LCA vs L15

Discussion in 'China' started by wodoo, Aug 9, 2013.

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  1. wodoo

    wodoo Tihar Jail Banned

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    Is the current LCA(IOC) better than L15?

    $US 14.6 million (2008 price)
    L15 General characteristics

    Crew: 2
    Length: 12.27 m ()
    Wingspan: 9.48 m ()
    Height: 4.81 m ()
    Empty weight: 4.96 t (6.5 t)
    Max. takeoff weight: 9.5 t ()
    Powerplant: 2 × Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25 for AJT condition, Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25F afterburning turbofans for LIFT condition

    Performance

    Maximum speed: Mach 1.4
    Combat radius: Over 550+ km ()
    Ferry range: 3,100 km ()
    Service ceiling: 16,000 m ()
    Rate of climb: >200 m/s (afterburning) ()

    LCA:
    Specifications (HAL Tejas Mk.1)

    Data from tejas.gov.in[90] DRDO Techfocus,[91] Aero India 2011,[92]

    General characteristics

    Crew: 1
    Length: 13.20 m (43 ft 4 in)
    Wingspan: 8.20 m (26 ft 11 in)
    Height: 4.40 m (14 ft 9 in)
    Wing area: 38.4 m² (413 ft²)
    Empty weight: 6,500 kg (14,300 lb)
    Loaded weight: 9,500 kg (20,944 lb)
    Max. takeoff weight: 13,300 kg (29,100 lb)
    Powerplant: 1 × F404-GE-IN20 turbofan
    Dry thrust: 53.9 kN[93] (12,100 lbf)
    Thrust with afterburner: 85 kN[94][95][96] (19,000 lbf)
    Internal fuel capacity: 2,458 kg
    External fuel capacity: 2 x 1,200 litre drop tank at inboard, 1 x 725-litre drop tank under fuselage

    Performance

    Maximum speed: Mach 1.8[97] (1,920 km/h) ; (CAS) at high altitude
    Range: 850 km[98] (459 nmi, 528 mi)
    Combat radius: 300 km[98] (162 nmi, 186 mi)
    Ferry range: 3,000 km[64] (1,840 mi)
    Service ceiling: 15,250 m[97] (50,000 ft)
    Wing loading: 247 kg/m² (50.7 lb/ft²)
    Thrust/weight: 1.07[90]
    g-limits: +8/−3.5 g[90]

    Armament

    Guns: 1× mounted 23 mm twin-barrel GSh-23 cannon with 220 rounds of ammunition.
    Hardpoints: 8 total: 1× beneath the port-side intake trunk for targeting pods, 6× under-wing, and 1× under-fuselage with a capacity of 4,000 kg external fuel and ordnance
    Missiles:

    HAL Tejas carrying R-73 missileand Drop Tank.
    Tejas weapon display Aero India 2011

    Air-to-air missiles:
    Python 5
    Derby[102]
    Astra Beyond Visual Range missile
    Vympel R-77
    Vympel R-73
    Air-to-surface missiles:
    Kh-59ME (TV guided standoff Missile)
    Kh-59MK (Laser guided standoff Missile)
    Anti-ship missiles
    Kh-35
    Kh-31
    Bombs:
    [99]
    KAB-1500L laser-guided bombs
    GBU-16 Paveway II
    FAB-250
    ODAB-500PM fuel-air explosives
    ZAB-250/350 incendiary bombs
    BetAB-500Shp powered concrete-piercing bombs
    FAB-500T dumb bombs
    OFAB-250-270 dumb bombs
    OFAB-100-120 dumb bombs
    RBK-500 cluster bomb stake
    Others:[99]
    S-8 rocket pods
    Bofors 135 mm rocket
    Drop tanks for ferry flight/extended range/loitering time.
    LITENING targeting pod[100][101]
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
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  3. rvjpheonix

    rvjpheonix Regular Member

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    The tejas can beat f 16 block 30's and maybe 52's and you are comparing it to an LIFT trainer! Stop opening useless threads and posting dumb stuff. If you are here forgaining knowledge, post something useful. There are enough vs threads with tejas. Go look them up.
     
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  4. wodoo

    wodoo Tihar Jail Banned

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    In original LCA design, Empty weight is 5.5t. Now it is 6.5t. Speed can reach the target only at "high altitude". I believe L15 can do the same job as LCA. Please tell me where is LCA advantage.
     
  5. cw2005

    cw2005 Regular Member

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    I think LCA fans here consider this as an insult. They are comparing the plane with F16 and J10.
     
  6. Impluseblade

    Impluseblade Regular Member

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    I believe that you made another insult. They compare LCA to other 4.5G fighter jets.
     
  7. Keshav Murali

    Keshav Murali Back to studies :( Senior Member

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    LCA has a much higher payload, for instance.

    And don't create "VS" threads.

    You'd better change the thread title to "LCA and L15 comparison thread" or something similar, or some MOD will be along soon.

    =================================

    @p2prada @ersakthivel

    Your contributions are necessary here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
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  8. mikhail

    mikhail Senior Member Senior Member

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    leave it mate as the chinis here have certainly lost their minds.the thing is they know it quite well that once the LCA-MK2 enters into the IAF service they won't have anything equivalent in their arsenal to face it head on.thats why they are making these crappy threads to hide their concerns.
    btw lets start a thread comparing their J-10"flying donkey" with the BAE Hawk AJT trainer in the IAF inventory:p
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  9. bose

    bose Senior Member Senior Member

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    You are wrong here ... Chineese J10 is a 3rd gen fighter... a SU 27 rip off... nor is F16 .... get your facts right...
     
  10. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    1.Original Sustained turn rate requirement for Tejas was 17 deg per second ,

    now ,

    It is 20 degree per second,(with 6Gs and AOA restriction of about 20 deg it does 18 deg per second plus, So once the FCS is fully opened up to 24-26 deg AOA and full 8G turn capability it can do 20 deg per second as Grippen C/D)

    2. The original top speed requirement was mach 1.5,

    now,

    It has done mach 1.6 and it's design top speed to be achieved at FOC is mach 1.8( in MK-2 version it is going to be Mach 2plus)

    3. It's original max take off weight is 12.5 tons


    now,

    Tejas mk-1 lifts 13.2 tons at take off,

    4. Originally it was to fire 60 Kg 40 Km range BVRs only,

    now,

    MK-1 t can fire any BVR with any weight that can hit target at 120 Km + range,


    5. It was not meant to have OBORG, 120 Km + range trackig radar and in flight refuelling probe,

    now it has,

    6. Original Instantaneous turn rate was supposed to be 30 deg per second equal to Mirage ,

    now,

    According to test pilots it handles sharper than Mirage(Since it has ten percent more thrust to weight ratio and even lower wing loading than Mirage-2000 , it will have a much better instantaneous turn rate than Mirage exceeding the original design goal),


    7. Originally it was meant to fly forever with 84Kn engine with a max thrust to Weight ratio of 1.07(half fuel, two BVR missiles+empty weight taken for weight/ Max thrust )

    now

    Thanks to AMCA program it will have 100 KN K-10 as a mid life upgrade,

    8. originally it was to have a weapon load of 4 tons,

    now ,

    it will carry close to 3600 Kg plus with full fuel on take off, and once 400 Kg weighing telemetry instruments are removed , it may carry design weapon load as well



    9.it's original sea level top speed was to be mach 1,

    now ,

    It does mach 1.1

    10. Originally it was slated to fly with doppler radar,

    now

    In mk-2 it is supposed to have ASEA radar.

    So a lot of things about tejas has changed but only for the better,

    Now it's specs are quite comparable to F-16 C/D and grippen C/D in Mk-1 version.

    In mk-2 tejas is supposed to have a TWR of 1.27 equal to RAFALE TWR and 5 ton pay load.


    With an clean config RCS many times less than J-10 or any other 4th gen fighter in Chinese airforce , it can shoot them out of the sky like pigeons without even being tracked by their radar with 120 plus Km range BVR any day any time they venture beyong himalayas with mule like weapon loads(because all the PLAF fighters have the highest wing loading in the world, meaning when they take off from their high altitude tibetian air fields they will carry far less weapon loads than the very low wing loading tejas.),

    It can shoot down any dino era all metal PLAF watered down Mig versions and Flanker versions(which have the RCS of a foot ball field compared to foot ball size for tejas) across the Himalayan skies as they are all much inferior to Su-30 MKI

    The sad truth is this makes all the fighters in the PLAF less capable than L-15 . What do you think?

    Shall We close the thread?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2013
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  11. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    No change nothing, I wan to have some fun here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 10, 2015
  12. Payeng

    Payeng Daku Mongol Singh

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    What is the T/W ratio of the Chinese aircraft?
     
  13. ersakthivel

    ersakthivel Senior Member Senior Member

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    Doesnot matter much as they all have foot ball field size radar reflections compared to Tejas LCA , SO they will be fired upon with 120 Km range BVRs from tejas even before they all detect the presence of Tejas on their radar.

    No amount of TWR is going to save them from those BVRs,

    Even if they evade BVRs and enter close combat the very high instantaneous Turn rate of Tejas will always enable Tejas to have a first shot with high off boresight WVR missiles , and with their very small size it will be very difficult to spot them in close combat as well.
     
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  14. Payeng

    Payeng Daku Mongol Singh

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    L-15 should be compared to Yak-130
     
  15. Abhijeet Dey

    Abhijeet Dey Regular Member

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    There should be a thread on J-20 vs HAL FGFA.
     
  16. p2prada

    p2prada Stars and Ambassadors Stars and Ambassadors

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    LCA is a full fledged fighter. L-15 is a trainer. Big difference.
     
  17. Impluseblade

    Impluseblade Regular Member

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    You misunderstood me. I was saying "Comparing LCA to J10 Su27 is an insult to our Indian friends since LCA is a 4.5g fighter".

     
  18. Impluseblade

    Impluseblade Regular Member

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    One question: If LCA MK2 is so wonderful as you claimed, why do you still need to buy planes from other countries?

     
  19. nimo_cn

    nimo_cn Senior Member Senior Member

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    every single weapon system is state of the art, although their targetted client refuse to procure.

    Sent from my HUAWEI T8951 using Tapatalk 2
     
  20. LTE-TDD

    LTE-TDD Regular Member

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    Because it is better on paper only.
     
  21. The Fox

    The Fox Regular Member

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    the answer to it is with u tell us why do Chinese buy su 35 when you have super duper j 20 fifth gen fighter in ur country..... answer this and you will get the answer for the indian buying Rafael
     
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