Proton Improvement Plan - II(PIP- II)/High Intensity Superconducting Proton Accelerator

[Indx TechStyle]

Posting the thread to track thethe progress of the New Energy Source Initiative jointly between United States (Fermi Lab) and Republic of India (BARC).
You all are requested to put further updates on the thread.
@Navnit Kundu @pmaitra @Chinmoy @sayareakd @LETHALFORCE

 

[Indx TechStyle]

A New US, India Project: A Power Plant Safer Than Nuclear Reactors

Story Highlights

• The project will be the world's first Accelerator Driven

• System reactor
• It will produce green electricity from India's vast reserves of Thorium
• Scientists from Fermilab and Bhaba Research Centre will be part of team

New Delhi: India and America hope to build a first of its kind energy generating system, which is expected to be far safer than the nuclear reactors that are currently being used around the world. This novel reactor will produce green electricity that's carbon-free and therefore environment friendly it is called HISPA or High Intensity Superconducting Proton Accelerator by the Indian side while at Fermilab, it is called project PIP-II, Proton Improvement Plan -II.

A team of scientists from both countries -- drawn from the iconic Fermilab in the US and India's Bhabha Atomic Research Center -- has proposed to build the new energy generator, which will cost above $1 billion. Its first components will be ready by 2023.

The Fermilab, which belongs to the US government, is best known for the world's top of the line particle accelerators -- machines that send fundamental particles spinning at the speed of light in a controlled fashion.

The hallmark of the reactor, which will use Accelerator Driven Systems, or ADS, will be its safety. It is estimated that it would not suffer a nuclear accident as happened in Japan's Fukushima or Russia's Chernobyl.

"They are very safe, since you can turn off the accelerator and everything simply just turns off," Dr Nigel Lockyer, Director, Fermilab, Chicago, USA told NDTV.

Scientists from Fermilab in US are part of the team for the new HISPA accelerator.

On the other hand, the system will be incredibly complex to build, as a whole new generation of material has to be fabricated at giant scales. No country has yet built an Accelerator Driven System for power generation, since getting high intensity beams of neutrons is not easy. It will involve making giant super magnets which will work on temperatures colder than outer space.

Dr Lockyer said the state-of-the-art accelerator will use super conducting technology - which involves eliminating resistance in a material and the expulsion of magnetic fields when it is cooled below a certain temperature.

In the long term, India will house two machines, and along with BARC, institutions in Indore, Kolkata and New Delhi, will help develop them. For now, the first full-fledged ADS reactor could be made in the spanking new campus of BARC that's coming up at Vishakapatnam.

Another machine will be built in Chicago, which will not be used to generate electricity, but study the fundamentals of particle physics.

Dr Anil Kakodkar, former chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission called this a mega science project a "necessity" for humankind.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

@MKM @warrior monk @AnantS @Akask kumar @Kshatriya87

 

[Navnit Kundu]

Will it be a secular proton or a communal proton? I hope this proton doesn't burn the secular fabric of our nation.


Proton Hu Akbar! X5 times a day.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Will it be a secular proton or a communal proton? I hope this proton doesn't burn the secular fabric of our nation.


Proton Hu Akbar! X5 times a day.

Could you please limit politics on related threads?

 

[Akask kumar]

whats the fuel ? n how it works. i bet the key tech involved to run such generator will belong to US.. so they will monopolize the tech .anyways ,, good to see a new power technology in which india is leading..

But as per the article , it appears developing a successful model is still way into the future than it says..

i hope u guies know about the thorium reactor, BARC is working on it.. No country has developed it so far and we lead the world in this direction,i think before this proton reactor we will have our thorium reactor.. good thing about this technology is that we are alone,ahead and the key element Thorium is abundant in India(south india shores)..India has world largest deposit of THorium

so we hold the tech(if built ) and the fuel.. both.. i dnt know about the status of progress,, but i am sure foreign forces are working to sabotage the tech . ILLEGAL THORIUM mINING is going on full scale and no one talks about it be it BJP,CNGRS,AAP..

it is said THORIUM SCAM WILL BE MOTHER OF ALL SCAMS IN INDIA>> we should mine it as early as possible becauce in next Indonesian Tsunami it might get washed away..

 

[Akask kumar]

some updates on thorium reactor

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-former-aec-chairman/articleshow/52489649.cms

There is a misconception that the Indian atomic energy programme has been slow in developing breeder reactors that will be fuelled by the country's vast thorium deposits, a foremost nuclear expert says.

"India has not been slow in developing next generation nuclear reactors that would use thorium as a fuel. Such notions are misconceived. No one in the world is ahead of us in this direction," former Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) chairman and ex-secretary Department of Ato ..

Using thorium is a time-consuming process. By itself it is not a fuel, it is a potential fuel placed in the reactor and some other fissile material is needed to convert it into Uranium 233," he pointed out.

The AHWR will be fuelled by a mix of uranium-233 converted from thorium, and plutonium. Uranium-233 is the reactor fuel for this third stage of the Indian nuclear power programme.

The Advanced Heavy Water Reactor design has been made and it will start work next year

 

[Indx TechStyle]

some updates on thorium reactor

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-former-aec-chairman/articleshow/52489649.cms

We have a dedicated thread for civil nuclear power. Do it there. This thread is for a new technology.

 

[Akask kumar]

We have a dedicated thread for civil nuclear power. Do it there. This thread is for a new technology.

ok . i wasnt aware about it.. thnx

 

[piKacHHu]

This is a marvel achieved more in the field of accelerator technology rather than in nuclear reactor technology. For nuclear reactors, It is meant for providing high intensity proton beam to the target material (i.e. High Z material like Lead) to knock off neutrons which will drive the nuclear fission reaction in the core. So instead of acquiring criticality on its own fissile material as in conventional nuclear reactor system, ADS driven reactor core will be dependent on the neutron beam provided by the target material which will provide absolute control on nuclear fission occurring in the core. But will it make the reactor a lot safer? Going by the Fukushima experience, decay heat was the main culprit which led to the core meltdown and the same decay heat is going to be there in ADS driven system as well. So it's quite early to judge provided this technology has a long way to go to achieve maturity and application in commercial reactors.
Regarding Thorium utilization in this reactor, of course it could be done but before that we need to address the handling issues of Thorium based fuels. Capital cost involved in Thorium processing is too prohibitive as compared to Uranium. AHWR may be is India's first step towards thorium utilization but it's timeline is too far as of now.

 

[MKM]

@Akask kumar @piKacHHu I don't think we will be successful in such technology in two decades.
I read two day ago about plan on nuclear fusion reactors.
One is u/c in CERN in which India is partner but people say that nuclear fusion reactors won't be operational till 2050.
So, I can't assume that we can get such technology so early.
Here "we" means 7 billion people.
Thorium reactor was to be operational in 2016 but we don't have recent update last update was in last quarter of 2015.
We may get easily get operational Th reactor by 2020.

 

[piKacHHu]

One is u/c in CERN in which India is partner but people say that nuclear fusion reactors won't be operational till 2050.
So, I can't assume that we can get such technology so early.
Here "we" means 7 billion people.
Thorium reactor was to be operational in 2016 but we don't have recent update last update was in last quarter of 2015.
We may get easily get operational Th reactor by 2020.

Operation Thorium Reactor in 2020 ? Where did you get this piece of information? In India, AHWR will be the first reactor which will utilize Thorium as fuel. For your information, it is still in design phase. It takes around 8-9 years for a project to go from design stage to AERB approval then pre-commissioning to post commissioning,then first criticality, to fully operational reactor. As you know VVER Unit I is still struggling to achieve sustained 100% full power operation till now. If you are talking about Fast breeder reactor, it will use Natural uranium as blanket not Thorium !
Fusion reactor will become reality much before 2050 ! In fact, India is planning to have its own fusion reactor based on the experience gained in ITER project.

 

[AnantS]

@Indx TechStyle Good going! The research in this type of reactor will also help to design components(like superconducting magnets) for an fusion reactor research.

But this program should not be allowed to shut down AHWR program.

 

[MKM]

Operation Thorium Reactor in 2020 ? Where did you get this piece of information? In India, AHWR will be the first reactor which will utilize Thorium as fuel. For your information, it is still in design phase. It takes around 8-9 years for a project to go from design stage to AERB approval then pre-commissioning to post commissioning,then first criticality, to fully operational reactor. As you know VVER Unit I is still struggling to achieve sustained 100% full power operation till now. If you are talking about Fast breeder reactor, it will use Natural uranium as blanket not Thorium !
Fusion reactor will become reality much before 2050 ! In fact, India is planning to have its own fusion reactor based on the experience gained in ITER project.

Nuclear physics is not my area of study so I am not an expert on subject neither I claimed We will get operational Th before 2020, I said we may get.
I don't know such names of reactors, I just collected information from net & know only one stage, two stage & three stage reactor.
I just got information on net in 2013 or 14 that India will get operational three stage reactor in 2016 so I said we may get by 2020 not said we will get.
That too as we aren't getting updates on project, last update was from a person in last quarter of 2015 who claimed that in 2016 first three stage reactor will be operational & I stretched deadline to 2020 with adding a word "may/can".
That's all sir.
Thank you.

@Indx TechStyle Good going! The research in this type of reactor will also help to design components(like superconducting magnets) for an fusion reactor research.

But this program should not be allowed to shut down AHWR program.

I think we already have spent a huge amount of money, may be more than ₹10,000 crore since independence on Th reactor program, we can't shut that program now.

@piKacHHu I read about ITER & that is for 500MW with $03B investment that why fusion reactor may not be available before 2050,

Rebecca Harms, Green/EFA member of the European Parliament's Committee on Industry, Research and Energy, said: "In the next 50 years, nuclear fusion will neither tackle climate change nor guarantee the security of our energy supply." Arguing that the EU's energy research should be focused elsewhere, she said: "The Green/EFA group demands that these funds be spent instead on energy research that is relevant to the future. A major focus should now be put on renewable sources of energy." French Green party lawmaker Noël Mamère claims that more concrete efforts to fight present-day global warming will be neglected as a result of ITER: "This is not good news for the fight against the greenhouse effect because we're going to put ten billion euros towards a project that has a term of 30–50 years when we're not even sure it will be effective.

 

[AnantS]

I think we already have spent a huge amount of money, may be more than ₹10,000 crore since independence on Th reactor program, we can't shut that program now.

Well thorium reactor program has been slowed down earlier too. Anil Kakodkar hinted the same at a conf in CERN in year 2013. The video is available in youtube So don't discount external pressure/conditions.

 

[MKM]

Well thorium reactor program has been slowed down earlier too. Anil Kakodkar hinted the same at a conf in CERN in year 2013. The video is available in youtube So don't discount external pressure/conditions.

May be.
But a BARC person that we will get it in 2016?
I don't know such thing, just wikipedia.

 

[piKacHHu]

@piKacHHu I read about ITER & that is for 500MW with $03B investment that why fusion reactor may not be available before 2050,

You can check the timeline of fusion reactor on wikipage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power
"Because commercial fusion projects are very large and complex, and ongoing funding is a political issue, such projects usually involve cost overruns and missed deadlines. For example, the construction of the National Ignition Facility cost $5 billion and took seven years longer than expected. ITER's expected cost has gone from $5 billion to $20 billion, and the date for full power operation has been put back to 2027, from the original estimate of 2016"
For commercial application of fusion reactor, we may have to wait till 2050 but it's first prototype will be available at least a decade earlier. You can check ITER website for more details.

India's working on its own proton accelerator project to generate high intensity proton beam. Details of this project is provided in this link
http://www.iuac.res.in/event/ijschool/17/psingh.pdf

Well thorium reactor program has been slowed down earlier too. Anil Kakodkar hinted the same at a conf in CERN in year 2013. The video is available in youtube So don't discount external pressure/conditions.

Thorium utilization is still remain on shaky ground due to various reasons. Reprocessing is a big challenge for Thorium based fuels. Moreover, being a fertile material it needs additional neutron flux to turn into fissile mass. Since Uranium sources are available across the world and we have made civil nuclear bilateral agreements with many countries therefore we don't need to worry about the supply line for our running reactors in near future. I think economics of thorium based reactors is unfavorable as of now. We have to wait for some technological breakthroughs which will make this technology lucrative.

 

[AnantS]

AHWR has been kept out of IAEA purview. Thorium research has strategic angle too.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Great development . A lot of other industries and inventions will come from this pact and development one possibility in the future is a nuclear space engine fueled by thorium?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kyubi]

anything about Nuclear Energy related topics, i would humbly request @warrior monk to grace this thread and shed some light on the proposed Indo-US project !!