Kaveri Engine

TPFscopes

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Don't you think that 52kN thrust is excessive for a UAV?
Do you know that Avenger UAV have Pratt & Whitney Canada PW545B with only 17.75KN thurst.
Do you know, French nEUROn UAV has Rolls-Royce/Turboméca Adour / Snecma M88 with only 40KN thurst.
Do you know, NG RQ-4 has Rolls-Royce F137-RR-100turbofan engine with only 34KN thurst.
Do you know, LM RQ-170 has GE TF-34 with only 41.25KN thurst

here M88 , TF-34 and RR F137 can generate exceptionally more thurst than what is capped for respective UAVs ,as per requirement on project. similarly, it can be done with Kaveri.
 

TPFscopes

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To my knowledge, Ghatak is Kaveri engine without after burner.

Ghatak engine is to be used in AURA.

Though Aura is a TD, it was planned to be a UCAV, just like LCA started it's life as TD.

Apart from this, is Ghatak a new UCAV program or I mixed up info. Please provide clarification, any sources to back up the explanation would be great.
actually, I already described it clearly that at some open sources , they called ghatak as derivative of Kaveri. (it may have very less possibilities.

GHATAK is the name of UCAV whereas AURA is the acronym of Program. Its very similar to Tejas and LCA.

Clarification about GHATAK Program
A project that has direct oversight from the Prime Minister’s Office and the National Security Advisor, Ghatak (which began as the DRDO’s Autonomous Unmanned Research Aircraft – AURA) has remained steadily out of view.
What we know so far for certain is that the Ghatak will be powered by a modified dry thrust version of the Kaveri engine
Fully story is available at https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/exclusive-indias-ghatak-stealth-ucav-moves-forward.html

From Different source:
The committee also submitted the work share allocation of for executing the GHATAK aircraft program with program office and prime responsibility with ADA, and indicated responsibility with ADA, and indicated responsibility to DRDO, HAL & other labs.
full report: http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/04/idn-take-update-on-ada-ghatak-ucav.html

Another one:
An oblique spin-off of the $8.8 billion deal with France for 36 Rafale fighter jets for the Indian Air Force (IAF) could help DRDO achieve fruition of “Ghatak”, the country’s first stealth combat drone or unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV).

Safran, a French company which manufactures engines for Rafale combat jets, has offered to partner DRDO in the development of a variant of the indigenous Kaveri engine for “Ghatak”
Link to post : http://www.asianage.com/india/all-i...to-help-drdo-realise-stealth-drone-dream.html



The confusion about Ghatak is mainly created by below mentioned post. These guys generally made such mistakes on defense projects. On twitter these guys post Agni-V pic on the new of NAG ATGM test. how can we call them credible when it comes to Defense, whereas LiftFist and IDN are solely defense portals.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...or-indias-first-ucav/articleshow/49775096.cms
 

smestarz

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AURA will be tech demonstrator, and its actual production version will be called Ghatak
It would not be a bomber, but it would be a MRUCAV. It would importantly handle reconnaissance and strike role and also air interception where its stealth is used to advantage.

For CAS you do not need a stealth plane, but you need heavily armed plane with good time on station and heavy war load.

nEUROn as of now is French plane and not a European plane

UCAVs do not need a lot of thrust, the original idea for UCA/UCAV is that the plane was not supposed to be very advanced, it should have been cheap to buy and use. But the present trend is actually competing UCAV with Frontline fighters which the compliment and maybe in future might replace.


no ........Aura is a Kind of Bomber .
even Europeans are using non afterburner variant of M88 on nEUROn .
52 kn thrust is not necessary , it may be less/more too .


 

TPFscopes

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no ........Aura is a Kind of Bomber .
even Europeans are using non afterburner variant of M88 on nEUROn .
52 kn thrust is not necessary , it may be less/more too .


Bomber may no be the exact classification for AURA/Ghatak.
Ghatak UCAVs will have rail-launching for the missiles, bombs and PGM.
 

BON PLAN

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Kaveri GTX with 81Kn is a waste than what is M88 ?
For the "small" Tejas, 81kn will fit.
At least a first airworthy modern engine will be a success for India. Once you have made one, the others will follow...
 

BON PLAN

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First, Check the WEIGHT please.

M-88 weighs 890 kgs only dry thrust 50kn wet 75 kn, with eco core weigh same dry thrust 60kn wet 90 kn plus low Infra red signature due to 2 channel cooling with 8000 hours of life, and 21 replaceable modules so no need to test even after engine repairing just replace the defective module no need for complete engine overhaul, one of the most modern aero engine even better than EJ-200.

Now for Kaveri weight is around 1250-1300 kgs, dry thrust around 50 kn wet 81 kn, engine life at best questionable, needs complete overhaul and testing on bed before reuse..........
You're right.
But before to be a master, you have to learn. Don't compare the young and inexperimented indian engine industry with some few others that have decades of good experience behind them !
 

TPFscopes

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For the "small" Tejas, 81kn will fit.
At least a first airworthy modern engine will be a success for India. Once you have made one, the others will follow...
You replied to a sarcastic question.
I know the importance of Kaveri to India but I was clearing the facts to Mr. Vijyes
 

TPFscopes

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interesting !

Do you have sources? Because even hier, in France, the 83kn thrust is not clear.
Here , I'm talking about the RAFALE as the only consumer of M88.

Originally, the M88-4E can generate the wet thurst of upto 87Kn but due to the smaller air intakes the engine is able to deliver only 83kn max thurst to RAFALEs.
To get full efficiency of M88-4E Dassault have to modify and enlarge the air intakes which is a hectic process and may change its Radar signature too.

In between Snecma was tried to get the thurst of 90+ KN. But failed to do so.

The output thurst of M88-4E was claimed by the Dassault guys at AI'17 and I personally asked the same.
 

BON PLAN

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And just an innocent question, what do you do with the faulty module?
A module, as I understand is compartmentalization of parts..

So in engines where parts are replaced like the Russian engines, the mechanics try to identify the problem and then replace the faulty parts, Time consuming but in a way cheaper,

In modular way, the entire module is replaced, Thus parts which are otherwise fine, or still have say more than half service life would be replaced. These parts (depending on the Standard operating procedure ) would be recycled. Thus with modular engine, the advantage is higher availability. as there is no real need to identify the faulty part, just replace the module. But this will end up being expensive if some of the parts are not recycled, and if they are then it can in a way be problematic for the engine (till the engine is overhauled). But on other hand, replacing faulty parts will be time consuming but cheaper and could be problematic till time of overhaul.

Russian engines are meant to be robust, and made cheaper, In case there is problem with engine, they replace the entire engine and then the faulty engine is repaired by the mechanics at their own sweet time.

Thus the Russian engine is designed to be cheap and robust and during the lifetime of the plane, the total cost spent on the engine does in a way become similar or cheaper than the total cost spent on french engine due to expensive parts.
The module changed is sent back to Safran, to be repaired, or to the repair dept of the air force (or navy) depending of the suposed gravity.
Not scrapped !

The idea was to fast the operations in the shelter, so as to improve disponibility of the plane.
Removing one of the 21 modules doesn't need to fine tune the whole engine. You change the module, put the engine on the plane and it run immediatly.
 

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varun9509

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I thought there was one that was being developed with help from Rolls Royce

Sent from my YU5510 using Tapatalk
 

Vijyes

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K9 woth Snecma and K10 with Rolls-Royce. K9 is 55/90kN while K10 is roughly 70/110kN, mostly may have to settle with 65/100kN. K10 was always said to be 110kN, not 125kN. Considering that they are trying to follow GE F414 and F404 engines, 110kN appears unlikely.
 

lcafanboy

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Russia is only helping in developing 3D vector thrusting nozzles for Kaveri. To be precise Klimov. That's it.

All critical technologies will come from Safran France.
 

TPFscopes

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Russia is only helping in developing 3D vector thrusting nozzles for Kaveri. To be precise Klimov. That's it.

All critical technologies will come from Safran France.
Yup, its correct.
KLIMOV & GTRE are developing TVN since 2015 to modify the produced Kaveri Engine.
Russians have no extra engagement in KAVERI except TVN.

As I posted before, it is also confirmed that there are two parallel modification processes are persued. But I'm unable to get the details about the other process because my sources is working on different department. He also confirmed that the Project is a highly secret.

I don't know why he used the word "secret"? It makes me more curious...:ear:
 
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