Know Your 'Rafale'

[arnabmit]

Answer to all of this was govt policies to prefer DRDO /export over local pvt manufacturing , without any substantial order why will these pvt companies invest in such stuff ?

Do you realize that the examples I cited have more civilian application than defence application?

 

[arnabmit]

Big stick in bum of HAL/DRDO babus and straightening out their work culture.

Bullshit. What do you know about DRDO work culture? The way management best practices have been imbibed into DRDO in the last 2-3yrs have been phenomenal. Specially since Dr. Chander took charge.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Bullshit. What do you know about DRDO work culture?

I have a girl friend working in DRDO so need no examples to know about their work culture.
"Culture is no better than any Municipal corporation"

 

[arnabmit]

I have a girl friend working in DRDO so need no examples to know about their work culture.
"Culture is no better than any Municipal corporation"

I have 2 friends working in DRDO labs as well. No comments on your girl friend.

 

[Lone Ranger]

I have 2 friends working in DRDO labs as well. No comments on your girl friend.

How many hours per week they work , how much work pressure they have for their projects , how many paid leaves they have apart from number of official holidays , drdo is no different from any sarkari lethargic org.
Privatization would bring competitive work culture and perks would be based on performance and very strict deadline based projects , right now HAL/DRDO are not having performance bonds nor are penalized for delays.

 

[karn]

Again a load of BS.

The CNC router is a foreign product assembled and sold in India.

Kirloskar makes diesel units to run pumps and generators. Which automobile uses Kirloskar Engines? None!

Why is DRDO running a project to develop a 1500HP engine which should ideally come from private automotive sector? Because no Indian private automotive house has the capability to undertake such a project.

Why was DRDO importing rotary actuator from the US (economics of scale), and now that it has been blocked, developing it in-house? Because NO private company in India has the capacity to make it and supply to DRDO.

Why is RSP going around the world asking companies to set up FABs in India? Because NO Indian private company has the capability to do it. When DRDO wanted to make 3GOM, it floated tenders after tenders so that at least 1 Indian company can take up the challenge to supply silicon wafers. NONE could. So DRDO finally had to suffer a 3yr bureaucratic red tape in the US to get clearance to import a few silicone wafers.

You expect DRDO to manufacture silicone wafers?

Because of the utterly incompetent nincompoop private sectors, DRDO on a regular basis has to design, develop and manufacture nuts, bolts, washers, gaskets etc., which is not their job.

There is not a single private unit in India which can produce decent polarized glass lenses, or single frequency coated IR lenses. Do you expect DRDO to develop missile seekers or design, develop & manufacture lenses first?

In the west, when a missile or a UAV is developed, >70% of the components are sourced from domestic industry based on laid down parameters.

Here in India, it is the other way round. DRDO develops tools for manufacture components, trains people how to operate the tools and hand holds the completely incompetent private sector so that some of the manufacturing can be done off-DRDO-campus.

No defence R&D org can work efficiently without the support of domestic private industry. DRDO does not have the support. Still they deliver.

No where is it mentioned that the company has foreign partner . When you find it get back to us .. Till then stop your BS.
Kirloskar (127HP)engines are used in hyundai heavy mine excavators .You asked for 1000Hp engines I just pointed them out .
The DRDO project is dependent on Ukraine for the 1500HP engine .
And its cute how you shifted the goal post from HAL to DRDO . At least argue in good faith .And it is indeed the task of DRDO to develop all that . It was why it was founded in the 1st place why else does it exist . Please , DRDO sends its time breaking its head over how the great OFBs go about manufacturing their items before any private company . It is why DRDO is enthusiastic about partnering with private companies .

 

[power_monger]

The DRDO project is dependent on Ukraine for the 1500HP engine .

Incorrect. 1500 Hp engine is a inhouse project.

And it is indeed the task of DRDO to develop all that . It was why it was founded in the 1st place why else does it exist . Please , DRDO sends its time breaking its head over how the great OFBs go about manufacturing their items before any private company . It is why DRDO is enthusiastic about partnering with private companies .

The truth is Indian Private companies have failed miserably in R & D similar to PSU companies failure in manufacturing.The only way we can win is combine the winning combination i.e DRDO(Research) to Private companies(Manufacturing). DRDO knows this and trying for the same.

 

[arnabmit]

How many hours per week they work , how much work pressure they have for their projects , how many paid leaves they have apart from number of official holidays , drdo is no different from any sarkari lethargic org.
Privatization would bring competitive work culture and perks would be based on performance and very strict deadline based projects , right now HAL/DRDO are not having performance bonds nor are penalized for delays.

Deadlines force them to work 10hrs a day. Weekly and monthly reviews are a real pain in the butt. One jokingly said it would be better to leave and join IT industry... copy paste code from the web and get 4 times the salary.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Deadlines force them to work 10hrs a day. Weekly and monthly reviews are a real pain in the butt. One jokingly said it would be better to leave and join IT industry... copy paste code from the web and get 4 times the salary.

living in fools paradise are we , your narration is far from reality and i can have proof based debate but is unfit for this forum , only if you really knew how drdo works .
Also you assumption regarding IT companies is far from real may be applicable to few IT giants working on support projects , but companies involved in complex business operations this is not the real scenario, people have to do lot of brain storming to come up with a viable design.

 

[arnabmit]

living in fools paradise are we , your narration is far from reality and i can have proof based debate but is unfit for this forum , only if you really knew how drdo works .
Also you assumption regarding IT companies is far from real may be applicable to few IT giants working on support projects , but companies involved in complex business operations this is not the real scenario, people have to do lot of brain storming to come up with a viable design.

I am living in a fool's paradise. Or it is the other way round.

I just said what he told me jokingly.

 

[AbhishekDas]

India should cancel the Rafale deal if the last attempt will fail & then should go for Eurofighter Typhoon directly not issuing a tender again, Eurofighter is much better than Rafale & Germany-UK are ready to sell this fighter to India with discount of price. India needs a Medium fighter, & Eurofighter Typhoon is the best option available now after Rafale, so instead of buying additional Sukhoi-30 MKI, India should stuck to its plan of acquring a medium multirole fighter & that should be Typhoon cancelling the french Rafale..

 

[halloweene]

Because you hope Airbus and BAE will accept being liable for another company's work? In your dreams.

 

[halloweene]

(this is first part only you should easily get parts 2 and3)

inreresting quote from former head engineer (Revellin-Falcoz) in part 2, 11.30 : Rafale RCS from front is similar to a sparrow's

 

[Kharavela]

India Losing Patience With Dassault, May Cancel Deal & Order More Su-30 MKI's

India may order more Su-30MKI fighters as the squadron strength of the Indian Air Force (IAF) has dipped to 25 and negotiations with Dassault over Rafale fighter sale tether on the brink of collapse.

For the first time since negotiations with Dassault began three years ago, Indian MoD officials have been quoted by various local media that there is the real possibility of the talks collapsing. The issues over which the talks are deadlocked include cost escalation, transfer of technology and Dassault not wanting to assume responsibility for the aircraft assembled by HAL in India.

Indian defence minister Manohar Parrikar had earlier this week this told journalists that his French counterpart, Jean-Yves Le Drian had offered to send an 'empowered' team to take forward the negotiations. In Indian bureaucratic talk, an empowered person is someone who has been given the authority to take decisions. What this could mean is that Dassault teams negotiating with India may be frequently consulting with their top management in Paris leading to delays.

Parrikar did not specify these difficulties at a press conference in New Delhi, but tellingly stated that additional licence-built Sukhoi Su-30MKI multirole fighters would be "adequate" for the Indian Air Force (IAF) in the event of the Rafale deal being scrapped.

"The Su-30MKI is an adequate aircraft for meeting the air force's needs," Parrikar said, adding that at INR3.58 billion (USD59.66 million) each, the unit cost of the Su-30MKIs being licence-built by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) was less than half that of a Rafale. At present IAF has about 200 Sukhoi- 30 fleet, which represents almost a third of the country's fighter plane fleet.

A top government official told that under existing rules, there was no scope for the Eurofighter consortium, backed by four European countries, including UK, to re-enter the race to sell its Typhoon fighters to India. The Germany-led consortium had come up with a revised proposal — sweetened with a discount — to sell 126 Typhoons to India.

What may be egging the Indian MoD to order more Sukhoi fighters is revealed in a recently report of the Parliamentary Standing Committee (PSC) on Defence. The PSC report has for the first time pointed out that the squadron strength of the IAF has come down to 25 from the sanctioned strength of 45. The IAF and MoD had all along maintained that the current strength is 32 squadrons with each squadron comprising of around 18 aircraft.

"Moreover, 14 of these squadrons are equipped with MiG-21s and MiG-27s, which will retire between 2015 and 2024.

Defence News - India Losing Patience With Dassault, May Cancel Deal & Order More Su-30 MKI's

 

[halloweene]

Juust a last push attempt during ultimate phase of negociations... You take the bet?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Juust a last push attempt during ultimate phase of negociations... You take the bet?

lets see if Dasault calls the bluff .............. lets see what happens then

 

[halloweene]

Ok. "off" info. The famous "empowered etc." means that ultimate round of negociations starting within days. Common practice to pressure at this stage

 

[power_monger]

Because you hope Airbus and BAE will accept being liable for another company's work? In your dreams.

Ball is in France's court: India on Rafale deal

 

[halloweene]

Sad RFP isn't public...

 

[Meriv90]

India should cancel the Rafale deal if the last attempt will fail & then should go for Eurofighter Typhoon directly not issuing a tender again, Eurofighter is much better than Rafale & Germany-UK are ready to sell this fighter to India with discount of price. India needs a Medium fighter, & Eurofighter Typhoon is the best option available now after Rafale, so instead of buying additional Sukhoi-30 MKI, India should stuck to its plan of acquring a medium multirole fighter & that should be Typhoon cancelling the french Rafale..

You can't buy Typhoon since it is built by Finmeccanica too and you banned it for the AW-101 deal. Same with the NH-90 deal(for which i'm quite curious how competitive it has been having only one bidder )