Naval LCA Tejas

[Prashant12]

DRDO says CNS rejected LCA Navy MK1. Mk2 will be a different story. #AeroIndia2017

 

[Prashant12]

Dropping LCA naval variant defies logic: Niti Ayog member

BENGALURU: Indian Navy's decision to drop the naval version of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) defies logic, VK Saraswat, former chief of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and member, NITI Aayog said on Sunday.

Speaking at the Aero India International Seminar, he said, decisions like dropping LCA and statements like LCA navy is not serving Navy's requirements were without proper understanding. Calling the decision makers poorly informed, he said without faith country's self-reliance won't be possible.

In December, Admiral Sunil Lamba, Chief of Naval Staff had stated that LCA Navy doesn't have the capabilities Navy required. He said while Navy would continue to support manufacturing agencies in the ment of naval fighter aircraft, they would lookout for 57 multi-role fighters for its aircraft carriers from the global market. Swedish Saab's Gripen and US F-18 aircraft are already in the race for Navy's new requirement.

"When they projected Gripen as an alternative for LCA Navy, I was surprised. LCA MK2 (which is under development) and Gripen, as platforms have no difference. The GE F414 is powering both aircraft, so where is the question of low thrust?" Saraswat said.

Stating that many decisions by poorly informed decision makers defy logic, he said they indulge in bad-mouthing of indigenous projects without any technical background. "All that people, who are at the helm of the affairs, have done is bad mouth institutions which have done a wonderful job. Is this the approach to make ourselves self-reliant? Any number of Aero India(s) can take place, but unless you have conviction and faith in your own capabilities, you can't achieve self-reliance," he said.

However, he said that the way domestic manufacturers work needs to change. Arguing that both competitiveness and synergy between various agencies and private industries are essential, he said: "...We can't produce fifth or sixth generation aircraft with second generation manufacturing practices. It is essential we upgrade ourselves. The tendencies to keep private industries as untouchables will not work, and there has to be harmony between academia and industries," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...gic-niti-ayog-member/articleshow/57111768.cms

 

[kstriya]

Dropping LCA naval variant defies logic: Niti Ayog member

BENGALURU: Indian Navy's decision to drop the naval version of Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) defies logic, VK Saraswat, former chief of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) and member, NITI Aayog said on Sunday.

Speaking at the Aero India International Seminar, he said, decisions like dropping LCA and statements like LCA navy is not serving Navy's requirements were without proper understanding. Calling the decision makers poorly informed, he said without faith country's self-reliance won't be possible.

In December, Admiral Sunil Lamba, Chief of Naval Staff had stated that LCA Navy doesn't have the capabilities Navy required. He said while Navy would continue to support manufacturing agencies in the ment of naval fighter aircraft, they would lookout for 57 multi-role fighters for its aircraft carriers from the global market. Swedish Saab's Gripen and US F-18 aircraft are already in the race for Navy's new requirement.

"When they projected Gripen as an alternative for LCA Navy, I was surprised. LCA MK2 (which is under development) and Gripen, as platforms have no difference. The GE F414 is powering both aircraft, so where is the question of low thrust?" Saraswat said.

Stating that many decisions by poorly informed decision makers defy logic, he said they indulge in bad-mouthing of indigenous projects without any technical background. "All that people, who are at the helm of the affairs, have done is bad mouth institutions which have done a wonderful job. Is this the approach to make ourselves self-reliant? Any number of Aero India(s) can take place, but unless you have conviction and faith in your own capabilities, you can't achieve self-reliance," he said.

However, he said that the way domestic manufacturers work needs to change. Arguing that both competitiveness and synergy between various agencies and private industries are essential, he said: "...We can't produce fifth or sixth generation aircraft with second generation manufacturing practices. It is essential we upgrade ourselves. The tendencies to keep private industries as untouchables will not work, and there has to be harmony between academia and industries," he said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/dropping-lca-naval-variant-defies-logic-niti-ayog-member/articleshow/57111768.cms

If the IN has selected Grippen then CNS is in a very troubled situation. Naval LCA MK2 is the logical choice or Rafale. Rafale will eat out the naval budget so LCA MK2 is the only choice.

 

[Prashant12]

Teja Aims To Show Its Potential In Bengaluru

Fighter jet Tejas to be flown by Air Chief at Bengaluru air show tomorrow.

Highlights

1. Fighter jet Tejas to fly at Bengaluru air show, biggest in Asia
2. Air Force has ordered 83 of these for 55,000 crores
3. Navy rejected it, but is open to considering upgraded version

Tomorrow, India's first home-made warplane, the Tejas, will be shown off at the opening of Asia's largest air show in Bengaluru where foreign manufacturers like Lockheed Martin and Saab are also competing to land multi-billion dollar defence contracts.

The Tejas Light Combat Aircraft has been 33 years in the making. But one of the most criticized aviation projects in India has now crossed a series of developmental milestones and is being inducted into the Air Force. In November last year, the government ordered 83 improved Tejas MK 1A fighters for about 50,000 crores.

To prove the Tejas' stature, the Indian Air Force Chief, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa will fly the plane tomorrow. The Tejas was also part of the Republic Day fly-past this year, the first time the government cleared the flight of a single-engine fighter over Delhi's major Rajpath avenue in decades.

Test pilots at the National Flight Test Centre, which is working on increasing the operational capabilities expanding the flight envelope of the Tejas, have told NDTV that it is as easy to fly as the Mirage 2000, one of the frontline jets in service with the air force. Equipped with an Israeli air-to-air radar, the Tejas is now in the process of testing its ability to be refuelled mid-air, in the process doubling its operational range.

In December, the navy rejected the naval variant of the Tejas as being too heavy. That prompted the navy to issue a request last month for information on 57 foreign planes for its aircraft carriers. But NDTV has learnt that the navy is open to considering an updated version with a new engine that would make the Tejas capable of carrying a reasonable load of missiles and other weaponry while deployed on aircraft carriers.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/home...-be-flown-by-air-force-chief-tomorrow-1659062

 

[archie]

is this navy's rejection have anything to do with axing/Delay of Mk2 which might not fit in with the plans ??

 

[abingdonboy]

Teja Aims To Show Its Potential In Bengaluru

Fighter jet Tejas to be flown by Air Chief at Bengaluru air show tomorrow.

Highlights

1. Fighter jet Tejas to fly at Bengaluru air show, biggest in Asia
2. Air Force has ordered 83 of these for 55,000 crores
3. Navy rejected it, but is open to considering upgraded version

Tomorrow, India's first home-made warplane, the Tejas, will be shown off at the opening of Asia's largest air show in Bengaluru where foreign manufacturers like Lockheed Martin and Saab are also competing to land multi-billion dollar defence contracts.

The Tejas Light Combat Aircraft has been 33 years in the making. But one of the most criticized aviation projects in India has now crossed a series of developmental milestones and is being inducted into the Air Force. In November last year, the government ordered 83 improved Tejas MK 1A fighters for about 50,000 crores.

To prove the Tejas' stature, the Indian Air Force Chief, Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa will fly the plane tomorrow. The Tejas was also part of the Republic Day fly-past this year, the first time the government cleared the flight of a single-engine fighter over Delhi's major Rajpath avenue in decades.

Test pilots at the National Flight Test Centre, which is working on increasing the operational capabilities expanding the flight envelope of the Tejas, have told NDTV that it is as easy to fly as the Mirage 2000, one of the frontline jets in service with the air force. Equipped with an Israeli air-to-air radar, the Tejas is now in the process of testing its ability to be refuelled mid-air, in the process doubling its operational range.

In December, the navy rejected the naval variant of the Tejas as being too heavy. That prompted the navy to issue a request last month for information on 57 foreign planes for its aircraft carriers. But NDTV has learnt that the navy is open to considering an updated version with a new engine that would make the Tejas capable of carrying a reasonable load of missiles and other weaponry while deployed on aircraft carriers.

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/home...-be-flown-by-air-force-chief-tomorrow-1659062

F*ck the Indian media and f*ck NDTV for presenting this news in this way, anyone that has followed the LCA even remotely knows that the N-LCA Mk.1 was ALWAYS a tech demonstrator project (to understand, validate and test arrested landing, "hard" landings, restrainted take offs, short take offs and operations at sea level), the N-LCA Mk.2 was ALWAYS the model the IN wanted.

Now the media is taking the facts and twisting it into; "IN rejects N-LCA, is open to an updated variant"


It leaves a very bad taste in the mouth that it is the Indian media that has reported this, it smells like propoganda at the behest of someone.....

 

[Hari Sud]

I found this article today about LCA Tejas

Navy's rejection of Tejas is a lesson, failure of DRDO

• Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA) by the Indian Navy seems to have surprised most navy-watching analysts. Their confusion has been compounded by the near-simultaneous issuance of a global request for information (RFI) for procurement of "57 multirole fighters for its aircraft carriers" by Naval HQ.
  
  One can deduce two compelling reasons for this, seemingly, radical volte face by the only service which has shown unswerving commitment to indigenisation (lately labelled 'Make in India') for the past six decades.
  Firstly, by exercising a foreclosure option, the navy has administered a well-deserved and stinging rebuke to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) for its lethargic and inept performance that has again disappointed our military. The second reason arises from the navy's desperate hurry to freeze the specifications of its second indigenous aircraft carrier (IAC-2). The choice of configuration, size and propulsion of a carrier has a direct linkage with the type of aircraft that will operate from it. This constitutes a "chicken and egg" conundrum -- should one freeze the carrier design first or choose the aircraft first? The Indian Navy has obviously decided the latter.
  
  The IAC-2 will enter service in the next decade, at a juncture where a balance-of-power struggle is likely to be underway in this part of the world -- with China and India as the main players. It is only a matter of time before China's carrier task-forces, led by the ex-Russian carrier Liaoning and her successors, follow its nuclear submarines into the Indian Ocean. Since the Indian response to such intimidation will need to be equally robust, the decisions relating to the design and capabilities of IAC-2 (and sisters) assume strategic dimensions. Essentially, there are three options for selection of aircraft for the IAC-2.
  
  * Conventional take-off and landing types like the US F/A-18 Super Hornet and French Rafale-M that would require a steam catapult for launch and arrester-wires for recovery. The relatively large ship would need either a steam or nuclear plant for propulsion.
  
  * Types like the Russian Sukhoi-33 and MiG-29K would require only a ski-jump for take-off and arrester-wires for landing. This would mean a smaller ship, driven either by gas turbines or diesel engines. The LCA (Navy) could have been a contender in this category.
  
  * The F-35B Lightning II version of the US Joint Strike Fighter, capable of vectored-thrust, would require only a ski-jump for take-off, but no arrester wires since it can land vertically. This would result in the simplest and cheapest ship; a short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) carrier.
  
  Once the navy has selected an aircraft, the ship and its operating and maintenance facilities can be designed around it, avoiding some of the pitfalls encountered on IAC-1.
  
  Reverting to the LCA saga -- as far back as the early 1990s, the navy had initiated a study for examining the feasibility of adapting the LCA to shipborne use. While confirming feasibility, the study had revealed some major problem areas, which included lack of engine thrust, requirement of an arrester hook and stronger undercarriage, and need for cockpit/fuselage re-design before the LCA could attempt carrier operations. Undaunted, the navy re-affirmed its faith in the programme by contributing over Rs 400 crore as well as engineers and test pilots to the project.
  
  The IAF accepted the Tejas into service, in July 2016, with considerable reservations because it had not been cleared for full operational exploitation and fell short of many qualitative requirements. The prototype LCA (Navy) had rolled out six years earlier, in July 2010, raising great hopes. However, it is obvious that the DRDO failed to address the problems listed above with any urgency, leading to ultimate rejection of this ambitious project.
  
  By its failure to deliver on the LCA (Navy), the DRDO has let down its most steadfast supporter amongst the armed forces -- the Indian Navy. A little introspection by those at the helm of this organisation would reveal to them three reasons for its abysmal performance despite a wealth of talent and a network of sophisticated laboratories -- an exaggerated opinion of their capabilities; a lack of intellectual honesty in denying obvious failures and an unwillingness to seek external help when required.
  
  Today, India has the ignominious distinction of being the world's biggest importer of military hardware, whereas China counts amongst the world's leading arms exporters and its aeronautical establishment has delivered aircraft ranging from UAVs to 5th generation fighters, helicopters and transports to the PLA.
  
  While one would be justified in blaming the scientists and bureaucrats responsible for defence research and production, the root cause of this colossal failure lies in political indifference and the inability to provide vision and firm guidance to our massive but under-performing military-industrial complex.
  
  (Admiral Arun Prakash (Retd) is a former chief of the Indian Navy. The article is in special arrangement with South Asia Monitor/www.southasiamonitor.org)

• Reference :-
• http://www.ecoti.in/F4cSgZ

There are quite a few fallacies in this paper of the retired Admiral. It was during his tenure that MIG 29k Naval was selected for the newest carrier being acquired from Russia. It turned to be half price refurbished deal (forget the initial refurbishing cost of peanuts) for the Russian AC only if you buy the MIG 29K also. This India agreed and Admiral Arun Prakash was part of the deal. At that time no ski jump fighter for the AC was available. Even the Russians had not used anything on AC hence had little experience.

For the above circumstances Naval LCA would have sufficed. Then again LCA was not developed for the Navy. It was for the Airforce. Should this be modified for naval use, then well and good. Now they have loudly rejected it. No big deal for DRDO as they are busy building and modifying it for the Airforce.

Where does this lead Indian Navy to.

I would say, nowhere.

There are no ski jump type of naval fighters in the world for a smaller carrier of the type IAC -2 is being built. Gripen is still on the drawing board. Rafale and F-18 require a steam catapult. That means a bigger carrier. F35 is still in the range of $100 to $150 million range with infrastructure as extra.

What a delima?

Is there a way out of this situation.

Yes, there is - that go back to LCA- Naval. Participate with DRDO to improve the LCA to cut its weight, may be the newer LCA-MK2 may be what the navy is looking for.

So, Indian Navy - simmer down. Or advise the tax payers to add $4 billion more to already agreed, to build a bigger carrier so that a steam catapult could be accommodated. The newer technology of magnetic carrier launch is a nice dream which IN is having. It is too proprietary technology which US will not let go easily. But if they do, it will be a hefty price.

 

[abingdonboy]

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[abingdonboy]

N-LCA (Mk.1):

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[abingdonboy]

Airforce variant LCA Tejas parked next to a N-LCA Mk.1:

 

[kunal1123]

what this mean for lca mk 2..........................

 

[Prashant12]

LCA-Navy has full support

Further, notwithstanding the Indian Navy's rejection of the LCA-Navy, Parrikar allayed fears of the project being shut down. "The Navy is thoroughly supporting the project. In fact, the second line of the LCA production, which has been approved at a cost of Rs 1,359 crore will have Navy's contribution too."

The Navy will be contributing 25% of the cost, while the IAF will be contributing another 25% and HAL will put in the other 50%, as TOI had reported earlier. Presently HAL can make eight aircraft a year and this line, once functional will be able to make eight more per year.

However, this line will become the third line for LCA with HAL already having converted its old Kiran hangar to expedite production given the demand. The clearance for the line Parrikar spoke about got the clearance of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) only last week.

"It is wrong to say the Navy does not support the LCA ...You are being misinformed by an internal lobby," he said.

Conceding that the fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) India is developing with Russia has some unresolved issues, Parrikar said: "A small team has been created to deal with these issues (pertaining to manufacturing, how the exports will be done, other approvals and so on) and we are confident of resolving them."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...cos-manohar-parrikar/articleshow/57147448.cms

 

[ezsasa]

LCA-Navy has full support

Further, notwithstanding the Indian Navy's rejection of the LCA-Navy, Parrikar allayed fears of the project being shut down. "The Navy is thoroughly supporting the project. In fact, the second line of the LCA production, which has been approved at a cost of Rs 1,359 crore will have Navy's contribution too."

The Navy will be contributing 25% of the cost, while the IAF will be contributing another 25% and HAL will put in the other 50%, as TOI had reported earlier. Presently HAL can make eight aircraft a year and this line, once functional will be able to make eight more per year.

However, this line will become the third line for LCA with HAL already having converted its old Kiran hangar to expedite production given the demand. The clearance for the line Parrikar spoke about got the clearance of the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) only last week.

"It is wrong to say the Navy does not support the LCA ...You are being misinformed by an internal lobby," he said.

Conceding that the fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) India is developing with Russia has some unresolved issues, Parrikar said: "A small team has been created to deal with these issues (pertaining to manufacturing, how the exports will be done, other approvals and so on) and we are confident of resolving them."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...cos-manohar-parrikar/articleshow/57147448.cms

The last paragraph. They are already planning for exports of FGFA, that's quite a leap. Interesting!!!

 

[abingdonboy]

Why was the naval version rejected?

It wasn't. The N-LCA was always meant to be a tech demonstrator, the IN has not rejected anything.

 

[lcafanboy]

The Kaveri will have almost 100kn wet trust itself though, a twin engined version only offering 14% more thrust doesn't really make much sense.

IT is not with thrust it is because of IN's new RFI that it wants only twin engined Fighters for carrier operations.

 

[lcafanboy]

3030303000000000000000000

 

[abingdonboy]

3030303000000000000000000

* N-LCA mk.1, IN is already invested in the N-LCA Mk.2

 

[PD_Solo]

Why was the naval version rejected?

Navy never rejected N-LCA.Who said that ?

Its just a TD on which designers tested requirements like ski jump take off ,arrested landing and some other refining required for shore/AC based operations.

Its was just that it couldn't take off with a specific payload capacity from AC which IN want as of now.They are also showing more interest in twin engine aircrafts.

But Navy is sure interested in the next upgrade.Hope it delivers as per wish.

And never believe in some fanboy assumption or twisted news unless it comes from horse's mouth.

Sent from my XT1562 using Tapatalk

 

[Scrutator]

Here is an stupid question..
In the above pic we can see LCA navy with a centre line drop tank while airforce LCA carries them on pylon.

Now I have yet to see a pic of airforce LCA in which all pylons plus centre line is loaded. May be I missed such pics but if not then why is mostly center line is left empty with airforce LCA???

The airforce version can also carry a drop tank on center pylon, but a smaller one. Its because the ground clearance of airforce version is smaller than that of the Navy aircraft

 

[lcafanboy]

Interesting canopy and chin on LCA Navy Mk2. Something interesting is cooking.