Pak-Russia talks on delivery of Su-35, Mi-35s underway: Russian Deputy FM

[bose]

With the changing geo-political climate and the developments in the Indian Ocean, PAF needs range with greater payload. Currently only J-11D or Su-35 can fullfil the requirements.

Interesting times ahead.

The problem with such fighters is that they are huge in size and where will Pakistan hides those fighters ?? Pakistan does not have the strategic depth like India or China...Those fighters also require logistical support mechanism such as dedicated air bases, maintenance units which is very costly to maintain...

Darro nahi, shubh shubh khwab dekho

ok got it... now days I am spending lot of time watching Pak media analysis on geo politics and it is a good time pass for me... India bashing season has come it seems... I am a scared man nowadays with so much dhamki of use of nukes... It is clear that Pakistanis does not understand Indian and only knows about Chanakya niti...

 

[Yumdoot]

My God you guys ran this up for 5 pages.

Sad that I could not join this le-le tomatino.

But some of you guys have provided good general fun for next 2 offdays.

Do you have any valid links to back this up? As far as I can see, all three branches of Armed forces are at the same level of indegenisation.

I think Navy has a better PR to get away with the imports it is having.

Do you realise that all three have different challenges, different budgets, different performances in actual wars, even different methods of dealing with budgetary constraints and completely different strategic utilities.

Would you rank two guy from different socio-economic background as similarly competent and facing a similar future if both of them land up in a Medical college at nearly the same ranking?

With the changing geo-political climate and the developments in the Indian Ocean, PAF needs range with greater payload. Currently only J-11D or Su-35 can fullfil the requirements.

Interesting times ahead.

Darro nahi, shubh shubh khwab dekho

I personally don't mind you guys buying Su30s from Russians. But where the hell are you guys going to fly these long ranged aircrafts. All of you Pakis sit in a thin strip of land most of which can be covered by something as sundry as a Prahaar/Pragati (given that Indian forces do not cross the border ).

Janab, aap log kahan udaa le jayoge is tai-yare ko. Don't you think its simply too big for your real needs. The only real but marginal benefit that I can see for you is that you will see our weapons/platforms, launched at you from 200 km instead of 100 km as at present.

 

[salute]

The knock from Russian Embasssy ended the Pakis wet dream of Acquiring Su.

Even if Pak wants...China wont let Pak buy Russian weapons..but sell Chinese Junk instead..
These Pakis have no choice but to bend over to China

yeah right, exactly,
@Neo
pakis cannot buy stuff without chinese husband permission or chinese gonna kick pakis butt so hard
pakis begs for free stuff from chinese giving excuse of poor paki economy,

but when talking to russians, pakis got cash money to buy russian aircrafts ???

 

[FRYCRY]

Army chief of Pakistan General Raheel Sharif visited Russia earlier this year, after which a draft contract was sent to Pakistan for new Mi-35M helicopters and Su-35 fighter jets.

http://www.thenewstribe.com/2015/09/10/russia-likely-to-give-mi-35m-su-35-to-pakistan/

su 35???!!!!!

 

[Blackwater]

I recall reporting it last year that PAF had shown interest in Su-35 and the Mi-35. The disbelief was immense and I was trolled.
Seems like Russians are eager to sell us lethal weapons.

Wo to theek ha bhai but who is paying ???[emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]

 

[hit&run]

If any of you have watched Russia Pakistan relationship then, it is quite visible that Pakistan has invested plenty of its energy and diplomatic resources to warm its relationship with Russia. They are literally hanging on their long coats, to get in good books. That can kind of persuasion can change anyone heart, then Russia sees it as an opportunity to get into new market, when India has started looking away from them.

I see it quite cowardly on Indians part who don't see it as a challenge that will make us better and give long due kick behind Indian policy makers who think weapon procurement is like fermenting wine; more it gets older (delayed) is better.

I see SU-35 flying in Pakistani airspace in next 5 years.

 

[The enlightened]

I see a lot of people angry at the Russians and I see a lot of relief and satisfaction at the embassies denial. Do people here have some form of selective amnesia?

the Russian leaders have stated at the highest level that Russia will never take any steps detrimental to the security and safety of our special and privileged strategic partner

http://www.india.com/news/india/will-not-take-any-step-detrimental-to-indias-securityrussia-544405/

Who the fuck are they kidding.

 

[Compersion]

when Pakistan had the military deals with Americans it was different because of the anchor of the India and Russia relationship. India took this and accepted this because it was dealing with Russia.

but when Pakistan deals with Russia it is totally different - Russia is still acceptable and doing business in India. but why. is it because America and others wants to do business with India. is it because America and others does not want to do business with Pakistan.

One is not looking and talking about the American and other (non-Russia, PRC and North Korea) doing business with Pakistan. Why Pakistan not looking at non-Russian equivalents. Pakistan is doing business with PRC more and more and whatever PRC and North Korea gets Pakistan will ask for the same.

but

history is important and Russia still remembers fondly how they was beaten and handed their balls by the Pakis in Afghanistan. If Russia was successful in Afghanistan they would have had access to South Asia and Middle East and that defeat led to major events in its history. even till today Russian prestige takes a hit because of what happened in Afghanistan because of Pakistan.

The Russia also remember what PRC did to them in 1970s. Which might be reason to say Russia is loosing its importance globally that it is cooperating with PRC even with what happened in the past. but that is shameful. Now there is also the massive Russian assistance in PRC military and space industry. But PRC already make many stuff on their own apparently. What Russia gain by alienating massive and huge markets. Is Russia playing a double game.

With that if India is doing business with non-Russian in military and Russia does business with Pakistan, PRC and North Korea. We ought to be confident in ourselves. We never treated Russian like the Pakis and PRC did and that is what is important. And i would like to believe Russia understand and knows that. But we want the best stuff out there. We also want to make our own stuff.

Would it be better if Russia deals with other states and not Pakistan -> Vietnam, Iran, Indonesia etc , etc . That is their call and we dont need to explain it to them the significance of selling small numbers on relationship and they have had examples to their own by the very ones the are doing business with now (Pakistan and PRC). not sure if they would prefer to have PRC, Pakistan and North Korea to be their safe havens.

Can Russia survive without doing business with Pakistan ? Will Russia suffer if they do not do business with Pakistan ? Will Russia suffer if they do business with Pakistan ...

 

[Screambowl]

Would it be better if Russia deals with other states and not Pakistan -> Vietnam, Iran, Indonesia etc , etc . That is their call and we dont need to explain it to them the significance of selling small numbers on relationship and they have had examples to their own by the very ones the are doing business with now (Pakistan and PRC). not sure if they would prefer to have PRC, Pakistan and North Korea to be their safe havens.

True, and Indonesia is getting the Su35.

 

[Compersion]

True, and Indonesia is getting the Su35.

I thought one would say why does not India finance on cheap terms some up-to-date SU-35 for Vietnam, Myanmar and Mongolia from Russia. Such number of aircraft to these would be much more to what Pakistan can manage and imagine. You know like how Paki gets gifts ...

 

[Screambowl]

I thought one would say why does not India finance on cheap terms some up-to-date SU-35 for Vietnam, Myanmar and Mongolia from Russia. Such number of aircraft to these would be much more to what Pakistan can manage and imagine. You know like how Paki gets gifts ...

India has already given 100 Million dollars credit to Vietnam. Plus Vietnam is willing to buy brahmos so most probably it will be at least discounted.

As for now, these countries have not shown interest I believe, because not just funding but technical support and maintenance is other thing which they would require. So even if India gives them credit it will take time for them to get ready for these aircrafts.

Plus there is priority list, so India is feeding their Navy may be airforce is second on the priority list.

 

[salute]

I see SU-35 flying in Pakistani airspace in next 5 years.

but then another question is even if pakis buy su 35, how many su 35 pakis can afford to buy from russia and maintain ???

russians not gonna give free lunch to pakis,russians wants money for their economy.

 

[Yumdoot]

May I come in, madam?

Yaar Pakis have got nukes from the Chinese and we could do nothing about that. Chinese have Sukhoi versions flying towards our north and we are ok with that. How much more difficult would it be to handle if the Pakis get a few Sukhois?

Have some perspective. Russians have helped both China and India arm themselves to keep the Americans from making both these countries a side-kick (err sorry ji, I meant 'Allies' ). Asia will willy-nilly gather up as a mega project since nearly everybody here hates to be under the thumb of the so called civilized-west. India has a choice - join in or be left behind or bitch-around like Pakis or have its own start-up venture.

Given our size we have reasonable chances on all 4 sides of this choice.

I would rather, that our choice is to strengthen ourselves so we cannot be destabilized and yet avoid being a bloody destabilizing force like Arabs, in the outside world. Have working relationship with all sides, esp. with Russians since that is a time tested relationship we have invested our time and money in.

Let the Pakis have some of these Sukhois. They bloody cannot afford very many. Additionally that will force the IAF to either go indigenous and deal with its rather stupid leadership .

 

[Mad Indian]

Do you realise that all three have different challenges, different budgets, different performances in actual wars, even different methods of dealing with budgetary constraints and completely different strategic utilities.

Would you rank two guy from different socio-economic background as similarly competent and facing a similar future if both of them land up in a Medical college at nearly the same ranking?

Are you stupid? Is that not what I said?

 

[blueblood]

People are making this an issue like Russia and India are teen BFFs, braiding each others hair. What is this, some cheapass teen drama on MTV? What part of the words "international relations" is too difficult to understand?

• Pakis are not going to buy Su-35. Doesn't fit well with their doctrine.
  
• Even if they wanted to, they cannot afford it.
• If they had money, they would have gone for J-10 not Su-35.
• Russia is free to follow its own interests. Nothing to bitch and moan about. This ain't a fucking teen drama.
  
• Stop being stupid and stop comparing Russia's relations with China to that with Pakistan. Not a zero sum game.
  
• Stop being stupid and stop comparing Russia's relations with China to that with India. Not a zero sum game.

And for crying out loud, lock this stupid thread based on rumours that were categorically denied.

@sob @pmaitra @LETHALFORCE

 

[Yumdoot]

Are you stupid? Is that not what I said?

More than happy to quote you. Again.

Do you have any valid links to back this up? As far as I can see, all three branches of Armed forces are at the same level of indegenisation.

I think Navy has a better PR to get away with the imports it is having.

As I said, NAvy has a better PR. That is all. All other things considered, all the three armed forces are at the same level of indiginisation achievement

IAF supported the LCA from its beginning.

LCA would not have happened without IAF support. IN only stepped in at the last moment. Crediting IN with LCA is highly disingenious and unfair for IAF. FOr example, AMCA , being developed by the ADA? is being supported by the IAF and IN is yet to express any interest in it so far. Instead IN is actually eyeing the F35 from what I gather. Does that Make IN traitors? Of course not. They have different force requirements and different objectives. That is all

The SSBN we are building wont even be the biggest in the world, nor will the Aircraft carriers. Compare that with an IAF project like FGFA which when complete will be the best fighter jet in the world . We are talking about a world class fighter jet against a medium sized vessel of the IN . I dont think it is fair to call IAF being less supportive of the indigenous weapons just for that now is it?

Also, if we can build AC and N subs, why is the IN buying scorpenes from France and also looking to buy more such subs from other countries? Does that mean IN is unpatriotic for suporting foreign maal now?

 

[The enlightened]

And for crying out loud, lock this stupid thread based on rumours that were categorically denied.

This is no rumour. Sputinik is an official propaganda website wholly owned by the Russian government.

 

[Mad Indian]

More than happy to quote you. Again.

Wow. So? To paraphrase you " different armed branches have different requirements and threat perceptions and strategic goals" and so one can't say navy is more supportive of indigenous equipment based on what is just visible. If you are too dumb to understand what I wrote- here is the expanded version. Navy's present requirements might be met by some domestic equipment and so might appear to be supportive of indigenization while IAF might need equipment better than what is available in the present day indigenous market and so it might appear as being favoring foreign arms. So it can't be taken as a bench mark. The armed forces support the indigenous weapons when they are satisfied with them and it is the same for all branches - army navy and airforce


Other than that, you are acting like a retard. Get help

 

[blueblood]

This is no rumour. Sputinik is an official propaganda website wholly owned by the Russian government.

Every Russian media outlet is influenced by Russian government one way or other. Not really surprising.

How many times did the same sources informed the Su-35 and S-400 buy by China? I wonder whatever happened to that.

 

[The enlightened]

Every Russian media outlet is influenced by Russian government one way or other. Not really surprising.

This is slightly more than that.

Sputnik is an international multimedia news service launched on 10 November 2014 by Rossiya Segodnya

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputnik_(news_agency)

Rossiya Segodnya (Russian: Россия Сегодня, tr.Rossíya Sevódnya; IPA: [rɐˈsʲijə sʲɪˈvodʲnʲə]) is an international news agency founded by a decree of the Russian President on 9 December 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiya_Segodnya

How many times did the same sources informed the Su-35 and S-400 buy by China? I wonder whatever happened to that.

Regardless. The intent matters. Pakistan may not be able to afford it but Chinks can and seeing as Chinki flanker still uses Russian engine, why not buy the all-weather friend a complete body as well. Might help them in the development of another phully indigenous J-1_ whateva.