Losing Faith in democracy

Discussion in 'Members Corner' started by Rebelkid, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    I have been wondering , is democracy worth it ? is it really worth letting the goons stand for election every time and use the racial , religion card to get votes form the masses, To steal so much money, to be so damn corrupt as to have 1.4 trillion$ of Indian tax payers money in Swiss bank account..

    To openly allow the media to have free reign on insulting the country in front of the world just to get as much as money as possible. I honestly have been loosing faith in it, Democracy only sounds good, I don't get how it is helping us in any way.

    I doubt we are free to do anything we want, lodge a complaint against a politician and u get screwed, tell something about the leaders in the Internet and u get arrested(yes it has happened before). Seriously this democracy ain't working even 30% of how much its supposed to work. Politicians having free will to steal anything form anyone, kill/murder anyone and end up having justice after 20 years..

    I frankly had it to be honest... :angry_10: :angry_10: :angry_10: :angry_10:
     
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  3. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    Like they say its always better to have one thief than 500 thieves.

    Democracy is not working like it was supposed to in India but its the best we've got. Alternatively if we had good dictator then we'd be miles ahead but if we had a bad dictator then we'd be miles behind from where are now.
     
  4. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    Its not working because we are allowing it, Hell am even getting a feeling to protest about the corruption issues if someone would be supporting me. Am honestly loosing it politicians can rape murder anyone and still be a governor of a city/state
     
  5. The Messiah

    The Messiah Bow Before Me! Elite Member

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    When majority of voters are uneducated then what can you except from politics other than politicians raising useless things like caste, religion etc instead of real issues.

    Sometimes i also think it is foolish that uneducated people have a greater voice to elect persons who in turn run the country.....but what are the alternatives ?
     
  6. navida

    navida Regular Member

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    A majority of the voters are uneducated and a majority of the candidates are corrupt. Unless we re think our priorities, the country's future is rather bleak.
     
  7. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    Democracy IS the better way out.

    Believe me, you wouldn't want to be a Chinese in the 1970's, when they were stripping out land from under your feet and throwing you in the millions outta your homes.

    Democracy ensures greater stability, less volatility in political dynamics and more predictable long-run growth. I will post a detailed response to this, sometime soon.

    Take heart, you live in a country where you know all of its flaws. God forbid, had you lived in a country where you knew nothing at all- and the world, nothing about you.
     
  8. Rage

    Rage DFI TEAM Stars and Ambassadors

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    The country's future is very, very and I repeat, very strong. We have overcome tyrannies, socio-political violence, far more corrupt regimes, massive insurgencies, discontent, economic ruin and international sanctions. And we have overcome this all, growing along the way.

    Let me assure you of this: for as Rousseau says, " it is not Peace, so much as Freedom, that makes the species truly prosper".
     
  9. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    Yatha praja tatha Raja
    (As is the ruler, so are the ruled subject)​

    October 12, 2010 12:34:39 AM

    Kanchan Gupta

    Bapu taught us simple living, high thinking. We must practice it. Then only will the nation progress… We have to do that.” And after quoting Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, after preaching the lofty principle of simple living and high thinking, that is, after donning the garb of moral integrity, Mr Lalu Prasad Yadav, the leader of Rashtriya Janata Dal who used the most innovative methods to loot the treasury of Bihar till there was nothing left to steal, gave the reason why he and his party had decided to support the UPA Government against the Opposition’s cut motion on the General Budget. “It was the BJP which instituted cases (of corruption) against me and (my wife) Rabri Devi. Congress did not set the CBI on me,” Mr Yadav said, asking rhetorically, “And you expect me to vote along with the BJP?”

    That was in the Lok Sabha during the debate on the Finance Bill on Thursday, April 29. Our honourable MPs listened to Mr Yadav explain why he did not support the cut motion. People in our wondrous land who elect Mr Yadav and his ilk to Parliament heard him. There are parliamentary records to prove that he said what would be considered shocking and outrageous not many years ago — that political support can be leveraged by not proceeding against corrupt politicians. Today we have come to accept it as legitimate mobilisation of support in Parliament; adharma has become the dharma of coalition politics.

    The BJP/Left-sponsored cut motion was defeated by the Congress through the expedient means of cutting deals with three tainted leaders facing prosecution for amassing wealth beyond their known sources of income. The first to fall in line was Ms Mayawati who instructed the BSP MPs to back the Government. She would. Look at the sequence of events. On April 16, the CBI told the Supreme Court that it had witnesses on affidavit to prove that Ms Mayawati had forcibly collected bribes and would like to press ahead with prosecuting the Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh. This was reported widely in media. A week later, as the Congress struggled with stacking up numbers in its favour, the CBI told the Supreme Court on April 23 that it was willing to consider Ms Mayawati’s request for a closure of the case against her. By Monday, April 26, BSP MPs were enthusiastically supporting the Congress. “We are part of the Government. After all we support it from outside. How can we vote in favour of the cut motion?” a senior BSP MP asked. On April 27, the BSP formally announced its support for the Government and opposition to the cut motion.

    Similarly, the Congress used the CBI, or rather promised not to use the CBI, to ensure the support of Mr Lalu Prasad Yadav and Mr Mulayam Singh Yadav, the two leaders of the unwashed masses who would like to see India slide back to the age of lanterns and bicycles while their kith and kin prosper on slush money, hush money, tainted money. In Mr Lalu Prasad Yadav’s lantern-lit Bihar fictitious cows chewed on imaginary fodder; in the benighted Uttar Pradesh of Mr Mulayam Singh Yadav and Ms Mayawati, children feast on mica-laden lumps of clay and then cry themselves to sleep.

    The Congress, of course, has no compunctions about sleeping with the tainted and the sullied. After all, the pot can’t call the kettle black. With a hugely corrupt Minister raking in millions of rupees by handing out 2G spectrum in a Cabinet headed by a Prime Minister whose publicists insist he is the epitome of honesty, integrity and probity in public life, and having mocked at the law of the land to exonerate an Italian crook known as Ottavio Quattrocchi who was caught with his snout in the trough called public exchequer, the Congress really cannot claim to be any cleaner than those with whose support it remains in power.

    It would, however, serve no purpose to point fingers at those who brazenly flaunt their taint or misuse agencies of the state for political gains. That they are elected to Parliament is a reflection of the larger rot in our society, the cancer that is eating into the innards of our nation: We the people have voted for them, we have done so because we accord caste, community and faith greater importance than national interest. The end result of our cynicism is there for all to see.

    Mrs Indira Gandhi had famously sought to gloss over — her critics would insist she was seeking to justify — corruption by insisting it was a “global phenomenon”. Between then and now, we have internalised corruption and made it a part of our lives. Earlier there was this perception that poor salaries forced babus and policemen to indulge in corrupt practices. Salaries have increased by leaps and bounds, so has the level and quantum of corruption. This is primarily because politicians whom we elect to sit in State Assemblies and in Parliament, to govern the nation, are not above corruption and see politics as a means of self-aggrandisement.

    And so the nexus remains secure and safe. Politicians collude with babus. Babus collude with contractors. Contractors collude with criminals. Criminals collude with politicians or, better still, decide to become politicians. The vicious cycle is seemingly cast in iron and cannot be broken; it has come to represent the ‘system’. Sadly, the people want it this way. Or else they would have voted out the whole lot and, drawing inspiration from the good governance instituted by Mr Narendra Modi, insisted that all of India, and not Gujarat alone, must shine.

    Tragically, that won’t happen. Voters will remain polarised along caste, community and other such faultlines that divide our society and help perpetuate the raj of the corrupt. The self-seeking and expanding middle-classes will insist its interests are protected. The poor will be led like so much cattle by those who shamelessly feed on their misery to live in comfort. It is in no politician’s interest to bring people above the poverty line, so the number of those below the poverty line keeps on increasing: Nearly two-fifths of our people are now categorised as ‘BPL’.

    Soon after he became Chief Minister, EMS Namboodiripad was asked by a journalist: “By when will the Communist Government keep its promise of taking electricity to every home in every village?” Namboodiripad looked aghast, and then shot back: “The day every house in every village has electricity the people will stop voting for us. You must be a fool to expect my Government to keep this promise.”

    That was many, many decades ago. Much has changed in India since then. But voters, in a sense, remain unchanged. They still vote for politicians who they know will never keep their promise, who will lie through their teeth, who will stand up in Parliament and quote Gandhi and then sell themselves to the highest bidder or trade their vote in exchange of the CBI being called off from prosecuting them for theft and worse. If you don’t believe me, go back to the first paragraph of this column.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  10. navida

    navida Regular Member

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    I would rather live in a dictatorship with food to eat than in a country which starves its people. To be frank, I don't think India is a free country. It is a country where the haves control and oppress the have nots. Do you think a poor tribal from a village has the same freedom as an educated urban middle class ?
     
  11. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    The point is the politicians don't want to educate the people, thats the very point

    Fact is politicians won't educate and help the masses to get votes but in communism they help you do this so that you don't go against the govt. Look at china , most people over there are happy because govt. is doing things for them, they get justice quickly, corrupt people are jailed or hanged..

    As Naveda said food/shelter/safty or poverty and misery
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  12. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    point is that people in india are not homogeneous as in west they are diversified.So votes are sold in india in the name of caste religion,tribe,tv sets money ,liquor etc.democracy is like choosing lesser evils among the all the evils.Hence we do get some corrupt people etc but system checks and balances in democracy doesnt allow them to cause damage.Democracy is not so fragile that it need to do censoring of nobel prize winner's news democracy is so strong that it even survives if people talks of secession.Autocracy is like Matrix.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2010
  13. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    Yes but for this country, i dunno if democracy is working if you want it to work we need balls to protest...am actually ready if atleast 1 guy would come with me..
     
  14. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    No one can educate you unless you yourself strive for it.Are you really sure people in the communism matrix of china are really happy???If so what happened to most of the communist country.If people in china are really happy then what it is CCP afraid of that it has to even censon nobel peace winners news.Dont run after mirage ...my sincere advice.
     
  15. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    Dude, do you know some students in villages travels 5 km daily to school to study, while they end up sitting under a tree coz they don't even have a proper class room ? trust me kids are striving for it , its not easy to wake up early morning 7 am and to walk 5 km to school daily sometimes even crossing a river.

    Are we any different from CCP ? politicians murder kill anyone and get away with it, steal 1.4 trillion$ , bribe most of the police men . People are really happy over there because of the employment , success and benefits they are getting, Yes they do have obvious disadvantages, every form of govt. has..
     
  16. navida

    navida Regular Member

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    first of all, Let us stop comparing ourselves with China and try to nitpick their government.
    Unless our people are educated, they will fall for cinema stars and a packet of biriyani before elections. Religion and politics are the biggest and the most corrupt business running in the country. A person needs more than 10lakhs to compete for a counselor position. He is ready to spend the money because he will earn so much more during his tenure. That is the scale of corruption in the country.

    Sai Baba and his likes have billions of dollars as assets. He could go around sexually assaulting children but still get government support him and the politicians will seek his blessings. That is how ignorant our people are.
     
  17. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    How can you say that democracy is not working for india.Remember where we were on 15th aug 1947 and where we are today.British prime-minister churchil was never in favour of indian independence.He saw pakistan as more homogeneous than dersified india and had bet at that time that india will disintegrate with in 10 yrs after attaining freedom.same were the thought of henry kissinger and we proved both of them wrong on the other hand its their blue eyed boy pakistan which is fighting for survival today.even bangladesh is following india's example and succeding today.Unfortunately chinese too have same thoughts about india till 2030.its time to prove them wrong.
     
  18. navida

    navida Regular Member

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    This is the exact reason why our system is flawed. When the people don't know any better, the government should step in to guide them to a better path. It could be even forceful but they will not regret a better future. Singapore wielded an iron grip over its population and so did Mahatir in Malaysia. the people are enjoying the benifits now.

    And about the Chinese Nobel winner, the Chinese public have not support for him. So i really don't think the Noble prize has any value.
     
  19. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    only question do you vote????
     
  20. Rebelkid

    Rebelkid Regular Member

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    Fact is, something has to be done obviously every time i hear 1.4 trillion$ in swiss bank i get freaking pissed .

    DO i vote ? yes i do... I use up my vote to vote no one..
     
  21. ajtr

    ajtr Veteran Member Veteran Member

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    System is not flawed but the people are...
     

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