MRCA news and dicussions Part III

[Zoravar]

Means Mig-35 prolly went through,my guess was correct.lol.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Retracting a bit lastest on Leh test now claim only the MIG and SH passed the test?? so zoravor your guess is right if true??

 

[Zoravar]

Honestly did Sh pass?That was the last one i expected to pass.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Honestly did Sh pass?That was the last one i expected to pass.

This suprised me as well, it is still a rumor but they said the SH thrust may have made the difference??

 

[Solid Beast]

In my very own opinion I don't think it is applicable at this time to comment on the cold weather testing without any background information and the total context of the scenario these aircraft were placed in. There are certain modifications and maintenance related adjustments your flight mechs and techs do and it is possible these aircraft were thrown headlong into the testing in an initial phase. Or they possibly could be rumors. I would not hinge the competition off of this bit of news. I don't even want to guess what aircraft passed because you really can not tell.

 

[Solid Beast]

What I am willing to share is who I think will win this competition eventually. Dassault Rafale. It's not a personal choice, it's just a hunch I've had ever since Kargil.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

What I am willing to share is who I think will win this competition eventually. Dassault Rafale. It's not a personal choice, it's just a hunch I've had ever since Kargil.

SB I like the Rafele too and I am wondering why Rafele would not do well at LEH if Mirages have performed well at high altitudes??

 

[Solid Beast]

SB I like the Rafele too and I am wondering why Rafele would not do well at LEH if Mirages have performed well at high altitudes??

LF I completely understand your admiration for the Rafale.

As for all the variables that can go wrong in high altitude testing, it's literally mind boggling, you can probably write a 200 page report on it (which I am sure IAF is doing at the moment). But one factor could be the type of fuel utilized, and how efficient this is burned at higher altitudes going up with a full load with respect to each specific engine. Currently Jet A and and A-1 are used. Jet A is only used in the US and has better tolerance to adverse temperature/altitude and is safer to handle. There is also Jet B which is best suited for extreme temperature , high altitude flying but it is very dangerous to handle. This is just one small variable and it easily can be the defining factor in testing phase. Some aircraft will not be able to use full afterburner above a certain altitude while others will be able to. It depends not only on the engines but fuel type as well. I am sure IAF is noting all the differences.

PS - I gave you the civilian equivalent jet fuel because I am not sure which aircraft use which military spec fuel off the top of my head. I am sure it is different for almost each aircraft, I just know the qualities of fuel that goes into mostly American aircraft. Historically they've been the difference between a good and legendary platform. SR-71 blackbird had specific fuel designed for high altitude intense temperature situations.

Specifically relating to Rafale, I am not sure why they would not perform better than Mirage 2K, could be fuel and engine related or possibly composite sensitive equipment not working well in this environment. But then again we don't know if they weren't able to perform properly at high altitude.

 

[gogbot]

I just realised something, with all the talk about the EF Typoon and Super hornet.

and the Tests at Leh ,

WE totally forgot to observe this from the LCA engine standpoint.
No doubt the results of the trials at Leh where both teh GE-414 and EJ-2000 were put to the test, Would have been followed very strongly by the HAL and IAF for thr LCA engine.

We should consider the possibility that one of the engines may have failed, or even both. Putting a wrench in the plans for the LCA-MK2 .

I hope to whatere , that at least the SH of EF, mange t pull of a successful flight

 

[Agantrope]

From ***** source:

Only EF and MiG-35 passed the test in the Leh field. Atleast 3 of 4 AC choked (faced problem) when military thrust was activated.

So as per my calculations, SH already had it own problem in airframe cracking, so when operated from Leh, th chances will be very high to develop serious cracks in the airframe. So SH have remote chances of winning because of this.

 

[Armand2REP]

Retracting a bit lastest on Leh test now claim only the MIG and SH passed the test?? so zoravor your guess is right if true??

I don't think Super Hornet made the cut.

While Boeing’s F/A-18 was the first to be tried, the company finds itself unable to comment on any ‘milestones’ that might have been achieved.

http://www.stratpost.com/mmrca-trials-chance-to-match-highest-take-off-record

 

[Armand2REP]

This message was posted by a Rafale pilot on air defence.

The Rafale B 301 and B 302 are in India including on the basis of Jaisalmer about 150 km from Pakistan.
I was there in 2007 it is in the desert and there's hot ...

The aircraft performed well particularly in the hands of Indian pilots.

A test driver is a former boss of one unit in M2000 and seems particularly pleased so many trials that have been made
firing air-ground
rvt-on Midas
-landing mass max
-implementation in superheated atmosphere
...
Note that during their stay in Jaisalmer the F16 (-60 UAE) and 18 have suffered from very high temperatures

 

[Yusuf]

What is going on? come from behind victory for Rafa eh?? I think we still have a long way to go. Playing the cards well is the key considering how uncle sam is going these days.

 

[Armand2REP]

What is going on? come from behind victory for Rafa eh?? I think we still have a long way to go. Playing the cards well is the key considering how uncle sam is going these days.

Where we stand... Rafale did well in Jaisalmer while the American fighters did not.

Four fighters had start-up problems in Leh before Gripen was tested. Super Hornet was probably one of them.

Doesn't look good for SH...

 

[gogbot]

Where we stand... Rafale did well in Jaisalmer while the American fighters did not.

Four fighters had start-up problems in Leh before Gripen was tested. Super Hornet was probably one of them.

Doesn't look good for SH...

Well if SH did fail at Leh , then that just means the LCA would go for the EJ-2000 engine .

So i am currently counting for the Typhoon to be the wonder plane from Leh.

I personally want the Rafael to win, but i want the EJ-2000 engine for the LCA MK-2 more.

Hopefully no problems with the EJ-2000

 

[nrj]

Well well well,

The news Livefist is reporting (from Hindu source) says 4 out of 5 contenders that undergo trial at Leh failed.

These 5 tested were F-16, Eurofighter, Rafale, Super Hornet and MIG-35.

Gripen (6th player) didn't yet tested at Leh.

So only one cleared the so called "High altitude take off operations testing" ....

then how come we name two fighters which passed Leh test? >>>>>>

 

[Zoravar]

Here is something I found,it may be old but some parts are still relevant:
Source:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1455797,curpg-1.cms

NEW DELHI: Young IAF pilots prefer Mirages over F-16s. But the Mirage assembly lines are now being shut down.

Though French defence minister Michele Alliot-Marie told her Indian counterpart Pranab Mukherjee last month that the lines could be kept open if India gave "firm indications", France itself is pushing the Rafale now.

"If not the much-cheaper Mirage, go for Rafale. At more than $70 million per jet, Rafale is no doubt very expensive but it’s of the latest generation and packs a mean punch. If not 126, we can go in for a lesser number of Rafales," says a Wing Commander.

But what about the American jets? The US is even promising spin-offs from its F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and F\A-22 Raptor programmes, as also the AESA radars, in the deal.

Pilots do not seem too keen on F-16s, which they say haven’t fared too well either "across the border" or in joint exercises with India.

Btw I got a Mig-35 calendar from Russia through this air commodore and it has an awesome pic,will post pic soon.

 

[nitesh]

hmmm this is interesting, money part is being taken care

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/gene...Vendors May Get To Revise Indian Fighter Bids

NEW DELHI — As field trials for India’s 126-aircraft Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) draw to a close, vendors vying for the program could get the opportunity to revise their pricing.

“We will redefine our bid, which will be cheaper than the one we submitted two years ago, as we were not as smart then as we are now,” one vendor said, declining to be identified. “We are more competitive and stronger now.”

Another commented, “Technical evaluation is an air force matter. We will try and ensure we hit all wickets. We haven’t made a decision on repricing.” “This, of course, presupposes that the repricing will be called for,” another vendor noted.

And another OEM added that currency fluctuation over the past two years will be another factor to consider.

The currency factor if we see closely the Europeans birds will be cheaper

 

[Agantrope]

Either of EF or Rafael would be a good addition of the air fleet. Love to see Meteor any of this things

 

[nitesh]

Either of EF or Rafael would be a good addition of the air fleet. Love to see Meteor any of this things

I don't think France want this deal they seem to be more happy selling to our neighbors: http://sify.com/news/pak-navy-to-ac...-by-india-news-international-kd0mOfcieid.html