) Dombi (a female of Orissa from untouchable caste), Bapudi (a very colloquial Oriya language to apply as 'poor fellow').

 

[Kharavela]

(Shashanka btw conquered your Bhubhaneswar or bhubaneshwa)

The modern city of Bhubaneswar was designed by the German architect Otto Königsberger in 1946. Along with Jamshedpur and Chandigarh, it was one of modern India's first planned cities.

There was no City or Town in Odisha in the name of Bhubaneswar prior to 1946. So what did your Shashanka captured ? Babaji ka Thullu ??

 

[pmaitra]

Again the same tendency of claiming someone else's property as your own.
https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Oriya/Origins

I don't think he is claiming someone else's property as his own.

Charyapada is not the exclusive property of the present day Oriya speaking people. Had it been so, then you could have claimed his claiming someone's else property. Bengali was born out of Abahatta (and Sanskrit), so Bengali can claim something that belongs to Abahatta. Bengali was not born out of Oriya.

The Charyapada is a collection of mystical poems, songs of realization in the Vajrayana tradition of Buddhism. It was written in an Abahatta that was the common ancestor of Bengali, Assamese, Maithili and Odia between the 8th and 12th centuries and it is said to be the oldest collection of verses written in those languages. A palm-leaf manuscript of the Charyapada was rediscovered in the early 20th century by Haraprasad Shastri at the Nepal Royal Court Library.[1] The Charyapada was also preserved in the Tibetan Buddhist canon.[2]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charyapada

Secondly, the Charaypada was not written in Oriya. It was written in Abahatta.

Abahatta (Prakrit: abasatta, Bengali: অবহট্‌ঠ ôbôhôtthô, ultimately from Sanskrit apaśabda;[1] "meaningless sound") is a stage in the evolution of the Eastern group of Indo-Aryan languages. The eastern group consists of languages such as Bengali, Maithili and Oriya.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abahatta

Abahatta is not Oriya. Abahatta is the progenitor of Oriya, just like it is the progenitor of Bengali. The Abahatta language is essentially a Magadhi language, and has its origins in present day Bihar, and perhaps parts of Jharkhand.

 

[Kharavela]

Bengal had more than two dynasties. Here are some of the dynasties:-

1)Poundra kingdom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pundra_Kingdom)

Just look to the right of the page whose link you have provided. It clearly shows, discounting the Vedic Age, Vanga / Bengal was ruled by 3 dynasties: 1) Pala 2) Chandra & 3) Sena.
I've mentioned 1 & 3 out of my memory.

 

[pmaitra]

The modern city of Bhubaneswar was designed by the German architect Otto Königsberger in 1946. Along with Jamshedpur and Chandigarh, it was one of modern India's first planned cities.

There was no City or Town in Odisha in the name of Bhubaneswar prior to 1946. So what did your Shashanka captured ? Babaji ka Thullu ??

I think he was referring to this.

Bhubaneswar /ˌbʊvəˈneɪʃwər/, also spelt Bhubaneshwar Bhubanēswara; pronunciation (help·info)), is the capital of the Indian state of Odisha, formerly known as Orissa. The city has a history of over 3,000 years starting with the Mahamegha-bahana Chedi dynasty (around the 2nd century BCE) which had its capital at Sisupalgarh, nearby.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhubaneswar

 

[Kharavela]

I don't think he is claiming someone else's property as his own.

Charyapada is not the exclusive property of the present day Oriya speaking people. Had it been so, then you could have his of claiming someone's else property. Bengali was born out of Abahatta (and Sanskrit), so Bengali can claim something that belongs to Abahatta. Bengali was not born out of Oriya.


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charyapada

Secondly, the Charaypada was not written in Oriya. It was written in Abahatta.


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abahatta

Abahatta is not Oriya. Abahatta is the progenitor of Oriya, just like it is the progenitor of Bengali. The Abahatta language is essentially a Magadhi language, and has its origins in present day Bihar, and perhaps parts of Jharkhand.

Request you to read the link I've given.
Charyapada of 8th Century and its affinity with Oriya language
The beginnings of Oriya poetry coincide with the development of Charya Sahitya, the literature thus started by Mahayana Buddhist poets. This literature was written in a specific metaphor named “Sandhya Bhasha” and the poets like Luipa, Kanhupa are from the territory of Orissa. The language of Charya was considered as Prakrita.

Paduma (Padma:Lotus), Chowshathi (64), Pakhudi (petals) Tahin (There), Chadhi (rise) nachao (to dance) Dombi (a female of Orissa from untouchable caste), Bapudi (a very colloquial Oriya language to apply as 'poor fellow').

I never claim Bengali was born out of Odia.

 

[Kharavela]

I think he was referring to this.


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhubaneswar

Though Sisupalagarh is near modern city of Bhubaneswar, no king after Chedi dynasty has used it as their Capital. While Keshari dynasty used Jajpur, Bhouma, Ganga, Surya dynasties used Cuttack & later Puri as their capitals.

Hence no question of capturing Bhubaneswar.

 

[pmaitra]

Request you to read the link I've given.
Charyapada of 8th Century and its affinity with Oriya language
The beginnings of Oriya poetry coincide with the development of Charya Sahitya, the literature thus started by Mahayana Buddhist poets. This literature was written in a specific metaphor named “Sandhya Bhasha” and the poets like Luipa, Kanhupa are from the territory of Orissa. The language of Charya was considered as Prakrita.

Paduma (Padma:Lotus), Chowshathi (64), Pakhudi (petals) Tahin (There), Chadhi (rise) nachao (to dance) Dombi (a female of Orissa from untouchable caste), Bapudi (a very colloquial Oriya language to apply as 'poor fellow').

I never claim Bengali was born out of Odia.

No, you did not get me.

I am not denying Oriya's affinity with Charyapada. Of course, there is affinity, because Charyapada was written in Abahatta, and Oriya was born out of Abahatta. As a matter of fact, I do agree that Oriya has affinity with Charyapada.

I am objecting to you accusing @Peter of claiming someone else's property.

 

[pmaitra]

Though Sisupalagarh is near modern city of Bhubaneswar, no king after Chedi dynasty has used it as their Capital. While Keshari dynasty used Jajpur, Bhouma, Ganga, Surya dynasties used Cuttack & later Puri as their capitals.

Hence no question of capturing Bhubaneswar.

I have also heard that Kalingas defeated the Mauryas and forces Ashoka to give up violence and embrace Buddhism.

Whatever be the case, I have my doubts about Rasgulla being invented in 12 century or whatever is being claimed by the Odisha government. They are relying on a myth. The modern day Rasgulla cannot be made without the knowledge of cutting of milk, and the knowledge of cutting of milk came from the Portuguese. So either it was some different condiment that coincidentally had the name Rasgulla but was different from modern day Rasgulla, or it is just an attempt to take credit for some's else's invention.

In my opinion, such claims are no different from saying the Sun Temple of Konark was designed by the Bengalis. Konark Temple is a heritage of Odisha and such a masterpiece does not exist anywhere in Bengal. Similarly, Odishi is a dance that does not exist anywhere in Bengal. Oriyas have a lot of things to be proud of, but Rasgulla is not one of them. I see the actions of the Odisha government as trying to take credit for something that was invented elsewhere. It is wrong to take credit for someone's else creation, no matter which direction it goes to.

 

[Kharavela]

Sadly Chaitanyadev was murdered by a group of dim witted ,jealous and potbellied evil Oriya Puri Pandas.

He should have been killed before entering Utkal (the then Odisha Empire). You may ask "Why".

We lost our independence because of that Chaitanya. Only because of him we the people of Utkal lost our kingdom to invaders. Don't know what black magic he spelled on our Gajapati Pratap Rudra Dev, the Emperor became his disciple & became devoted to Sankirtana. Is that the duty of the King / Emperor ?

The King / Emperor has his primary duty to keep his kingdom / empire safe from foreign attacks or invaders. Gajapati Pratap Rudra Dev's grandfather Gajapati Kapilendra Dev fought valiantly & expanded the empire from Ganga to Kavery.

 

[Kharavela]

No, you did not get me.

I am not denying Oriya's affinity with Charyapada. Of course, there is affinity, because Charyapada was written in Abahatta, and Oriya was born out of Abahatta. As a matter of fact, I do agree that Oriya has affinity with Charyapada.

I am objecting to you accusing @Peter of claiming someone else's property.

Sir, my single point of argument is: Prove that Bengali language is older than Odia. I will concede.

 

[pmaitra]

Sir, my single point of argument is: Prove that Bengali language is older than Odia. I will concede.

I never claimed Bengali is older than Oriya. It is possible that Bengali is older than Oriya. It is also possible that Oriya is older than Bengali. I just don't know. I do know that Abahatta is older than both Oriya and Bengali.

 

[Kharavela]

I have also heard that Kalinga's defeated the Mauryas and forces Ashoka to give up violence and embrace Buddhism.

Whatever be the case, I have my doubts about Rasgulla being invented in 12 century or whatever is being claimed by the Odisha government. They are relying on a myth. The modern day Rasgulla cannot be made without the knowledge of cutting of milk, and the knowledge of cutting of milk came from the Portuguese. So either it was some different condiment that coincidentally had the name Rasgulla but was different from modern day Rasgulla, or it is just an attempt to take credit for some's else's invention.

In my opinion, such claims are no different from saying the Sun Temple of Konark was designed by the Bengalis. Konark Temple is a heritage of Odisha and such a masterpiece does not exist anywhere in Bengal. Similarly, Odishi is a dance that does not exist anywhere in Bengal. Oriyas have a lot of things to be proud of, but Rasgulla is not one of them. I see the actions of the Odisha government as trying to take credit for something that was invented elsewhere. It is wrong to take credit for someone's else creation, no matter which direction it goes to.

Sir, I invite you for a visit to Odisha and be my guest. I will take to those villages, where they are traditionally making Rasagola since long past.

I seriously have doubt of Portuguese brought this technique of making Chhena out of Milk. Those buggers didn't have proper dress to wear till 14th century & were probably living in caves.

 

[Kharavela]

I never claimed Bengali is older than Oriya. It is possible that Bengali is older than Oriya. It is also possible that Oriya is older than Bengali. I just don't know. I do know that Abahatta is older than both Oriya and Bengali.

In all those links I've given in my previous posts, it is admitted by almost all wiki links that Odia is atleast 200 years older than Bengali.
P.S. :Though I personally do not believe Wiki too much, still as it is universally claimed by all I do not have too much resistance to it.

 

[pmaitra]

Sir, I invite you for a visit to Odisha and be my guest. I will take to those villages, where they are traditionally making Rasagola since long past.

I seriously have doubt of Portuguese brought this technique of making Chhena out of Milk. Those buggers didn't have proper dress to wear till 14th century & were probably living in caves.

Lived there for years. Speak and read as well.

I have lived in several other places in India.

Every region has its own treasures. I have always admired the classicality of ancient Kalinga region, and as I mentioned earlier, Odisha has a lot of things that Bengal does not have, and Bengal should never take credit for those things. Coming to rasgulla, which this thread is about, it is most likely a misunderstanding or misinterpretation. We did learn a few things from contact with other civilizations.

BTW, if you go to Bandel Church, you will see, even today there is a mast preserved from one of the ships that was part of a Portuguese fleet that travelled to India, and they did come to Bengal.

Here is a PDF that you might find interesting. Search for the texts "milk solids" and "channa."

 

[Simple_Guy]

Gajapati Pratap Rudra Dev's grandfather Gajapati Kapilendra Dev fought valiantly & expanded the empire from Ganga to Kavery.

Interesting. Odiya people live in AP and have demanded second language status for Odiya.

Odiyas in AP

 

[Kharavela]

I have also heard that Kalinga's defeated the Mauryas

Sir, Magadha surrendered unequivocally to the mighty army of Mahameghavahana Aira Kharavela. Pushamitra Shrunga was lucky first time that Emperor Kharavela heard of Greek attack on western frontier & changed his route to kick out Greeks. On his return, he camped outside Magadha & called for Pushamitra Shrunga. Magadha surrendered & Kalinga-Jin returned to its original place.

On the face of 3 lakh infantry, 2 lakh cavalry & 1.5 lakh longbowmen, no contemporary king dared to fight with Emperor Kharavela.