Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

[Sovngard]

BTW I seen a claim from US Army tanker, that side hull armor over crew compartment is actually around 3 inches. 3" = 76.2mm, so it's thicker than mostly estimated from photos. It would also mean that hull sides over engine compartment and at suspension attachement points would be around 2 inches. 2" = 50.8mm.

 

[Damian]

This is not standard M1 hull, but modified hull for CATTB technology demonstrator that had larger and heavier turret. It is possible that additional modification to reduce weight a bit was to use thinner plates.

You should know that technology demonstrators and prototypes are very different from production standard vehicles.

On this drawing for example glacis plate is thinner than how it was meassured by US Army tank crew member.

 

[methos]

No, it is pretty much a standard M1 hull. All modifications are listed and were done to a basic M1A1 hull.

 

[Damian]

If there are modifications then it is not standard hull.

Technology demonstrators and prototypes are never similiar to production standard. I know it, I had this very clearly explained by people who actually are very close to arms industry.

For example even materials used for such stage of research and development are different than in production standard due to different reasons.

 

[methos]

No, they used a standard M1A1 hull from actual productions and later modified by removing some parts. This means that the hull chassis (the steel parts) remained from the original tank.

 

[Damian]

Eh, as you wish, I stand with my opinion.

 

[militarysta]

Polish Leopard-2A4PL modernization details!

Well it's seems that all polish 2A4 will be improved to level over the leopard-2A5, in fact polish "maximum" variant is preatty close to the Leopard-2A7.
Modernization of the single Leopard-2A4 to 2APL level is assumed by polish MoD on between 2-2,5milion euro.

in the required basic level modernization consist:

"basic level":
1. replacement PERI R17 whit new PERI R17A3 whit Attica thermal camera
2. full hunter-killer plus mode between Tk and Tc
3. new driver night vision block and new rear driver camera from polish PCO factory: KDN-1
4. replacement main turret "special armour" (inside armour cavity) by newest avaible ones (yes yes yes!)
5. elimination EMES-15 gap by rising whole EMES-15 vision block above turret roof, remove new PERI, total change gun mantled mask whit new placment FERO
6. spall-linear inside turret
7. ready to use "fixing point" do aditional special armour (NERA?) in front of the turret and hull
8. changes in FCS to use air-burst 120mm ammo (polish production ones or from other manufacures)
9. replacment turret elevation and stabilisation mehanism to fully electrical - so from WNA-H22 to E-WNA
10. new interface and the workplace for Tank Comander, and for Gunner
11. use CAN to keep all system and new RPP-1 system

this above is "basic level" -the minimum needed by polish MoD, but they are some additional modernisation levels: A, B,C,D - it's possible modernisation level beyond basic level. propably polish MoD will decide to modernisation in sucht way - to achive circa leopard-2A7 level. Levels (A B C D) are listed according to the priorities of the polish MoD -so A level will be done first - level D only when extra money will be avaible. Propably if offered price in this trade will be good for polish MoD level basic + D (maximum program) will be implemented.

levels:
eacht level consist minimum "basic level" + some addons in few groups (A,B.C.D)

level A:
basic level + external aditional modular armour on turret front and hull front to incarese protection in +/-35. degree from longitiudal axis, APU whit it's separate STOPFire sytsem, new drivers anti-blast seats

level B:
basic level + level A + soft kill APS Obra-3 SSP-1 and aditional 16 81mm smoke granades, new inertial navigation Tain 30000

level C:
basic level + level A + level B + replacment EMES-15 thermal camera by next Attica - so more or less changing whole EMES-15. Cooling system for crew and electronics block.

level D:
basic level + level A + level B + level C + RCWS made in polish facotry (descripsion avaible here: Zdalnie sterowane moduły uzbrojenia OBR SM Tarnów)


Whole post is based on polish military press:
Szulc.T, Zieliński Z., Modernizacja ze wskazaniem?, RAPORT wojsko technika obronność, 3/2014, s.30-36
and polish MoD infos.
Now the trade is during progres.

 

[313230]

Good for you Poles, and what is the LOS thickness of special cavity in Leo2A4?

Questions about Hellfire AGM:
The Hellfire 114R has HE capability, but how good is it compare to say 105 or 155 HE shell. It seems Hellfire carries more explosive than even 155mm shell (global security site says former version has NEW of 35lbs - 15kg)

In general, which is better, simple shell with heavy case or pre fragmented warhead?

 

[militarysta]

Good for you Poles, and what is the LOS thickness of special cavity in Leo2A4?

Made by me picture:

In general, which is better, simple shell with heavy case or pre fragmented warhead?

The last one. In most case.. In extra situation HE shell -as more heavy, immune to most APS, ond able do dive in to earth before explose.

 

[Andrei_bt]

Made by me picture:

geometry failure, should be -

 

[313230]

The last one. In most case.. In extra situation HE shell -as more heavy, immune to most APS, ond able do dive in to earth before explose.

IMO the HE shell has better fragment penetration than pre fragment because it has more weight to produce fragment, so better for anti armor, e.g denote at side or top of armored vehicle

 

[Apollyon]

Bharat Rakshak "¢ View topic - Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - Jan 12, 2012

:shocked::shocked:

 

[Broccoli]

China's new light tank in Mongolian proving grounds.

 

[militarysta]

Polish Leopard-2A4 taking the Odra river.

"badger 2012" laeopard-2 action from 1:25



[video]www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6XwVqZSxYk[/video]

 

[Andrei_bt]

 

[Austin]

China's new light tank in Mongolian proving grounds.

Any more details on this new tank ?

 

[shiphone]

it's a project under development and still in bidding procedure although the winning team seems already there...
basicly two teams are competing for the chassis (we could see two kinds of Chassis for trial),and the turret also has some different designs from some other Research institutions...

we have got to know some Requests for the Bidding

for the Chassis: .........and this winner--the chosen Chassis would be Army's next generation Medium Weight Genernal Purpose chassis (for IFV, SPH, Missile Launcher varients)...

1. 30 tons class
2. gas-hydraulic suspension system
3. hydraulic automatic transmission


for the turret
1. 105 mm Rifle gun
2. autoloading system in the rear section of the turret
3. Relatively advanced( expensive ,as well) Fire Control system

such Light tank project would have to compromise on Protection and go after better maneuverability and firepower( with advanced FC for early firing)

 

[militarysta]

http://lreri.tripod.com/PresentationLRERI.pdf

good pdf whit partial Ukrianian electornic industry offer for weapons sytsem. After 80 pages there is part about tanks system (part of the FCS, navigation, driver evitnoments, etc) worth to see -especiali in contex T-84 and Oplot-M. Looks modern.

 

[Andrei_bt]

1970-s...
"izdelie 480"

 

[militarysta]

Empty turret Leo-2A4 (erly) weight:

modernisation of the driver hatch - notice the upper hull plate thicknes.

hull and gun "weige" details:

this is this element:




all taken from video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7Ko7GIH_QU