Proton Improvement Plan - II(PIP- II)/High Intensity Superconducting Proton Accelerator

Discussion in 'Economy & Infrastructure' started by Indx TechStyle, Jul 16, 2016.

  1. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Posting the thread to track thethe progress of the New Energy Source Initiative jointly between United States (Fermi Lab) and Republic of India (BARC).
    You all are requested to put further updates on the thread. :)
    @Navnit Kundu @pmaitra @Chinmoy @sayareakd @LETHALFORCE
     
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  3. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    A New US, India Project: A Power Plant Safer Than Nuclear Reactors
    [​IMG]
    Story Highlights

    • The project will be the world's first Accelerator Driven
    • System reactor
    • It will produce green electricity from India's vast reserves of Thorium
    • Scientists from Fermilab and Bhaba Research Centre will be part of team
    [​IMG]
    Scientists from Fermilab in US are part of the team for the new HISPA accelerator.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  4. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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  5. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    Will it be a secular proton or a communal proton? I hope this proton doesn't burn the secular fabric of our nation.


    Proton Hu Akbar! :hail: X5 times a day.
     
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  6. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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    Could you please limit politics on related threads?:D
     
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  7. Akask kumar

    Akask kumar Regular Member

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    whats the fuel ? n how it works. i bet the key tech involved to run such generator will belong to US.. so they will monopolize the tech .anyways ,, good to see a new power technology in which india is leading..

    But as per the article , it appears developing a successful model is still way into the future than it says..

    i hope u guies know about the thorium reactor, BARC is working on it.. No country has developed it so far and we lead the world in this direction,i think before this proton reactor we will have our thorium reactor.. good thing about this technology is that we are alone,ahead and the key element Thorium is abundant in India(south india shores)..India has world largest deposit of THorium

    so we hold the tech(if built ) and the fuel.. both.. i dnt know about the status of progress,, but i am sure foreign forces are working to sabotage the tech . ILLEGAL THORIUM mINING is going on full scale and no one talks about it be it BJP,CNGRS,AAP..

    it is said THORIUM SCAM WILL BE MOTHER OF ALL SCAMS IN INDIA>> we should mine it as early as possible becauce in next Indonesian Tsunami it might get washed away..
     
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  8. Akask kumar

    Akask kumar Regular Member

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    some updates on thorium reactor

    http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-former-aec-chairman/articleshow/52489649.cms

     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
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  9. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle Perfaarmance Naarmal Senior Member

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  10. Akask kumar

    Akask kumar Regular Member

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  11. piKacHHu

    piKacHHu Regular Member

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    This is a marvel achieved more in the field of accelerator technology rather than in nuclear reactor technology. For nuclear reactors, It is meant for providing high intensity proton beam to the target material (i.e. High Z material like Lead) to knock off neutrons which will drive the nuclear fission reaction in the core. So instead of acquiring criticality on its own fissile material as in conventional nuclear reactor system, ADS driven reactor core will be dependent on the neutron beam provided by the target material which will provide absolute control on nuclear fission occurring in the core. But will it make the reactor a lot safer? Going by the Fukushima experience, decay heat was the main culprit which led to the core meltdown and the same decay heat is going to be there in ADS driven system as well. So it's quite early to judge provided this technology has a long way to go to achieve maturity and application in commercial reactors.
    Regarding Thorium utilization in this reactor, of course it could be done but before that we need to address the handling issues of Thorium based fuels. Capital cost involved in Thorium processing is too prohibitive as compared to Uranium. AHWR may be is India's first step towards thorium utilization but it's timeline is too far as of now.
     
  12. MKM

    MKM Regular Member

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    @Akask kumar @piKacHHu I don't think we will be successful in such technology in two decades.
    I read two day ago about plan on nuclear fusion reactors.
    One is u/c in CERN in which India is partner but people say that nuclear fusion reactors won't be operational till 2050.
    So, I can't assume that we can get such technology so early.
    Here "we" means 7 billion people.
    Thorium reactor was to be operational in 2016 but we don't have recent update last update was in last quarter of 2015.
    We may get easily get operational Th reactor by 2020.
     
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  13. piKacHHu

    piKacHHu Regular Member

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    Operation Thorium Reactor in 2020 ? Where did you get this piece of information? In India, AHWR will be the first reactor which will utilize Thorium as fuel. For your information, it is still in design phase. It takes around 8-9 years for a project to go from design stage to AERB approval then pre-commissioning to post commissioning,then first criticality, to fully operational reactor. As you know VVER Unit I is still struggling to achieve sustained 100% full power operation till now. If you are talking about Fast breeder reactor, it will use Natural uranium as blanket not Thorium !
    Fusion reactor will become reality much before 2050 ! In fact, India is planning to have its own fusion reactor based on the experience gained in ITER project.
     
  14. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

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    @Indx TechStyle Good going! The research in this type of reactor will also help to design components(like superconducting magnets) for an fusion reactor research.

    But this program should not be allowed to shut down AHWR program.
     
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  15. MKM

    MKM Regular Member

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    Nuclear physics is not my area of study so I am not an expert on subject neither I claimed We will get operational Th before 2020, I said we may get.
    I don't know such names of reactors, I just collected information from net & know only one stage, two stage & three stage reactor.
    I just got information on net in 2013 or 14 that India will get operational three stage reactor in 2016 so I said we may get by 2020 not said we will get.
    That too as we aren't getting updates on project, last update was from a person in last quarter of 2015 who claimed that in 2016 first three stage reactor will be operational & I stretched deadline to 2020 with adding a word "may/can".
    That's all sir.
    Thank you.
    I think we already have spent a huge amount of money, may be more than ₹10,000 crore since independence on Th reactor program, we can't shut that program now.

    @piKacHHu I read about ITER & that is for 500MW with $03B investment that why fusion reactor may not be available before 2050,

    Rebecca Harms, Green/EFA member of the European Parliament's Committee on Industry, Research and Energy, said: "In the next 50 years, nuclear fusion will neither tackle climate change nor guarantee the security of our energy supply." Arguing that the EU's energy research should be focused elsewhere, she said: "The Green/EFA group demands that these funds be spent instead on energy research that is relevant to the future. A major focus should now be put on renewable sources of energy." French Green party lawmaker Noël Mamère claims that more concrete efforts to fight present-day global warming will be neglected as a result of ITER: "This is not good news for the fight against the greenhouse effect because we're going to put ten billion euros towards a project that has a term of 30–50 years when we're not even sure it will be effective.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  16. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

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    Well thorium reactor program has been slowed down earlier too. Anil Kakodkar hinted the same at a conf in CERN in year 2013. The video is available in youtube So don't discount external pressure/conditions.
     
  17. MKM

    MKM Regular Member

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    May be.
    But a BARC person that we will get it in 2016?
    I don't know such thing, just wikipedia.
     
  18. piKacHHu

    piKacHHu Regular Member

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    You can check the timeline of fusion reactor on wikipage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_power
    "Because commercial fusion projects are very large and complex, and ongoing funding is a political issue, such projects usually involve cost overruns and missed deadlines. For example, the construction of the National Ignition Facility cost $5 billion and took seven years longer than expected. ITER's expected cost has gone from $5 billion to $20 billion, and the date for full power operation has been put back to 2027, from the original estimate of 2016"
    For commercial application of fusion reactor, we may have to wait till 2050 but it's first prototype will be available at least a decade earlier. You can check ITER website for more details.

    India's working on its own proton accelerator project to generate high intensity proton beam. Details of this project is provided in this link
    http://www.iuac.res.in/event/ijschool/17/psingh.pdf

    Thorium utilization is still remain on shaky ground due to various reasons. Reprocessing is a big challenge for Thorium based fuels. Moreover, being a fertile material it needs additional neutron flux to turn into fissile mass. Since Uranium sources are available across the world and we have made civil nuclear bilateral agreements with many countries therefore we don't need to worry about the supply line for our running reactors in near future. I think economics of thorium based reactors is unfavorable as of now. We have to wait for some technological breakthroughs which will make this technology lucrative.
     
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  19. AnantS

    AnantS Senior Member Senior Member

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    AHWR has been kept out of IAEA purview. Thorium research has strategic angle too.
     
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  20. LETHALFORCE

    LETHALFORCE Moderator Moderator

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    Great development . A lot of other industries and inventions will come from this pact and development one possibility in the future is a nuclear space engine fueled by thorium?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  21. Kyubi

    Kyubi Regular Member

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    anything about Nuclear Energy related topics, i would humbly request @warrior monk to grace this thread and shed some light on the proposed Indo-US project !!
     

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