Public Protests in China: How much is allowed?

Discussion in 'China' started by bennedose, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    In unrelated discussions on other threads I was informed that China allows protests. As evidence of this the same news item about the same protest was posted by two different people on two separate occasions in response to this query. Clearly, China has allowed at least one protest.

    I link the news item below and I have some comments about it, which I will make later in this post
    China Protest Forcing Nuclear Retreat Shows People Power - Bloomberg

    To those of us who live outside of Communist China, the act of protesting against the government of something is seen as unfair is normal. We see many protests and we take part and many protests ourselves. But there are a large number of news items, articles and records of the communist government in China clamping down on protests.

    Someone asked me to consult Google and Wikipedia to find out about China. I find that ironic. Google and YouTube and Facebook are banned in China and Google searches are replete with news of clampdowns on protests in China. Clearly protests are not encouraged. To those of us who recognize the value of being able to protest this is a strange situation. Maybe it feels very good, but this thread is to start discussion on the topic and follow it up in the ensuing weeks and months.

    A Google search for "Anti-government protests in China" throws up the following links and more

    China sends riot police to block new protests by flood victims | Reuters

    Chinese police clampdown on anti-government protests | euronews, world news

    Chinese Rise Up in Bloody Anti-Pollution Protests, iPhone Owners Yawn | Motherboard

    Heavy Police Presence Thwarts Call for Protests in China

    Obviously, people do want to protest, but the government will have none of it - or rather it will suppress it if possible.

    But this is where I come back to the Bloomberg news item (linked at top) about THE "protest that was allowed" . Here is a quote:

    This is an amazing piece of information coming from Xinhua. It is "worry of extinction" of the communist party that Xi has openly voiced. In nations with democratically elected governments, if one party dies, it dies because it deserves to die and there is always another party to take over. In China the party worries only when its own ass is on fire, not when the peoples asses are being singed. The news item says that pretty explicitly.

    This thread is basically to follow the pattern of anti government protests in China and how they are dealt with.
     
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  3. jmj_overlord

    jmj_overlord Regular Member

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    so basically it's not total freedom out there, right ? and protests get clamped down by the authorities very quickly............
     
  4. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Protest in China?

    Some polite crowd at best, not protesting, but bleating passed off as pleading.

    China's Public Security Budget is greater than that of its Defence Budget.

    That should indicate the total shiver China has over protest or dissident opinion.

    They want a regulated society that jumps to the CCP tune. or else.........!
     
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  5. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well yes.

    The fallout of such a policy is as follows
    1. Those who don't like something cannot say it or publicly seek support from others who feel like them
    2. Those who do like it say nothing. So if there is a biased policy about payment or compensation where some people get more - these people will keep quiet while others have to swallow it
    3. A third group realizes that they will get punished if they protest and simply pretend that they are happy.
    4. Press censorship will ensure that no negative news gets out.

    The net result is that you provide a picture of a nation where most people are happy and everything is fine.

    Now look at China. Most Chinese seem happy and everything is fine. Isn't it?
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Take the case of Chen Guangcheng, the blind activist. He worked on human rights issues in rural areas of the People's Republic of China and exposed abuses in official family-planning practices, often involving claims of violence and forced abortions.

    He was not even allowed lawyers (not that it would help in the Chinese system of judiciary).

    He was sentenced for what?

    "sentenced to four years and three months for "damaging property and organising a mob to disturb traffic."

    So, that is what happens if you protest in China.
     
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  7. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    Sorry if I overestimated your googling skills.


    World Report 2012: China | Human Rights Watch

    Official and scholarly statistics estimate that 250-500 protests occur per day; participants number from ten to tens of thousands. Internet users and reform-oriented media are aggressively pushing the boundaries of censorship, despite the risks of doing so, by advocating for the rule of law and transparency, exposing official wrong-doing, and calling for reforms.

    Also try Chinasmack.com

    Enjoy.
     
  8. Dovah

    Dovah Untermensch Senior Member

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    250 protests in a country as populous as China is a joke.

    A vague statement, are they asking for political reforms? Are the ones actually challenging the CCP not being prosecuted? What about the prominent critics of the government?

    You are purposely obfuscating and diluting the issue.
     
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  9. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Oh was it you who spoke about Google and quoted Wikipedia as a source of information about China?

    Of course there are protests in China - but the Chinese press is not reporting most of them. Your link is from "Human Rights Watch" that is not a Chinese source.

    Chinasmack.com is something I will watch - but at 200 protests a day (according to human rights watch) surely Chnasmack should have at least one report of a protest? I see none.

    This is precisely what i am saying. News from China is all positive. All well . Hardly any trouble. News about China from outside China says there are issues.

    So who is telling the truth about protests in China? The Chinese sources or the non Chinese ones?
     
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  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    @bennedose.

    In China it is Double Think.

    Double Think is Doublethink is the act of ordinary people simultaneously accepting two mutually contradictory beliefs as correct, often in distinct social contexts.

    Doublethink is related to, but differs from, hypocrisy and neutrality. Somewhat related but almost the opposite is cognitive dissonance, where contradictory beliefs cause conflict in one's mind.

    Doublethink is notable due to a lack of cognitive dissonance — thus the person is completely unaware of any conflict or contradiction.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  11. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    That is an interesting insight Ray. Thanks for posting. I have learned something today
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  12. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I take no credit for it.

    It is from 1984 by George Orwell, who was born IIRC in Motihari, Bihar.
     
  13. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Thanks. I read it too long ago to recall. Need to read it again. But that passage you have quoted about absence of "cognitive dissonance" - is that from the book?
     
  14. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    Yes.

    The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism, by Emmanuel Goldstein, is the fictional book that is a thematic and plot element integral to the dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four (1949), by George Orwell. In the totalitarian society of Oceania, ruled by the seemingly omnipotent, omniscient Party, in its propaganda, Emmanuel Goldstein is the principal enemy of the state — a former member of the Inner Party – continually conspiring against the leadership of Big Brother. Early in the story, the protagonist thinks to himself: "There were . . . whispered stories of a terrible book, a compendium of all the heresies, of which Goldstein was the author and which circulated clandestinely here and there. It was a book without a title. People referred to it, if at all, simply as The Book".

    The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
     
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  15. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    The book (1984) is free to read, download and share.

    here is a downloadable pdf
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3JNY4IY8u2bWlZkeWZfUnhXTW8/edit?usp=sharing
     
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  16. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    In what way are the report obfuscating and diluting the issue? Do you have a better source?
    If so share with us. Otherwise attack the message, not the messenger.

    Just because a source dont contain all the information dosnt means it is obfuscating and diluting.

    We all can use big words, find source and make something out of it is far harder.

    .
     
  17. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    I will argue the truth is relative. You make up your own mind. You get a better picture when you can see it from both sides.
     
  18. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    I would add that there is a yawning chasm between truth and propaganda.
     
  19. ice berg

    ice berg Senior Member Senior Member

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    All propaganda has to be based on some truth, otherwise you cant sell it to people.
     
  20. bennedose

    bennedose Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly. I have no argument with that. I will make up my own mind. Truth being relative is a matter of opinion. Making truth "relative" is also a matter of convenience. I will make up my mind on that as well.
     
  21. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    So China needs Propaganda machine to sell truth... else the common Chinese are too susceptible to falsehood... great idea!!
     

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