Know Your 'Rafale'

[LalTopi]

At this point it's really best to cancel the Rafale deal. At 20 - 30+ Billion ($$) it just doesn't make any economic sense. Especially since we're also negotiating with the Russians (another 30 Billion or so) for the PAKFA/ FGFA. While operational requirements need to be met, we cannot simply allow only two acquisitions by the IAF alone to set us back by about 50 - 60 Billion dollars. IAF must be told to choose between Rafale & the FGFA & make do with increased Tejas MK1 & MK 2 nos.
Rafale may have made sense till about 5 yrs ago, right now it's just too late & too expensive. I strongly support Manohar Parrikar in this. Just bump up the MKI nos. & address the rest with Tejas.

I was all for the Raffale, but looking at the currency fluctuations, the Russian Rouble has lost half it's value against the Rupee INR in the last year and is at an all time low. Conversely INR fairs slightly worse against the Euro compared to January 2012 when Dassualt was selected as preferred bidder - also the USD dollar cost quoted has gone up dramatically. Given the desparate state of the Rouble, I think it's time to cut a deal with Putin methinks.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

The deliberations of the government with Dassault cannot be published at this point. I am sure details will come out after the tender is cancelled.

are you sure the tender will be cancelled

 

[grampiguy]

A few years ago, UAE AF had offered these Mirage aircrafts to IAF. The Indian idea was to induct advanced Mirage 2000-9 versions in IAF and upgrade the existing ones to augment the Mirage 2000 fleet. That could have given a breather to IAF before a new MMRCA was bought. However, as it happens in IAF, the deal was scuttled for some frivolous reasons. I wonder whether new RM knows about this existing option !!!



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UAE Offers Mirage Fighters to Iraq - Defencenews
The United Arab Emirates may be offloading up to 10 Mirage 2000-9s to the Iraqi Air Force in March, according to a UAE government source.....
The UAE has 36 multirole Mirage 2000 fighters that have been in service since 1986, 30 of which have been extensively refurbished and then upgraded to the same standard as the newer fleet of 32 Mirage 2000-9s delivered starting in 2003 by France's Dassault Aviation.

The technologies and advanced capabilities that the Mirage 2000-9s incorporate include Dassault's "Rafale technology," with similar modular avionics, an LCD glass cockpit with full night vision goggles compatibility, and advanced sensors and systems, according to the Bader 21 purchase agreement signed in 1998.

At the core of the Mirage 2000-9's navigation and attack system is a Thales-and Dassault-developed modular data processing unit similar to the one used in the Rafale. This serves as the mission computer, manages the navigation and attack system, controls the cockpit display system and generates symbology for the head-up and head-down displays. As a result, the Mirage 2000-9 is claimed to enjoy a world-beating, highly intuitive man-machine interface.......

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[sgarg]

are you sure the tender will be cancelled

Yes sure. There is no other way. This contract is dipped in heavy corruption. The BJP is no mood in spoiling its record by corruption of previous regime.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Yes sure. There is no other way. This contract is dipped in heavy corruption. The BJP is no mood in spoiling its record by corruption of previous regime.

Beaureucrates in MoD and IAF are heavily pushing the deal

 

[grampiguy]

Beaureucrates in MoD and IAF are heavily pushing the deal

On Contrary, IAF commanders are quite silent these days on Rafale acquisition. Even their retired folk are not very aggressive on this aircraft in last 1-2 months.

One wonders why?

 

[ersakthivel]

On Contrary, IAF commanders are quite silent these days on Rafale acquisition. Even their retired folk are not very aggressive on this aircraft in last 1-2 months.

One wonders why?

change of government has put many uncomfortable facts about the sordid state of negotiations in public domain.

And with manohar parrikar,(an IIT engineering graduate ) the new defence minister openly saying more Su-30 MKI is as good an alternative in case MMRCA deal falls through, our Imported airforce chairmarshals who coyly maintained "that there is no plan B if rafale deal falls through" are cooling their heels quietly. It appears the private firm dassault is yet to make up its mind on sticking to RFP rules regarding guarantee of HAL made jets and the final price. SO all is quite onthe western front for now.
And the serial production of tejas has put an end to the vexed IAF question of , "how to replace old Mig-21 ". SO rafale supporters are treading ever so softly.

 

[ersakthivel]

A few years ago, UAE AF had offered these Mirage aircrafts to IAF. The Indian idea was to induct advanced Mirage 2000-9 versions in IAF and upgrade the existing ones to augment the Mirage 2000 fleet. That could have given a breather to IAF before a new MMRCA was bought. However, as it happens in IAF, the deal was scuttled for some frivolous reasons. I wonder whether new RM knows about this existing option !!!



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
UAE Offers Mirage Fighters to Iraq - Defencenews
The United Arab Emirates may be offloading up to 10 Mirage 2000-9s to the Iraqi Air Force in March, according to a UAE government source.....
The UAE has 36 multirole Mirage 2000 fighters that have been in service since 1986, 30 of which have been extensively refurbished and then upgraded to the same standard as the newer fleet of 32 Mirage 2000-9s delivered starting in 2003 by France's Dassault Aviation.

The technologies and advanced capabilities that the Mirage 2000-9s incorporate include Dassault's "Rafale technology," with similar modular avionics, an LCD glass cockpit with full night vision goggles compatibility, and advanced sensors and systems, according to the Bader 21 purchase agreement signed in 1998.

At the core of the Mirage 2000-9's navigation and attack system is a Thales-and Dassault-developed modular data processing unit similar to the one used in the Rafale. This serves as the mission computer, manages the navigation and attack system, controls the cockpit display system and generates symbology for the head-up and head-down displays. As a result, the Mirage 2000-9 is claimed to enjoy a world-beating, highly intuitive man-machine interface.......

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Not for frivolous reasons!!!!

In securitywise blog Bharath karnard clearly explained the deal was sabotaged for reasons best known to higher ups only.

 

[halloweene]

Considering the huge amount of factual errors in his article...

 

[sgarg]

Considering the huge amount of factual errors in his article...

I do not think Bharat Karnad is the issue here. The issue is that MMRCA tender was worth approx 10 billion dollars. This was the amount at which this tender was decided. Things have gone very very murky after that, as nobody knows the actual price of the fighter and the tender has been sabotaged by bringing in TOT to HAL. The TOT is nothing but deception. Also lifecycle cost illogic has been introduced while everybody knows it is virtually impossible to project cost for 40 years time.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

I do not think Bharat Karnad is the issue here. The issue is that MMRCA tender was worth approx 10 billion dollars. This was the amount at which this tender was decided. Things have gone very very murky after that, as nobody knows the actual price of the fighter and the tender has been sabotaged by bringing in TOT to HAL. The TOT is nothing but deception. Also lifecycle cost illogic has been introduced while everybody knows it is virtually impossible to project cost for 40 years time.

no sign yet of any empowered negotiator from dasault

when d you think the deal scrapping annoucement will be made ?

 

[mans.randhawa]

no sign yet of any empowered negotiator from dasault

when d you think the deal scrapping annoucement will be made ?

It wont be in nations interest to scrape this deal , with most inventory full or russian junk and indeginious fuddu aircraft which is no where in sight rafale will be only face saver for iaf

 

[sgarg]

no sign yet of any empowered negotiator from dasault

when d you think the deal scrapping annoucement will be made ?

A decision is very likely in April-May 2015. The GOI will say that negotiations with Dassault have gone nowhere and no conclusions have been reached, so the tender is to be cancelled.
Other parties cannot be called in under this tender as well as the tender process has been thoroughly compromised by previous regime.

There will be no new tender in 2015 at least. GOI will not call a new tender after scrapping this one. IAF will have to rely on Su-30 and LCA Tejas in future.

 

[sgarg]

It wont be in nations interest to scrape this deal , with most inventory full or russian junk and indeginious fuddu aircraft which is no where in sight rafale will be only face saver for iaf

You know national interest? What a joke??

 

[SajeevJino]

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Rafale deal by March end, say sources​

Sources have indicated that the Rafale deal could be sealed by March 31. The Thales India Country Director refused comment.

Airbus team coming, Rafale deal by March end, say sources | Business Line


Deal should be sealed before this FY ..otherwise No Rafale

 

[SajeevJino]

A decision is very likely in April-May 2015. The GOI will say that negotiations with Dassault have gone nowhere and no conclusions have been reached, so the tender is to be cancelled.

This is not something like Buying a iPhone

Another official insisted that the Rafale deal was nearing a solution since, "out of the four major contracts, three are signed and in the dock. One contract is in the last stages." The official added that the spate of visits to India by the French authorities recently also pointed to a deal closure, "since several Indian sub contractors have already been identified by the French authorities during their visit to India in February and March last year."

Other parties cannot be called in under this tender as well as the tender process has been thoroughly compromised by previous regime.

There will be no new tender in 2015 at least. GOI will not call a new tender after scrapping this one. IAF will have to rely on Su-30 and LCA Tejas in future.

 

[salute]

.

Rafale deal by March end, say sources​

Airbus team coming, Rafale deal by March end, say sources | Business Line


Deal should be sealed before this FY ..otherwise No Rafale

no matter how much some like to talk against rafale or price of the deal,this deal gonna done.

 

[Compersion]

would be good if this deal is signed with a lot of "Make in India" profile.

 

[SajeevJino]

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From Vishal Jolapara

I just spoke to Dassault & can confirm 3 Rafales (1 Static, 1 Aerial Display & 1 for customer demo flights) will be coming down to enthrall the Indian audiences in another 2.5 weeks time.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

PM Modi may fly in Rafale at air show | The Asian Age

Prime Minister Narendra Modi could be the first Indian Prime Minister to fly in a fighter jet. Hectic talks are under way between the ministry of defence, the Prime Minister's Office and makers of French Dassault Rafale, which is the major contender for the long-awaited Multi Medium Role Combat Aircraft deal worth over Rs. 82,000 crore.

With the presence of french minister for foreign affairs and international development Laurent Fabius in New Delhi, Dassault Rafale has offered Mr Modi a trip during the upcoming Aero India in Bengaluru, which will be inaugurated by the Prime Minister February 18, sources said.

"We are looking at the possibility of Mr Modi flying in a fighter jet. There are talks under way and it will be confirmed in a week," government sources said.

Aviation experts have been demanding that the aircraft deal should be signed at the earliest to ensure right training for Indian Air Force pilots. Rafale was chosen to fill the gap between the indigenously built Light Combat Aircraft Tejas and Sukhoi Su-30MKI. The MMRCA deal has been delayed as the Indian government is worried about the escalating costs and some issues with the transfer of technology.

Dassault Rafale was chosen by the government and Indian Air Force after testing at least half-a-dozen fighter jets from the USA, Russia and Sweden.

In 2011, the government reduced the bidders to two fighters Euro fighter aircraft Typhoon and Dassault Rafale. In early 2012, the government announced that Dassault Rafale had won the contest because of its lower cost.

"But today, the cost has become a major hurdle in sealing the deal. Contract negotiations are still under way and the French government is keen to clinch the deal," an aviation expert said.

This is not the first time that a VIP is flying on a fighter jet. Industrialists like Ratan Tata and Bollywood stars like Shahid Kapoor have flown in the US-made F-16s during the previous Aero India events. In 2009, former Presidents of India A.P.J. Abdul Kalam and Pratibha Patil made history by flying in Sukhoi Su-30MKIs.