Nag anti-tank Missile

[Chinmoy]

Can you give me more details about NAMICA? Can the entire 20 ton vehicle fire just 8 missiles in total? Or is there a reload option available after 8 missiles are fired?

It could fire 8 missile at a time and does have 4 more as reload option.

 

[Armand2REP]

Once I learned it was Spike MR, the point was lost.

Not really in a sense. NAG has been designed form day one as a system which would work from a platform. It means, it is more effective in ATGM role in comparison to any other MANPATGM. It is simply designed to carry out offensive role in battle field unlike SPIKE or JAVELIN.
Now in an advancing column which one is better suited? A NAMICA which could fire 8 ATGM without reload or a mounted SPIKE on other light vehicle which would need reload after each shot?
SPIKE does hold its edge on bunker busting warfare, whereas NAG on NAMICA does hold its edge on open field warfare or raid on marching column. Its all about deployment.

 

[Armand2REP]

You forgot to mention one basic but most important component of any MANPATGM, CLU. NAG has seeker, but to make it an effective MANPATGM like SPIKE or JAVELIN or any thing else, you need a equally good CLU. Now miniaturizing the CLU is a tough nut to crack.
But with evolving CLGM, we might see work done on that front.

Is that why they chose the BMP-2? I would have thought a lighter wheeled chassis would have been better.

 

[Chinmoy]

Is that why they chose the BMP-2? I would have thought a lighter wheeled chassis would have been better.

BMP is the best amphibious vehicle we had at the time of inception. It has been selected for its all terrain movement capability.

 

[ezsasa]

That is where SPIKE-MR ToT comes in. I am not sure if we will ever get SMAW type shoulder launch ATGM with 0.5-1 km range. That will be very hard

Saar!!! What's with your over expectations?

There are threads here at DFI about nag from 2011-13 talking about trails of NAG.

Poor chaps at DRDO finally managed to finish user trails after so many years, and here you are going into next two three versions in a span of week.

Chill Saar!!! All is well and much progress has been made.

 

[Vijyes]

BMP is the best amphibious vehicle we had at the time of inception. It has been selected for its all terrain movement capability.

Using a 13 ton vehicle to fire a measly 12 missile ks a big waste. Either the number of missiles should be increased to 30 or a lighter vehicle must be used

Saar!!! What's with your over expectations?

There are threads here at DFI about nag from 2011-13 talking about trails of NAG.

Poor chaps at DRDO finally managed to finish user trails after so many years, and here you are going into next two three versions in a span of week.

Chill Saar!!! All is well and much progress has been made.

Don't forget that pakistan has Anza stinger missile while India does not have a stinger missile. It is a damn shame that India does not have it

 

[Chinmoy]

Using a 13 ton vehicle to fire a measly 12 missile ks a big waste. Either the number of missiles should be increased to 30 or a lighter vehicle must be used

Give me one example of a vehicle which have amphibious capability of BMP chassis and as versatile as it. 12 missile alone would weight 540 kg. Now double that weight and you would have weight penalty, because its not only the missile we are talking about, but launcher, reloader and Controller as a package. Add the operator and driver to that.
Moreover we have modified the BMP chassis for this purpose, not used the whole chassis as it is.

Don't forget that pakistan has Anza stinger missile while India does not have a stinger missile. It is a damn shame that India does not have it

I think we were talking about MANPATGM here. ANZA is an MANPAD. Pakistan does use HJ-8 system instead. NAG and NAMICA could be compared with HJ-10 in neighborhood.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

IA choice of BMP-2 make scene as Mech forces also use this vehicle in mass and their is no spare & logistical issues, NAG carrier will be part of mech forces only, BMP-2 has many variants more than any other on this globe, due to this very reason ..

Indian Modifications :

BMP-2K licensed produced by OFB

BMP 81mm mortar carrier

BMP based tracked ambulance with AC and has swimming capabilities

BMP based armored dozer

BMP based command and control vehicle

BMP based Armour recovery vehicle

======================

I have posted the vehicles which are in service ( I have not included NAMICA in the list as it will be in service and not as of now ), Their are total 16 variation i can count at the moment ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

A lot of people question what is the purpose of NAG ANTI-TANK system and what it will replace ..

DRDO NAMICA - ATGM launcher vehicle with 6 NAG 'lock-on before launch' top attack missiles, The command to lock on to a tank is then passed onto the seeker through an uplink mid-flight by gunner. After that, the missile homes in onto the target and destroys it. It is equipped with a thermal imager for target acquisition, The carriers are capable of carrying 12 missiles with 6 in ready-to-fire mode

SPANDREL 9P148 "Konkurs" – ATGM launcher vehicle with 5 wire-guided 9M113 "Konkurs" (AT-5 Spandrel). The crew reloads the launcher through a small hatch located behind it. The gunner controls the missiles through a sight mounted on the front right of the vehicle. The 9P148 can carry a total of 10 9M111 and 10 9M113 or 14 9M113.

A lot of people don`t know that Army use SPANDREL 9P148 "Konkurs" in mech forces, This system is complete foreign and every spares of the vehicle ( BMP-2 on other hand is lisence produce so does plenty of spares produced at HVF ) and missile is imported, NAMICA is intended to replace this foreign system and is ahead of it in every parameter let it be.

1. Technology
2. Destruction & firepower
3. Mobility
4. Availability
5. Combat Range Of Vehicle

NAMICA despite its technological superiority and size, Will be cheaper than SPANDREL 9P148 "Konkurs" system & Due its platform which is common in mech forces the logistics will be a plus point ..

@Vinod DX9

 

[patriots]

according to live fist

Helina is at least two years away from proving itself on the Rudra's launchers.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/09/indias-rudras-back-in-sight-still-awaiting-missiles.html

 

[Vijyes]

A lot of people question what is the purpose of NAG ANTI-TANK system and what it will replace ..

A lot of people don`t know that Army use SPANDREL 9P148 "Konkurs" in mech forces, This system is complete foreign and every spares of the vehicle ( BMP-2 on other hand is lisence produce so does plenty of spares produced at HVF ) and missile is imported, NAMICA is intended to replace this foreign system and is ahead of it in every parameter let it be.

1. Technology
2. Destruction & firepower
3. Mobility
4. Availability
5. Combat Range Of Vehicle

NAMICA despite its technological superiority and size, Will be cheaper than SPANDREL 9P148 "Konkurs" system & Due its platform which is common in mech forces the logistics will be a plus point ..

@Vinod DX9

9P148 uses BRDM which is a 7 ton vehicle. I am not against BMP. I am just saying that an indigenous vehicle of 7-8 tons would be far better than 13-14 ton BMP. The number of NAG used is 12 which is 12x45kg = roughly 600kg.

I am saying that the number of NAG carried should be increased to 20+ for a 13 ton vehicle to be justified. Otherwise, why make things clumsier. Lighter vehicles move much faster and farther (fuel efficient). The FICV type carrier type NAG launch vehicle would be more 'convenient' is what I am suggesting for carrying 12 NAGs

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Army see the logistics and supply, commonality of spares is a priority ..

9P148 uses BRDM which is a 7 ton vehicle. I am not against BMP. I am just saying that an indigenous vehicle of 7-8 tons would be far better than 13-14 ton BMP. The number of NAG used is 12 which is 12x45kg = roughly 600kg.

I am saying that the number of NAG carried should be increased to 20+ for a 13 ton vehicle to be justified. Otherwise, why make things clumsier. Lighter vehicles move much faster and farther (fuel efficient).s

 

[Armand2REP]

9P148 uses BRDM which is a 7 ton vehicle. I am not against BMP. I am just saying that an indigenous vehicle of 7-8 tons would be far better than 13-14 ton BMP. The number of NAG used is 12 which is 12x45kg = roughly 600kg.

I am saying that the number of NAG carried should be increased to 20+ for a 13 ton vehicle to be justified. Otherwise, why make things clumsier. Lighter vehicles move much faster and farther (fuel efficient). The FICV type carrier type NAG launch vehicle would be more 'convenient' is what I am suggesting for carrying 12 NAGs

Even the DRDO Armoured Ambulance is based on BMP-2. If a colonel orders a pizza, it is delivered in BMP-2.

 

[Chinmoy]

9P148 uses BRDM which is a 7 ton vehicle. I am not against BMP. I am just saying that an indigenous vehicle of 7-8 tons would be far better than 13-14 ton BMP. The number of NAG used is 12 which is 12x45kg = roughly 600kg.

I am saying that the number of NAG carried should be increased to 20+ for a 13 ton vehicle to be justified. Otherwise, why make things clumsier. Lighter vehicles move much faster and farther (fuel efficient). The FICV type carrier type NAG launch vehicle would be more 'convenient' is what I am suggesting for carrying 12 NAGs

Is FICV ready? Is Kestrel doing rounds on ground?
If not BMP, then what is the second best option we have at the time of inception of NAMICA or still have? Let me give two other examples other then NAMICA.

Which one of these you think is better suited for strike role for India? I don't see the light weight Jeep coming anywhere near to what IA has envisioned NAMICA to be.

And 20+ missile is too much to ask for in current scenario. May be a double load i.e, 16 is logical enough.

 

[Vijyes]

This news says that the thermal sensors are imported from Rafael and Thales as the Indian sensors are not upto the mark yet. The tone of the article makes it appear to be a sketchy propaganda but I am not sure:

https://www.defensenews.com/land/20...s-before-ordering-homemade-anti-tank-missile/

 

[Adioz]

9P148 uses BRDM which is a 7 ton vehicle. I am not against BMP. I am just saying that an indigenous vehicle of 7-8 tons would be far better than 13-14 ton BMP. The number of NAG used is 12 which is 12x45kg = roughly 600kg.

I am saying that the number of NAG carried should be increased to 20+ for a 13 ton vehicle to be justified. Otherwise, why make things clumsier. Lighter vehicles move much faster and farther (fuel efficient). The FICV type carrier type NAG launch vehicle would be more 'convenient' is what I am suggesting for carrying 12 NAGs

BRDM is a 7 ton vehicle, but it is also grossly outdated. If it is replaced, it would be with the Kestrel which weighs 25 tons, which is at par with any modern APC/IFV. These will serve in the recce role for their Armoured Brigade, so they need to be well-protected. IMHO, their job is not to outmaneuver/ flank the enemy, rather it is to probe the enemy. Mobility is secondary to protection in this case.

This news says that the thermal sensors are imported from Rafael and Thales as the Indian sensors are not upto the mark yet. The tone of the article makes it appear to be a sketchy propaganda but I am not sure:

https://www.defensenews.com/land/20...s-before-ordering-homemade-anti-tank-missile/

Nonsense article. The idiot journo, whoever he is, tried to insinuate that Spike deal was struck because Nag was not ready. Spike is meant for a different role and for different units. Some foreign arms dealer paid him $$$ to write this propaganda IMO.

 

[Chinmoy]

This news says that the thermal sensors are imported from Rafael and Thales as the Indian sensors are not upto the mark yet. The tone of the article makes it appear to be a sketchy propaganda but I am not sure:

https://www.defensenews.com/land/20...s-before-ordering-homemade-anti-tank-missile/

First its ABM shield from US, then the drama of HAL sitting idle because of lack of any further order of LCA, now this. This guy is seriously making a joke of himself off late.

 

[Adioz]

First its ABM shield from US, then the drama of HAL sitting idle because of lack of any further order of LCA, now this. This guy is seriously making a joke of himself off late.

Its the same guy?

We need a place on the internet where we can take these presstitutes and hold their feet to the fire. We need to expose these jidiots. Can we file a case of misuse of powers or something else against such blatant liars?

 

[Chinmoy]

Its the same guy?

We need a place on the internet where we can take these presstitutes and hold their feet to the fire. We need to expose these jidiots. Can we file a case of misuse of powers or something else against such blatant liars?

Another case would be filed against you for trying to strangulate the voice of freedom and free speech. Moreover a murder case might also be lodged against you since you have tried to kill the voice of press.

 

[Prashant12]

Ministry of Defence scraps $500-million Israeli missile deal, wants DRDO to make in India

The deal, seen as another proof of growing Indo-Israel defence cooperation, was expected to be signed after price negotiations with Rafael Advanced Defence Systems of Israel were completed last year.

ASKING THE Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to indigenously develop and produce a Man-Portable Anti-Tank Guided Missile (MPATGM) for the Army, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has decided to cancel the $500 million deal for Spike ATGM with Israel. The deal, seen as another proof of growing Indo-Israel defence cooperation, was expected to be signed after price negotiations with Rafael Advanced Defence Systems of Israel were completed last year.

In anticipation of this deal, Rafael had entered into a joint venture with Kalyani group for missile production in India. The missile sub-systems manufacturing facility, based near Hyderabad, was inaugurated in August.

Ministry sources told The Indian Express that the decision to cancel the deal was based on the consideration that importing a foreign ATGM at this stage would adversely impact the programme for indigenous development of the weapon system by DRDO. Earlier, India had also rejected an offer from US-based Raytheon-Lockheed Martin for Javelin ATGM in favour of the Israeli weapon system.

“DRDO has successfully produced the Nag and Anamika ATGMs. It is confident about providing the Army with an MPATGM of 3rd generation missile technology, at par with Spike, within three to four years. It won’t also need any transfer of technology,” sources said.

Also Read: India clears Rs 17,000 crore missile deal with Israel

The decision to retract the Request for Proposal (RFP), however, will be a setback to the modernisation programme of the Army. In letters to the MoD, the Army headquarters had highlighted “the operational urgency of the equipment”, arguing that the Spike “gives a major capability impetus to troops deployed on the Line of Control, especially in the current operational scenario”.

Spike MR missile is a 3rd generation, fire and forget, top attack, ATGM with a range of 2.5 km, which can operate both during the day and night. The Army is currently using 2nd generation ATGMs — Konkurs and Milan 2T — which do not have night-fighting capabilities. Moreover, the Army currently has a shortage of around 68,000 missiles, with no missiles held as War Wastage Reserves against a government stipulation to build up stocks to last for at least 10 days of intense fighting.

In 2009, the MoD accepted the requirement of buying 321 ATGM launchers and 8,356 missiles, with 30 per cent offsets and a transfer of technology clause. An option of approaching the US for buying Javelin ATGM was also explored, but the US government was not amenable to transfer of technology. Only Rafael of Israel responded, and Spike missiles underwent trials in 2011-12. The ministry accepted the trial evaluation in 2013 and gave clearance for procuring from a single vendor. The US government later tried to offer the Javelin ATGM with transfer of technology but India chose to go ahead with the Israeli system.

Ministry sources said that trials highlighted a problem with one of the two homing devices in the launcher which led to constitution of a study group. The study group presented its report in August 2014, and the ministry agreed in October 2014 to procure the missiles from Rafael.

Price negotiations between Rafael and the MoD started in March 2015. After the prices were finalised in June 2016, then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar constituted an experts committee to review the evaluation report and explore the possibility of an indigenous missile system. There was divergence in the views of the DRDO representatives and Army representatives in the experts committee over the case. The matter was eventually resolved earlier this month with Army headquarters agreeing to retract the RFP for ATGM launchers and missiles.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ile-deal-wants-drdo-to-make-in-india-4945571/