Naval MRCA contest. Lockheed offers F-35 to IN

[enlightened1]

Same thing in today's Hindu
The Hindu : Business News : Indian Navy eyes newer generation aircraft

 

[Vladimir79]

India is already buying 45 MiG-29Ks. They must be confusing the MMRCA as an actual RFI for something else. India has already decided this one. That number is enough to staff the air wings of three of India's carriers along with the 40 navalised LCAs they want. Unless they never want LCA on a carrier, this is just bollocks.

 

[p2prada]

India is already buying 45 MiG-29Ks. They must be confusing the MMRCA as an actual RFI for something else. India has already decided this one. That number is enough to staff the air wings of three of India's carriers along with the 40 navalised LCAs they want. Unless they never want LCA on a carrier, this is just bollocks.

IN has a requirement for land based aircraft. Ones that can be used from a carrier if required. INS Kadamba will field 2 air strips IMO.

 

[Vladimir79]

IN has a requirement for land based aircraft. Ones that can be used from a carrier if required. INS Kadamba will field 2 air strips IMO.

Well, I wouldn't be too keen to take this article at face value. Just look at the poor content.

Both these carriers are being designed by Italy’s Fincantieri.

 

[icecoolben]

An eye opening post by prada. So, the axe won't fall on n-tejas even if indian navy orders 2 squadrans running into atleast 40 aircraft of there new generation aircraft. How much fighter planes can kadamba field or just how many squadrans?

I agree buying super hornet would really pack a punch as it has range, payload, life time, program maturity and a ew dedicated variants like growler with a future block3 upgrade. But,wouldn't buying more of foreign orgin planes along with mig-29k add to logistics head-ache of the navy, as along with maintenance facilities it has to field special aeronautical engineering personnel for maintenance of the fleet.
the article explicitly states than india is buying for its future carriers. With boeing going to the extent of performing computer simulations of take off and landing from cadd designed indigenous carrier, so in my own view this procurement is still a serious threat to n-tejas programme.

doesn't our air doctrine state that indian air force would be defending the shores as well, the task which has been delegated to su-30mki. Indian navy is allowed to perform surface aviation near shores only for recconasance and training.

 

[Yusuf]

rafales have fallen regularly during take off from the 40k displacement small super carrier charles de gaulle.

How many times has the Rafale "fallen" of the carrier?

So far only two incidents.

On 6 December 2007 a French Air Force twin-seat aircraft with a single occupant, on a training flight from the Saint-Dizier base, crashed in an uninhabited part of the Neuvic commune in the Correze area, with the loss of its pilot. This was the first loss of a Rafale. On 10 January 2008, on RTL, Minister of Defence Hervé Morin stated that the cause of the crash was "pilot disorientation".
On 24 September 2009 two French navy Rafales crashed into each other off Perpignan during exercises on the Charles de Gaulle.

None of these mentions any fighters falling off the the deck. And you mention it falling regularly as if they were nine pins.

And you dont want people to quote you or have any reference to your posts.

Now you think before posting.

 

[sandeepdg]

As Vlad mentioned, the number of MIG29Ks that we are receiving, it should
be enough for the Vikramaditya plus one IAC. I think the Navy chief quoted sometime back that IN will eventually have an air fleet of nearly 300 aircraft. That's obviously long term view, but i think for the time being we should concentrate on the N-LCAs after the 45 Mig 29Ks that we receive. Future options for aircraft should be the Super Hornet, Rafale, EF-2000 and the F-35.

 

[s_bman]

Same thing in today's Hindu
The Hindu : Business News : Indian Navy eyes newer generation aircraft

shouldn't this news be viewed with mmrca competition , as there would be only one winner and 5 competitors would be disappointed, super bug and rafale are the only ones that are available now to suit IN , one of them or both might not be winner of mmrca competition and this tender might be to pacify somebody :twizt:

 

[StealthSniper]

Hunt on for fighters for aircraft carriers

NEW DELHI: With the development of the naval version of the indigenous Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) floundering, the Navy has launched a
hunt for a new fighter to operate from its aircraft carriers in the pipeline.

Navy has issued an RFI (request for information) to several global aviation majors, including American Boeing, French Dassault and Russian MiG companies, for ‘an alternate deck-based aircraft’.

‘‘Information is being sought to acquire over 40 fighters for the 40,000-tonne IAC-I (indigenous aircraft carrier), being built at the Cochin shipyard and expected to roll out by 2014-2015 now, and IAC-II, which will follow later,’’ said a source.

As reported by TOI earlier, lack of long-term strategic planning has meant that the 28,000-tonne ageing carrier INS Viraat is fast running out of its Sea Harrier jump-jets, even as the first lot of MiG-29Ks for the 44,570-tonne Admiral Gorshkov will begin arriving in a few days but the carrier itself will come from Russia only in early-2013.

Apart from the 16 MiG-29Ks contracted along with Gorshkov’s refit in January 2004, India is also going to order 29 more MiG-29Ks for around $1.1 billion to operate them from both Gorshkov as well as IAC-I.

IAC-I was also supposed to operate the naval Tejas. ‘‘But now, Navy is also exploring other options for both IAC-I and II,’’ said the source.


Link:

Hunt on for fighters for aircraft carriers - India - The Times of India

 

[F-14]

i think that the F-18 Bug has a good chance in this due to the fact that India might be intrested in the Growler also

 

[Vladimir79]

Let's not forget that a navalised MiG-35 would not be hard to make. India did give an RFP from RAC-MiG so it would not be hard to imagine MiG-35K on Indian carrier decks. After recieving 45 MiG-29K, it would only be a logical conclusion to give commonality to the fleet. Lets look at the basics:

1) India already has license for RD-33(3)
2) $1 billion modernisation to 60+ MiG-29SMT ordered
3) $2 billion ordered 45 MiG-29K
4) MMRCA has a good chance to go MiG-35
5) Officials were scoping the RD-33MK factory
6) Dassualt already screwed India so forget Rafale
7) MiG is far more economical than any other contender

Lucky seven...

 

[F-14]

vlad sir a bit of a OT here how much commonality is there between the MiG-29K ,SMT and the MiG-35

 

[ppgj]

i think that the F-18 Bug has a good chance in this

but it is a catapulted takeoff. neither of indian ACs which will come online have that facility!!
is anything being modified?

due to the fact that India might be intrested in the Growler also

growlers are not even given to nato allies.

 

[F-14]

the Bug might be able to take off in a Short Take Off But Arrested Recovery mod
and the Grolwer lite might be given even the Aussies are jucing their bugs for the Growler lite upgrade

 

[venkat]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_QKkSf03VuFY/SxZ8a1_mZwI/AAAAAAAABPY/QXr8Q-kXJLM/s1600-h/DSC_0491.JPG

in this the russian red star is partially concealed on the vertical tail ? where as nausena in hindi is written on the aircraft. is it a second hand stuff?

 

[ppgj]

the Bug might be able to take off in a Short Take Off But Arrested Recovery mod

yes but the take off is catapult assisted. and you are right about the arrested recovery.

and the Grolwer lite might be given even the Aussies are jucing their bugs for the Growler lite upgrade

there is a proposal but doubt if they get it. any way-

A final decision on buying Growlers, including the jamming kit, is expected around 2012.

Australia Seeks Growler EA Fighter Variants | AVIATION WEEK

 

[Vladimir79]

vlad sir a bit of a OT here how much commonality is there between the MiG-29K ,SMT and the MiG-35

The only real difference between SMT and K are engines RD-33MK vs (s3) and the other associated naval landing gear and reinforcement. The MiG-35 has a whole set of upgraded avionics kit to centre around the Zhuk-AE, but it still retains the same engines and airframe as MiG-29K minus the quad-TVC controls. What I forsee happening is once RD-33(s3) is finished upgrading IAF to SMT, they can quickly switch to RD-33MK for MiG-35. The infrastructure will already be at HAL and paid for so buying anything else just becomes a waste of money.

 

[icecoolben]

How many planes would the second indigenous aircraft carrier be able operate?

Here's the latest bit of info on the second carrier of our navy

First indigenous aircraft carrier to be launched next year: Navy chief: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.

The article quotes the carrier would be
1.50k tons disp vs 40k,
2.steam catapult enabled take off(so angled deck, can operate 2 fighter at time i.e one taking off and other arrested after a small lag) vs one aircraft at a time stobar
3.must have more no of propulsion units since gas turbine powered presumably the same lm2500+ may be upto eight for enhanced speed, durability, steam catapult power requirement. But takes a toll on maintenance cost and labour though.
4. Early warning system could be the hawkeye e-2d
5.fighter on-board one foreign heavy twin engine fighter, complemented by single engine n-tejas(if its ready and made into a carrier version)

what eludes me is that a nimitz can carry only 90 fighters,for our carrier with nearly half the displacement as 45 planes does not make the correct number. Any way to determine the no of aircraft that could be onboard?

 

[Vladimir79]

but it is a catapulted takeoff. neither of indian ACs which will come online have that facility!!
is anything being modified?

You bring up a good point mate. The Super Bug was never designed to take off from a ski-ramp. Her fuel stores and weapons load would have to be drastically reduced to operate from such a ship. With that in mind, the cost of putting up a bomb-truck without being able to actually do that job well would be a complete waste of money.

 

[bhramos]

the minimum difference between the Mig-29K and Mig-35K is just Avionics and Big Back bone which carries extra internal fuel And 3D TVC.
their is noting new about Mig-35K as new gen fighter.
but getting more Mig-29K is simple and better offer,
anyway PAKFA will have Naval version by 2015.