Questioning Current Indian Inter-Personal Culture

Discussion in 'Religion & Culture' started by punjab47, Nov 28, 2015.

  1. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Note please no political, marriage other discussions keep on topic small things make greatest difference

    1. Why do we 'shake hands' gora tradition
    2. Mummy Daddy, Uncle Aunty wtf?
    3. Why do we carry mobiles with google, yet insult our matharbolis by mixing melechi (english) with them?? use shabdkosh.com/pa for example

    4. why do we use spaces between words & commas, periods like bunch of melechas in gurmukhi, devanagri (other indic scripts Idk)

    5. why do we wear pant kameej to wedding? i.e during moment our society grows & creates new unit, it does it in slave dress


    @asingh10 @Bangalorean @spikey360 @Screambowl @Blackwater

    Please add/tag/welcome others,

    This is all I could think of, atm.
     
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  3. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Celebrate Birthday by blowing out Jot with Jootah mooh lol.

    More melechness transcends goras as they also worship fire, or used to.

    edit - First.
     
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  4. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    A more immediate question would be, why you are using English to communicate here. You do not want to "insult our matharbolis by mixing melechi (english)", but you are ok with pure English.

    And that too, pure Canadian/US style English. So what sense do we make out of this dichotomy?
     
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  5. parijataka

    parijataka Senior Member Senior Member

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    Nice thread @punjab47 ji ! Though I don't agree about the dressing comments made by you - clothing should be what is convenient and comfortable to a person whether Western or Indian. Also, about language I am happy if Indians speak correct Hindi, Kannada, Marathi, Punjabi etc and correct English as well !

    One more oddity is kissing of forehead of youngsters by elders - recently started I think by seeing western movies or perhaps some Middle Eastern influence (if it is a tradition anywhere in Bharat I am not aware). Normally younger people touch the feet of elders who then keep the palm of the hand on the person's head and bless them as `jeete raho` or something.

    One more - dressing young kids as Santa Claus in schools whole sale and celebrating Christmas when no one is Christian.

    Mispronouncing Indian words as spoken by Westerners - gives Indians some weird kind of pride to mangle their native languages I guess. Eg - Sikh pronounced as `seekh`, yoga pronounced `yogaa`, mantra as `mantraa`, etc
     
  6. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    It is true that there are several aspects of culture which are blind cases of aping. Santa Claus and "Halloween parties" are a good example. I have even seen "thanksgiving" happening in some "posh" social circles.

    But we should not take it to ridiculous lengths. There is a balance which needs to be maintained at all times.
     
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  7. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Exactly if you do something, do it properly.

    English is lingua franca & important in today's world.

    Why do I have to state the obvious, you hater.
     
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  8. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    @punjab47 pertinent questions. Personally I do not do any of the behaviours you mentioned save #5. But I have been thinking about it since some time, and it was a long time since the last event occured. I don't think it will be the same next time.
    However, coming to the point, the blame for this squarely falls on the 'Indians' alone. We are not passing the traditions of our fathers and grandfathers to our children. Neither do we ourselves care about them.
    We do not have to look far to understand what difference this can make. Just look at Japan. Their children are as modern as modern can be, but still they are deeply rooted in their traditions. Japan and Japanese culture is something worth discussing in detail. Perhaps in a new thread.
    We cannot simply ask people who are doing this blind aping to stop doing this. They would not, and they would make a lot of noise, as is usual for a 'kayastha - one who thinks only about his physical body. Let these people die out. Rather we should focus on revitalising our traditions, re-discovering them and teaching them to our future generations.
    The children are the real treasures of Bharatvarsh, protect them at all costs and teach them the best of our traditions and values. That is the best gift we can give to Bharatmata, for a brighter future than that our present.
     
  9. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Cheap wannabeism. They end up aping the tawdry aspects of the West. Why they have never aped the better things about the west, like punctuality, professionalism, scientific temper & efficiency ?
     
  10. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Call me old fashioned, but this crass materialism, monkey like aping the decadent West is a sign of deep civilizational rot. Even the ones that turn to spirituality, turn to suave & genteel forms that are approved by the West like Sufism, neo-Buddhism, 3HO, ISCKON.
     
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  11. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    @Bangalorean Halloween parties and Thanksgiving? These are the true heathens of our generation. Neither do they deserve to be called Hindus, nor Christians, just heathens.
     
  12. spikey360

    spikey360 Crusader Senior Member

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    Don't forget 'YOGAA'. I still do not understand how Yogasanas can be called Yogaa. Furthermore, what has Yog got to do with Yogasanas.
    I wonder how Modi himself is promoting something which he clearly understands is not the right way to promote.
     
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  13. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    At the end of the day, cultural supremacy and respect comes out of economic strength. The reason the whole world apes Americans is because of their unquestioned dominance in almost all aspects of the 20th century - economic, military, etc. Anything Americans do becomes worth aping.

    I saw a video recently where a Hindu guru was giving a speech in Delhi. He said something very pertinent. In his own words: "The world imitates America. Today, the world over and even here in Delhi, you see people wearing American workmen's clothes. Not even American executive's clothes, but American workmen's clothes. We popularly call these 'jeans'". Come to think of it, isn't it true? That is how jeans originated.

    Then he went on to say, "we want Americans to do Yoga. Because that is the only way our own people will start doing it. The Americans are doing it after all, so even we should - is how Indians will think about it".

    I have a slightly different take. For the next 15 years, we should focus on nothing but economic development. With economic development, military strength and power will follow. With the diminishing influence of the West, we have a once-in-a-lifetime chance to grow our strengths and really develop as a civilization.

    Without economic growth, nothing is possible. I say, we go all out and work for prosperity. Everything else will follow in due course, automatically.
     
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  14. asingh10

    asingh10 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree, Indians who harp about soft power, fail to see that without being backed by hard posturing it's useless. Indian "soft power" influenced Tibet more than China but PRC under the new Han emperor Mao still overran Tibet, lesson should be clear. Where is Greek and Roman "soft power" (philosophy, science & wisdom) today ? Digested entirely by Christians & Muslims. They can do the same with our culture if we don't back it up with military + economy + international diplomacy.
     
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  15. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Yoga is just cheap excuse to sell prostitute, clothing to white women on back of Maratha farmer suicides (or wherever else cotton esp bt is grown here)
     
  16. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Still need light elements of others, i.e to dismantle socialist state you need to strengthen vaishya but not by weakening others.

    Fine line,

    We'll be fine though, if those like you keep this strategy instead of SJW. Which you'll do in 15years time, which is why I predict civil war then. :biggrin2:
     
  17. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Perfect metaphor for this is Kargil:
    Best soldiers, in world getting shot in head with scraped elbows climbing up mountains (rocks).
    For what? No heavy lift helos, paradrops or w.e else for high altitude.
    Manpower, skill, bal mean nothing if you have stick (poverty) vs sword (economy )

    -
    Would not trust anything @Bangalorean says as he means more to leave status quo or even better cong gov so that next gen can become complete kanjar.

    Then there will be all money in world, due to daughter selling.

    To save Dharam Sacrifice Desh,
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  18. punjab47

    punjab47 महाबलामहावीर्यामहासत्यपराक्रमासर्वाग्रेक्षत्रियाजट Banned

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    Gulam does not become free by stealing from his master.

    The shackles on us are all-encompassing & our Sanskriti must lead.

    I.e economic growth = taking farmer land & putting up condo

    Or, 20 toap khanna.

    Which is Guru Sahib's way?

    ‎ਸਤਿਸ਼੍ਰਰੀਅਕਾਲ।।‎
     
  19. Sakal Gharelu Ustad

    Sakal Gharelu Ustad Detests Jholawalas Moderator

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    I do not totally agree on developing hard power without taking proper care of civilization ethos. No doubt India needs hard economic and military power in the next 2 decades but given the speed with which information travels these days, the culture and society we know will be dead.

    I would not have been worried 5 decades ago when there was no internet and no multiculturalism. But the way things work, the world is converging towards American cultural values. Without a strict determination of self-presevation, most of the cultures will vanish the way we see them today. English being lingua-franca is ok, but if it becomes everyday language, which it has become for many elites in India, then India will just become extended arm of US, watching their movies, their drama and following their fads.

    So the question is- can we hold on to our values till India joins the big boys club?
     
  20. Bangalorean

    Bangalorean Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    OK, this question merits a slightly detailed answer, please bear with me. It is a complex question with several variables and complications. It is not a straightforward issue. I am NOT saying that we should simply sit back for 15 years. But the question is, what to do and how to do it.

    Economic growth in the modern era has certain prerequisites. You are much better at economics than I am, and we have had multiple discussions in the past about the imperatives of moving from an agrarian economy to an industrial/services based one. We know that's the only way forward. We need consolidation of landholdings, better farming techniques, and only 10% of the population engaged in farming. There has to be a massive shift to industry and services. We all know this and agree that the current model is unsustainable.

    Now, cultures and civilizational ethos do change with time. Any culture has to adapt or go extinct. Cultures which do not adapt to changing times will be decimated by the winds of change. This is the path that many cultures tried to take, being completely insular. Many of them got decimated or absorbed by more powerful cultures like Christianity.

    The culture and civilizational ethos that was in existence for the India of the past, which was largely an agrarian society, cannot be used as-is and force-fitted in the modern era. We know that urbanization and industrialization is a must (as follows from para 1 above). Certain social mores and civilizational constructs have to be modified, some new ones have to be created, some have to be discarded, etc. This balancing act has to happen hand-in-hand with maintaining a distinct cultural identity as the Hindu/Indic civilization (including Sikh, Jain, Buddhist, etc. Indic/dharmic cultures).

    The resident "digital chamaar" of our forum wants everyone to remain in their "pinds", and to enforce strict jaati compliance. Do you see the dichotomy here - we know that it is economically impossible to do so (para 1), or we wouldn't even be able to achieve economic power and hard power, let alone cultural rootedness. With increasing urbanization and prosperity, a lot of castes will begin to enter the digital economy. Do you think they will sit and allow these buffoons to shit on their heads with their "superiority" notions? The OBCs already dominate in many spheres in several regions. The Yadavs in UP/Bihar, the Gowdas in Karnataka, the Reddys in Andhra, etc. If we co-opt the "digital chamar" types into the RW movement, there will be revulsion and rejection of the entire Hindu civilizational ideology. I want @Mad Indian to think for a moment, if our forum's resident "digital chamaar" were to rule India and impose his version of Hinduism, would @Mad Indian continue to remain a Hindu in India? Or would be prefer to emigrate and save his self-respect and dignity (which is the most important thing for a human)?

    So, two things are clear: 1) Economic realities are changing, and that is inevitable, 2) social mores keep changing, and they need to be malleable enough to adapt to the changing world realities while allowing us to retain a distinct identity.

    One point here about marketing and packaging. The Soviet style commieblock construction versus modern glitzy architecture. The drab Doordarshan of the 1980s versus the satellite TV we got in the 1990s. A plain vanilla text terminal based Linux versus the flashy Mac interface. Marketing and packaging matters. Western cultural exports are PACKAGED very well. They appear COOL to youth, backed by the West's immense hard power and economic clout.

    In India, before the advent of Modi, the general impression of Hindutva was some old fogeys sitting and dictating what to wear and how to behave, and loutish brutes beating up youngsters. It was most "uncool" to be right-wing. The 15-25 age group is the group we need to focus on, THEY are the future, THEY are the ones who will take the civilizational ethos of India forward. We don't even need to care about the 50+ demographic. If you present a wrong image of the right-wing to them, you can kiss goodbye to all your plans. Modi's ascent has been a God's gift to the RW, and there is still some hope. Had this not happened, the whole idea of right-wing cultural revival would have died out. Package it well, and don't encourage stuff that is openly hostile to the youth.

    What then, is the way forward?

    1. Of course, economic growth is paramount.
    2. Generate awareness in the youth about the double-standards of leftists, presstitutes, etc. Make sure they realize that these are dirty words.
    3. Social media is a boon and not a bane, if you use it right. Lots of youth are influenced by it. Use SM to expose the designs of leftists, Islamists and missionaries against our nation. Remember, even the deracinated yuppie youth have a strong sense of identity (if not religion), which is dormant. They do not take kindly to insults to their identity, such as that done by the missionaries, if only it is pointed out to them.
    4. Encourage Indic festivals. Co-opt the use of technology and marketing and make Diwali, Holi etc. real spectacles. It is pretty easy to do once the will is there.
    5. The RW organizations (BD, VHP, RSS, etc.) HAVE to induct fresh blood from the new economy. They need to get volunteers from the crop of engineering professionals, finance professionals, marketing folk, etc. People in the new economy. There will be enough volunteers. The youth need someone whom they can identify with to address them, not a 60+ khaki shorts wearing gentleman.
    6. Textbooks need to be rewritten. That is a massive subject in itself, but we know what the Marxist historians have done. Need corrective action, and fast.
    7. We HAVE to strongly encourage inter-caste marriages and eradication of caste divisions. If the OBCs and SC/STs perceive that someone is shitting on their heads, you can forget about having an Indian civilizational renaissance. Marriages will continue to happen on a CLASS basis, and this is human nature - but caste SHOULD be replaced by CLASS (which is a universal natural phenomenon anyway).

    All this is GROUNDWORK which has to happen in the next 15 years. When the GDP is $7 trillion nominal ($20 trillion PPP), if this groundwork has been done, that is when you will be in a position to have a civilizational renaissance.

    There are many points I have not covered, but this should give an idea of where I am going with all this.
     
  21. Mad Indian

    Mad Indian Proud Bigot Veteran Member Senior Member

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    Bang on.

    Its meaningless to talk about culture on an empty stomach. Ever wondered why most of the RW(even though they much be closet socialists), come from the middle class and not from the poor? Only the middle class have the questions on - who are we and where do we stand in this world and what is our identity . because only they have the stomach, full enough to think that. But, after that, we should be ready to answer their question - who are we , such that it is nationalistic and based on our civilisation. This is where RW intellectual thinks ranks and writers and academia would be valuable.


    We need hundreds of Rajiv Malhotra
     
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