PLA - a high-speed accident waiting to happen?

W.G.Ewald

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If you are worse, don't judge others.

But we don't like to be judged by people from a country worse than China.
Where is The Diplomat published? Not in India.

The comments which follow the article are worth reading...

Mike Waters
October 20, 2012 at 8:13 am

True as far as it goes, but how does this compare with the US/Canadian "Trans-Continental Railroad" deals of the 19th century??? I suspect that the corruption/profiteering was very similar!
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A Trash Blog More And More?
October 20, 2012 at 8:44 am

This is pure BS and speculative slander with no facts to boot. No wonder learned people quote the Foreign Policy magazine for respectability. No respectable person will dare to quote the Diplomat as a source of facts and honest sophisticated intellectual opinion. Which trash can did TD scrap its writers from?
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Charlie
October 22, 2012 at 9:10 am

As an American living in China I can attest that China's high speed railways are a delight to ride. They are quiet, clean, cheap. The staff is courteous, well mannered and will go to great lengths to offer foreigners outstanding service. The downside is since the single accident they had they have lowered the speed of the trains by some 20% which is a bummer, but the trains are still wonderful none the less. It no longer makes sense to drive because the trains are faster and cheaper than driving.
By comparison lets talk about American Amtrak trains. You MUST have an ID to purchase a ticket in advance for the trains. Amtrak staff can be beligerent and rude sometimes. Bathrooms on trains in China are cleaner than on trains in the USA!!! And the food! On a Chinese train I can purchase a roast chicken leg with a boiled egg and a vegtable for $4.00 and a beer for $1.00. What will $5.00 buy you in the USA?
As for corruption, I don't see it when I am on the trains. But corruption exists all over the world. It is the corrupt unions in the USA which cause wage inflation for government subsidized slovenly Amtrak workers who have wasted $834 Million in losses on Amtrak dining cars during the last 10 years? Have you ever even been to China?
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ob
October 22, 2012 at 11:14 pm

You have spend too much time in Chin, you have been brainwashed by the CCP and sound more like John Chan then an American.
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Steven
October 22, 2012 at 2:03 pm

Only in September and oct this year, China put 1770 km of NEW HIGH-SPEED railways into operation. More are coming. This is the result after 2 year slowdown of railway construction. US$100 billion is a lot, but in China, a lot more can be accomplished with that money. BTW, China's railway construction is NOT only about high-speed railways, a lot of convention railways are also being constructed
In 2009, China invested a little more than US$110 billion. With that money China started more than 120 new projects. Finishedmore than 5400 km new lines and put more than 5500 km of new lines into operation, including 2320 km of high-speed railways. Electrified 8450 km of lines. "¦ All done in one year.
As one reader pointed out this blog is only pure BS and speculative slander with no facts to boot.
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Steven
October 22, 2012 at 4:48 pm

China has the largest high-speed railway network (maybe still cannot be called a network until 2 or 3 years later when high-speed railways in China are more connected). The total longth of China's high-speed railways was more than 8000 km at the end of 2011, more than all other countries combines. There was one fatal accident in July 2011 caused by lightening and mismangement. Other than that accident, China's high-speed is very safe. German and other countries had fatal accidents too. German's derail of high-speed trains caused lives of more than 100 people in 1998 without any natural force involved. Japan's high-speed train derailed in 2005 at the cost of 107 lives. Accidents on railways are happening everywhere. But westen media prone to mentioned China's accident again and again to maker themselves more conformtable when they are seeing China's fast development. For such a big high-speed railway network at begining years, China's safety record is not bad at all. So many high-speed trains are running on the railroads for 4 years already, China's high-speed railway technologies are very well tested, let alone any new type of trains in China must pass 500,000 km (half million km) test run before commercial operations.
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nimo_cn

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Where is The Diplomat published? Not in India.

The comments which follow the article are worth reading...
I am sorry, but who is quoting this article, and what is the purpose?

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Ray

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I am sorry, but who is quoting this article, and what is the purpose?

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Quoting for comments of the honourable know all Chinese posters.

Sent from Hing Ping Service.
 

Ray

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Then Indian is what kind of Paradise? Paradise of Slum dogs?
You know so little.

gar firdaus bar roo-e zameen ast,
Hameen ast-o hameen ast-o hameen ast.


If there is a paradise on earth,
It is this, it is this, it is this (India).

So wrote Hazrat Amir Khusrau.

This may interest you.

Tu shabana mi numaai be barkay boodi imshab,
Ke hunooz chashm-e mastat asar-e khumar daarad.


You look sleepless, in whose embrace did you pass the night;
Your intoxicated eye has still the signs of tipsiness.
 

nimo_cn

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Quoting for comments of the honourable know all Chinese posters.

Sent from Hing Ping Service.
By Indians who are doing much worse?

Sent from Huawei Ascend T8300
 

Ray

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This is from Al Jazeera.

It is a Qatar TV network and Qatar is a Muslim State.

Qatar is not India, in case you did not know.

Unlike China, in India cannot frogmarch chaps and organisation to toe the Govt line and more so, we have no control over foreign broadcaster.

If you have a problem, address your issue to Qatar and Qataris.

But what is shown is not true?

Chinese Govt may have good reasons to have prisoners being productive for the Nation and not merely be confined. It may be also reforming them through labour, but then while that makes good sense to China, it apparently is not seen in that light by the world.

It is not a problem for China to have many prisoners because the Chinese law is very strict and very swift without the rigmarole of democracies having too many appeals court through various layers and so there will obviously be more prisoners than anywhere in the world.
 
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Ray

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What is a Laogai?

Laogai, the abbreviation for Láodòng Gǎizào (勞動改造/劳动改造), which means "reform through labour," is a slogan of the Chinese criminal justice system and has been used to refer to the use of prison labour and prison farms in the People's Republic of China (PRC). It is estimated that in the last fifty years, more than 50 million people have been sent to laogai camps.

Laogai is distinguished from laojiao, or re-education through labour, which is an administrative detention for a person who is not a criminal but has committed minor offenses, and is intended to reform offenders into law-abiding citizens. Persons detained under laojiao are detained in facilities that are separate from the general prison system of laogai. Both systems, however, involve penal labor.

Publication of information about China's prison system by Al Jazeera English resulted in its expulsion from China on May 7, 2012

In the 21st century, critics have said that Chinese prisons produce products for sale in foreign countries, with the profits going to the PRC government. Products include everything from green tea to industrial engines to coal dug from mines. Similar practices are found in Western countries (the production of license plates in the US for example).

According to the researchers James D. Seymour and Richard Anderson, the products made in laogai camps comprise an insignificant amount of mainland China's export output and gross domestic product, .They argue that the use of prison labour for manufacturing is not in itself a violation of human rights, and that most prisoners in Chinese prisons are serving time for what are generally regarded as crimes in the West. The Western criticism of the laogai is based not only on the export of products made by forced labour, but also on the claims of detainees being held for political or religious violations, such as leadership of unregistered Chinese House Churches

Harry Wu has written books, including Troublemaker and Laogai that describe the system from the 1960s to the 1990s. Wu spent nineteen years, from 1960 to 1979, as a prisoner in these camps, for having criticized the government while he was a young college student. Almost starving to death, he eventually escaped to the US.

In "Mao: The Unknown Story", the Mao biographer Jung Chang and historian Jon Halliday estimate that perhaps 27 million people died in prisons and labour camps during Mao Tse-tung's rule. They say that inmates were subjected to back-breaking labor in the most hostile wastelands, and that executions and suicides by any means (like diving into a wheat chopper) were commonplace

The conditions that Laogai prisoners live in have been under scrutiny as the world learns more about them. The Chinese government has stated.

"Our economic theory holds the human being is the most fundamental productive force. Except for those who must be exterminated physically out of political consideration, human beings must be utilized as productive forces, with submissiveness as the prerequisite. The Laogai system's fundamental policy is 'Forced Labour as a means, while Thought Reform' is our basic aim.'"

Clothing
Unlike Laojiao inmates, Laogai criminals are issued clothing. Depending on the locale and its economic situation, the quality of clothing can vary significantly. Some prisoners may receive black or grey while others wear dark red or blue. Also depending on location, the clothing is available in different thicknesses. Commonly stamped on the uniforms are the Chinese characters for fan and lao gai meaning "criminal" and "reform through labour," respectively.

Also issued to the prisoners is a pair of shoes made of rubber or plastic. These minimums do not meet the needs of the prisoners, who must purchase underclothes, socks, hats and jackets with their meagre monthly earnings of 2.5–3 yuan ($0.37–$0.44 USD as of April 11, 2009). To make escapees easily identifiable, the Chinese have adopted the practice of shaving prisoners' heads, a practice inherited from the Soviet Gulag and/or Tsarist Katorga. Jackets were rare in the Mao era and were commonly made from patches of old blankets rather than from original cloth. Washing clothes was also rare, but clothing supplies in prisons have improved since the mid-Deng-Jiang Era.

Food

Food distribution has varied much through time, similar to its variation across the "over 1,155 documented laogai" camps. One near Beijing distributes between 13.5 and 22.5 kg of food per person per month. This is about average. The food is sorghum and corn, which are ground into flour and made into bread or gruel. The prisoners of this camp also receive three ounces of cooking oil per month. Every two weeks, the prisoners receive "a special meal of pork broth soup and white-flour steamed buns." Important Chinese holidays, such as New Year's, National Day, and the Spring Festival, are celebrated with meat dumplings, an exception in an otherwise meatless diet.

Food is distributed by one person per squad, a squad consisting of about ten people. This prisoner, called the zhiban or 'duty prisoner' delivers the food to the rest of his group in large bowls on a cart. This often involves pushing the cart a great distance to the place where the others are working. Each day prisoners receive gruel, bread, and a watery vegetable soup made from the cheapest vegetables available. Some camps have reported two meals a day while others allow three. Food is rationed according to rank and productive output, which is believed to provide motivation to work.
During the Mao era, food in prisons was very scarce, partly because of a nationwide famine (1959–1962) but also because of the harsher rules. Since so little food was available, prisoners would scavenge anything they came across while working. Cases were documented of prisoners eating "field mice, crickets, locusts, toads, grapevine worms, grasshoppers, insect larvae and eggs, and poisonous snakes." Also, many inmates would steal produce from the fields they worked on, smuggling vegetables back to their barracks. In Jiabiangou, Gansu, around 2,500 out of 3,000 prisoners died of starvation between 1960 and 1962, with some survivors resorting to cannibalism.

Nutrition in the camps was a big problem, especially during the early 1950s through the 1960s, in the early years of the PRC (People's Republic of China). Before the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) took control, hunger was rarely used to control prisoners. Early leaders of the CCP realized the power of withholding food from rebellious prisoners and, until recently, this practice was very common. Some camps in coastal regions have improved the quality and amount of food since the early nineties.

Living quarters and sanitation

The living quarters, commonly referred to as barracks in most Laogai literature, are relatively primitive. Most have floors made of cement or wood, but some are of only straw and/or earth. The latrine is a bucket, and no furniture is provided. The prisoners sleep on the floor in a space 30 cm wide, with ten people per room. New prisoners are forced to sleep nearest to the latrine while more senior ones sleep near the opposite wall.

Baths and showers are very rare, often not mentioned at all in memoirs. The only form of washing is the use of a water basin, which is only slightly less rare. This is ineffective, since the entire squad uses the same water. Basic essentials, such as a toothbrush and toothpaste, toilet paper, soap and towels, are not provided; prisoners must spend their wages to acquire them. Prisoners are known to have spread manure, both human and animal, and been required to eat immediately without being able to wash their hands.

The sleeping quarters are surrounded on all sides by a wall. This wall is about 20 feet high and topped with electrical fencing. There are also sentry towers on each corner. Outside this wall is forty feet of empty space, followed by another wall, similar to the first but larger.

Disease and pests

The Laogai camps are infested with many types of pests. Bed bugs are so numerous that at night they sometimes move in swarms. This behaviour has earned them the Laogai nickname of tanks or 'tanke'. They suck the blood of the prisoners, leaving little red welts all over their bodies. These welts itch, and severe cases have led to inmates scratching their skin raw, leading to dangerous infections.

Another common pest is lice; some 'convicts' have been known to eat them to supplement their meagre diet. No insecticide or pesticides are used in the camps. The prisoner Zhang Xianliang wrote that "the parasites on a single inmate's underpants would be as numerous as the words on the front page of a newspaper." He noted fleas would be so numerous that they would "turn his quilt purplish black with their droppings." Roundworms are also a common threat to the prisoners' health, especially in laogai farms, where human excrement is used as fertilizer.

Along with a poor diet come many diet-related diseases: beriberi, edema, and scurvy are the most common, due to lack of vitamins. Other health problems caused by the lack of healthy food include severe diarrhoea or constipation from the lack of oil and fibre. These two are often left untreated and, added to the continuous strain of twelve hours of manual labor, weaken the immune system. Eventually, death follows many of these conditions.

Two diseases rampant among the populations of these camps are tuberculosis and hepatitis. Highly contagious, these are also often left untreated until it is too late. Each morning, the cadre of the camp decides who is sick enough to stay in the barracks and miss the day of work. Many prisoners are forced to work when they are ill. Mental illness used to be very common during the Mao era, when prisoners had to spend two hours each evening being indoctrinated. The brainwashing that occurred over the amount of time people were imprisoned could be so intense that they were driven to insanity and, in many cases, suicide.

"Reform[ing] through labour"

Forced labour that defines Laogai prison camps. The following is a description of an average day in the prison camp Tuanhe Farm by Harry Wu, executive director of the LRF (Laogai Research Foundation[where?]). He spent nineteen years in a Laogai prison camp like this one.

"Prisoners are roused from bed at 5:30 am, and at 6:00 the zhiban from the kitchen wheels in a cart with tubs of corn gruel and cornbread "¦ at 7:00 the company public security cadre (captain) comes in, gathers all the prisoners together, and authorizes any sick prisoners to remain in the barracks. Once at the worksite, the captain delegates production responsibilities "¦ At lunchtime the zhiban arrives pulling a handcart with a large tub of vegetable soup, two hunks of cornbread for each prisoner, and a large tube of drinking water "¦ after about thirty minutes, work is resumed until the company chief announces quitting time in the evening. Generally the prisoners return to the barracks at about 6:30 pm. Upon return it is once again a dinner of cornbread, corn gruel, and vegetable soup. At 7:30, the two-hour study period begins"¦ At 9:30, no matter what the weather, all prisoners gather together outside the barracks for roll call and a speech from the captain. At around 10:00 everyone goes to bed. During the night no lights are allowed and no one is allowed to move about. One must remain in one's assigned sleeping place and wait until 5:30 the next morning before getting up, when the whole cycle begins again."

Quota filling is a big part of the inmates' lives in Laogai camps. Undershooting or overshooting the target productivity governs their quality of life. Not making the number may result in solitary confinement or loss of food privileges. Generally, food rations are cut by 10–20% if a worker fails to meet the standard. Some prisoners excel and are able to do more than what is required of them. They sometimes receive extra or better quality food. It has been argued that this extra food is not worth the extra calories burned to be more productive, so many prisoners choose to do the minimum with minimum effort, thereby saving as much energy as possible.

Working conditions in Laogai camps are sub-standard.

"Investigators from the Laogai Research Foundation have confirmed sites where prisoners mine asbestos and other toxic chemicals with no protective gear, work with batteries and battery acid with no protection for their hands, tan hides while standing naked in vats filled three-feet deep with chemicals used for the softening of animal skins, and work in improperly run mining facilities where explosions and other accidents are a common occurrence."

Career preparation has historically been used to justify forced labour prison systems around the world. In China, although this argument was used, career preparation was minimal until recently. Following release, the skills acquired within the Laogai prison (i.e. ditch-digging or manure-spreading) do not often lead to desirable employment. Inmates who entered the Laogai system with marketable skills were often assigned jobs utilizing these skills within the prison complex. Doctors, for example, were doctors within the Laogai camp often receiving preferential treatment, larger amounts of food, similar to the cadre, and a bed. "Inmates rarely leave with any new skills unless the training fits the camp's enterprising needs." More recently however, programs have been introduced to train prisoners in useful trades.[why?]

While there are many types of Laogai complexes, most enterprises are farms, mines or factories. There are, according to the Chinese government, "approximately 200 different kinds of Laogai products that are exported to international markets." "A quarter of China's tea is produced in Laogai camps; 60 percent of China's rubber-vulcanizing chemicals are produced in a single Laogai camp in Shengyang "¦ one of the largest steel-pipe factories in the country is a Laogai camp "¦ " One Camp alone, Ziangride, harvests more than 22,000 metric tons of grain every year. Dulan County prisoners have planted over 400,000 trees.

The conditions in these camps are considered extremely harsh by most of the world's cultures. However, the Chinese government considers Laogai to be effective in controlling prisoners and furthering China's economy. According to Mao Zedong, "The Laogai facilities are one of the violent component parts of the state machine. Laogai facilities of all levels are established as tools representing the interests of the proletariat and the people's masses and exercising dictatorship over a minority of hostile elements originating from exploiter classes." Activist Harry Wu has catalyzed the debate on the issue of Laogai, which is now becoming a more visible issue worldwide.

Other information

In 2003, the word "laogai" entered the Oxford English Dictionary. It entered the German Duden in 2005,[26] and French and Italian dictionaries in 2006.

In 2008, Harry Wu opened the Laogai Museum in Washington, D.C., calling it the first ever United States museum to directly address human rights in China

Wiki
 

Ray

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By Indians who are doing much worse?

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A very incisive observation.

True we are nowhere to where China is.

Being a democracy, we cannot organise prison labour to produce cheap merchandise and capture the world market.

Or flood our prison with trumped up cases so as to find cheap labour. The layers of appeals court does make it tiresome to replicate China's march to the top of world economy through slave labour!

If we could, then India would be a different story.
 

W.G.Ewald

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Laogai, the abbreviation for Láodòng Gǎizào (勞動改造/劳动改造), which means "reform through labour," is a slogan of the Chinese criminal justice system and has been used to refer to the use of prison labour and prison farms in the People's Republic of China (PRC). It is estimated that in the last fifty years, more than 50 million people have been sent to laogai camps.
Obama will be introducing it here in his 2nd term.
 

Ray

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Lugai in Haryanvi means wife!
 

Ray

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Obama will be introducing it here in his 2nd term.
That way US will please all.

Obama with Laogai, which will fail, US being US.

And Mitt Romney will buy stocks of Laogai companies of China.

China will laugh all the way to the bank!
 

amoy

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A very incisive observation.

True we are nowhere to where China is.

Being a democracy, we cannot organise prison labour to produce cheap merchandise and capture the world market.

Or flood our prison with trumped up cases so as to find cheap labour. The layers of appeals court does make it tiresome to replicate China's march to the top of world economy through slave labour!

If we could, then India would be a different story.
I'm jealous of India the epitome of democracy. Let's learn together another version of democracy >>>

Prison labor is poised to become one of America's most important growth industries. Over 3/4 of a million incarcerated are currently employed, more than any Fortune 500 business. Is this a benefit to the imprisoned, or just another opportunity for greed?

If you still believe that prisoners are only in the business of producing license plates, guess again. Private corporations are making a killing employing prisoners across the US. They are hiring the incarcerated to manufacture everything from designer jeans to computer circuit boards.

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/199622#ixzz2AfO4VhGp.

Yahoo! Answers - Who regulates private prison labor in the USA?
 
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Ray

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I am sure there is a difference in US prison labour being constructive used and paid a normal salary to the Laogai which is slave labour.

Do show some links where the US prisoners are not paid and work from morning to midnight!

In case you have not noticed beyond your nationalistic jingo pink clouds I have said the China uses prisoners for productive labour. While I am all against parasites living off the State, I also do not subscribe to slave like conditions.
 
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nimo_cn

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A very incisive observation.

True we are nowhere to where China is.

Being a democracy, we cannot organise prison labour to produce cheap merchandise and capture the world market.

Or flood our prison with trumped up cases so as to find cheap labour. The layers of appeals court does make it tiresome to replicate China's march to the top of world economy through slave labour!

If we could, then India would be a different story.
China and India are two differently stories in many ways.

Democratic India is one of most dangerous places for women, while women in totalitarian China don't have to worry about going outside at night. I guess only women can understand how different the two are from each other.

If it was prisoners that assist China to capture the world market, I must say CPC did the right thing by introducing the Laogai policy. They are criminals, so what should we do with them? Feed them and let them do nothing, that is a waste of the tax-payers' money. Don't forget, most tax-payers are good people who obey the law, don't you think it is unfair to those people. And let us not forget, most Chinese taxpayers are not rich, we can't let them feed the criminals.

So why not put them to work? Working produces profit, and help the prisoners learn how to work so that they can support their life with their own hands and don't have to steal, rob, or prostitute after they get out of prisons.
 

Ray

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China and India are two differently stories in many ways.

Democratic India is one of most dangerous places for women, while women in totalitarian China don't have to worry about going outside at night. I guess only women can understand how different the two are from each other.

If it was prisoners that assist China to capture the world market, I must say CPC did the right thing by introducing the Laogai policy. They are criminals, so what should we do with them? Feed them and let them do nothing, that is a waste of the tax-payers' money. Don't forget, most tax-payers are good people who obey the law, don't you think it is unfair to those people. And let us not forget, most Chinese taxpayers are not rich, we can't let them feed the criminals.

So why not put them to work? Working produces profit, and help the prisoners learn how to work so that they can support their life with their own hands and don't have to steal, rob, or prostitute after they get out of prisons.
Indeed that is right that in China it is safer than India.

That is why I commend the Communist Govts which some of you don't appreciate in your zeal to indicate that you are getting 'western'!

Communist Govt gives its writ and ensures all obey that, even if there is a requirement of force.

And the best part of Communist Govts is that they do not care for all the western form of Judicial system of appeals through various layers of courts. Instead, they take it to be black or white and ensures their law is implemented without waste of time. Of course, such a system would have flaws, but then the theory would possibly be that let 99 innocent or semi innocent get convicted than one guilty going free.

Laogai system is ideal in an ideal State, where the prisoners are not parasites on the State but contribute through productivity. But then, in this world nothing is ideal.

The system of Laogai does not conform to the western ideas of prison conditions, legal system and human rights.

But then China is not the West; even if some Chinese feel aping the West means that they have 'arrived'.

What is good for China, the Communist Party will do.

And I am sure they don't care what others may feel about them.
 

huaxia rox

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laogai system is not a caste kind system which is tempory not something goes for ever.....within at most 2 decades there will be no laogai for sure....
 

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laogai system is not a caste kind system which is tempory not something goes for ever.....within at most 2 decades there will be no laogai for sure....
Isn't it obvious that Laogai is not caste based.

Princelings are caste based - only card carrying Commies in that caste.

In two decades Laogai will vanish?

Why is it some magicians illusion that can vanish?

Are you suggesting that Communism will vanish?

Has the Danwei system or the Hukou system vanished?

Or is your contention that embarrassing issues will vanish just because that is the easy way to weasel out of a knotty situation by giving short shrift to facts, reality and realpolitik?
 

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If you are worse, don't judge others.

But we don't like to be judged by people from a country worse than China.

----------------------------------

I like to judge others based on their history and no body can stop it that is a fact.
 

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