Poonch uprising 1948 and reasons for Pathan tribal intervention

Discussion in 'Military History' started by Pak-sarzameen, Oct 10, 2014.

  1. Pak-sarzameen

    Pak-sarzameen Regular Member

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    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
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  3. sydsnyper

    sydsnyper Senior Member Senior Member

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    Are you advertising your own lame blog or are you interested in serious discussion ??

    Your blogspot advertisement is getting so prolific that @Neo is falling behind on liking them ..... :D :D :D :D :D
     
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  4. Pak-sarzameen

    Pak-sarzameen Regular Member

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    No one is stopping you from discussion, counter-arguements
     
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  5. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    But who is stopping u to debate on current issues on this forum???
     
  6. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    The so called Pathan tribals, led by the Pak Army stormed through the Baramullah corridor.

    They has some ethnic equation with the Kashmiris?
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
  7. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    It was plunder or murders that delayed the Pakistani hordes and that is why they could not take Srinagar which they could have done so easily and swiftly against the weakened Dogra Raj army, only if they were a bit professional and less brigand like.

    Tribal people have always been attracted by plunder, pillage, rape as their cause célèbre as history indicates.

    Loot is their second name.

    Spin doctors can say what they want.
     
  8. Pak-sarzameen

    Pak-sarzameen Regular Member

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    The claim that , the delay of tribals in reaching srinagar was due to their having time in looting, is false and can not be verified. Tribal lashkars had cooperation of kashmiris of poonch. The delay was due to lack of supply lines.
     
  9. Blackwater

    Blackwater Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    that is human nature, u cant deny
     
  10. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    What supply lines delay?

    They were coming along a well developed tarmac Rawalpindi-Murree-Muzaffarabad-Baramulla Road.

    And why did they stop for 07 days at Baramulla? To savour Kashmiri kahwa?

    Anyone who has any idea of tribal behaviour knows that they are not an organised army, and instead are brigands, each man for himself. If they do not capitalise on the situation to enhance their fortunes, then who would.

    So, let us not be delusional.

    Check history. Check psychology.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  11. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    1) what right Pakistan have to invade Kashmir, an independent state which is yet to make a decision whether to join Pakistan or India??

    2) The Maharaja signed a stand still agreement with Pakistan, this is clearly a violation of the agreement and a terrorist act.

    3) Talking about taxation, why Hypocrisy?? Muslim rulers always taxed non muslims in India. The rule goes both ways.

    4) The tribes men engaged in murders and looting on their way to Srinagar the aim is to frighten the Kashmir ruler Hari Singh into submission. This is a fact !!

    5) Seeing the response from Pakistan and the terrorist Jihad it had done in his kingdom Hari Singh appealed to GOI and joined India. This is legitimate accession and there is no need for UN intervention.

    6) It is weak leadership of Nehru that made POK a part of Pakistan , a strong leader would have engaged with Pakistan and recaptured those peaks also. Instead Nehru went to UN.

    7) In 1947 India has clear advantage over Pakistan in Military.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
  12. Pak-sarzameen

    Pak-sarzameen Regular Member

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    Actually they were not tribal hordes of medieval times, they were fighting with british empire since 1849 and were familiar with modern warfare and had adopted tactics to deal with them. They were not primitive hordes that they had to invade through whole of kashmir within days. Tribesmen fought a war from october 1947 to janaury 1949, it speaks volume about their discipline.
     
  13. Pak-sarzameen

    Pak-sarzameen Regular Member

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    India forcibly annexed hindu majority states of hyderabad and jonagadh, pakistan had the right to annex kashmir on same lines. Without tribal intervention, we wouldnt have acquired even an inch of kashmir. The tribal intervention was fully justified, poonchis invited them.

    And no, indian army couldnt fight a long war, pashtun tribesmen were prolonging the war, they were masters of such warfare. India was basically fighting with two armies 1- Pashtun lashkar 2-Pak army. Too bad nehru went to U.N, he knew war is stretching beyond its limits for india.
     
  14. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    There is one more rule during partition, The princely states have a choice to join either India or Pakistan. Kashmir joined India since India successfully defended the decision of Maharaja Hari Singh. Where as Pakistan could not come to the rescue of Hyderabad and Junagarh.

    But Pakistan annexed Baluchistan.

    Not true, Indian army has air support and also has ammunition and stocks to fight the war.

    There is no comparison between IA which has air support, tanks and ammunition and the tribes men who number in 100's. IA has the numbers and supply lines.

    Yes Pashtun tribesmen are fierce fighters in their home land that is hilly terrain fighting a guerrilla warfare.

    Trained and well disciplined army will always have the advantage when fighting modern wars with guns.
     
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  15. Pak-sarzameen

    Pak-sarzameen Regular Member

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    I was talking about 1947-48, you are forgetting that tribesmen were not alone, pak army entered into the war on may 1948
     
  16. Srinivas_K

    Srinivas_K Senior Member Senior Member

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    Yes, this where Nehru failed the Kashmir cause.

    He should have not gone to UN.

    For Pakistanis it is like who grabs first and occupies, they are eying New Delhi the entire time, Mogulistan is their motto.

    The rule should have kept like that and the war should have continued. Indian leaders at that time are in non violent Independence movement hangover.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2014
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  17. Ray

    Ray The Chairman Defence Professionals Moderator

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    First of all, one must understand that any body of men who are conversant with modern warfare would not halt at any spot for 07 days. Any pause in battle only allows the other side to reorganise, refit and replenish, thereby making it more difficult for the attacker to pursue by maintaining the momentum of the attack.

    Knowing minor tactics does not mean that one knows how to conduct a battle with modern principles of war, of which the Selection of Aim, and Maintain the Momentum are two cardinal aspects.

    However, it is immensely difficult to shed ancient mindset of a body that is more of a spontaneous rabble. Therefore, the most unmilitary pause in Baramullah is indicative of the mindset to loot, plunder and pillage.

    If this pause was not there, given the momentum, the tribal hordes would have reached Srinagar and claimed victory and upset the plans of the Maharaja and Sheik Obdullah.

    However, the mindset for greed causing the pause allowed them to fly in the Indian Army and the hordes were halted at Badgam and then routed to turn tail at Shalatang.

    It is not the tribal who prolonged the war, but the induction of the regular Pakistan Army. That is why the UN resolution indicates that Pakistan has to withdraw its Army from J&K before the Plebiscite can take place.

    Further, the Pak Army was involved even when the tribals were rampaging into Kashmir.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2014
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