Karna's grasp of Dharma

[Singh]

Draupadi never laughed on duryodhan and she never desired karna, she was a pious women who never had feelings for anyone besides her husbands.
i have good knowledge of mahabharat, willing to debate on it.

That Draupadi laughed at Duryodhan is well known. Refer to the Palace of Illusions episode, it figures in every edition.
As for Draupadi "coveting" Karna this episode figures in several esp folk editions of Mahabharata.

In any case I was giving an example of bad karmas coming to fruition. Not really interested in debating what those karmas are and their fruits.

 

[VivekShah]

Sorry he isn't going to get reborn for the next 3000 years( like Ashwathama) having been cursed by a woman (most likely me).

Men can also curse women! Just ask Ahalya and if they get too uppity, talk to Parshuram's wife.

 

[kafir kaur]

That Draupadi laughed at Duryodhan is well known. Refer to the Palace of Illusions episode, it figures in every edition.
As for Draupadi "coveting" Karna this episode figures in several esp folk editions of Mahabharata.

In any case I was giving an example of bad karmas coming to fruition. Not really interested in debating what those karmas are and their fruits.

Both the episodes are not there in the original ved vyas's mahabharat, draupadi laughing is a later addition by some author in 1960's to kinda justify her disrobing later. Karna draupadi angle is again as u said a folktale invention, this is nowhere mentioned in the original mahabharat

 

[Rashna]

See the one who curses first wins. lol.

Men can also curse women! Just ask Ahalya and if they get too uppity, talk to Parshuram's wife.

 

[Khagesh]

Both the episodes are not there in the original ved vyas's mahabharat, draupadi laughing is a later addition by some author in 1960's to kinda justify her disrobing later. Karna draupadi angle is again as u said a folktale invention, this is nowhere mentioned in the original mahabharat

It is immaterial whether she laughed or not.

Simple facts of life do not need justification.

That she was wronged is the only point. And on the matter of woman-folk all the world agrees that, that is a bad idea.

The westerners say - hell hath no fury as a woman scorned.

In Indian systems Woman is the Shakti so no difference there either.

You mess with the woman you mess with everybody who is tied with that woman (brother, father, husband, sons, relatives, the whole village, jati and country). Hell even the lazy urbanite came out in Delhi for Nirbhaya.

 

[kafir kaur]

It is immaterial whether she laughed or not.

Simple facts of life do not need justification.

That she was wronged is the only point. And on the matter of woman-folk all the world agrees that, that is a bad idea.

The westerners say - hell hath no fury as a woman scorned.

In Indian systems Woman is the Shakti so no difference there either.

You mess with the woman you mess with everybody who is tied with that woman (brother, father, husband, sons, relatives, the whole village, jati and country). Hell even the lazy urbanite came out in Delhi for Nirbhaya.

That's my point too , whatever be the case she did not deserve it. The thing is she has been demonised too much in our patriarchal Indian society and blamed for the mistakes she didn't even commit. Lord Krishna himself told about her in the epic, that she was the only one who always walked the path of dharma and did not deter from it even once while the same can't be said about the male characters.

 

[Khagesh]

Men can also curse women! Just ask Ahalya and if they get too uppity, talk to Parshuram's wife.

I think you mean Jamadagni's wife or ParashuRam's mother.

I don't think I ever heard of ParashuRam having a wife. But then ParashuRam comes in and out of so many stories across so many yugas. Who knows.

 

[rock127]

Guys...

If anyone is really interested in who was right/wrong etc in Mahabharat then watch the series "Dharamshetra" in EPIC channel.

The theme is that all the characters have died and produced in the court of Chitragupt and give justifications of their acts and throw allegations.Chitragupt the Judge gives the verdict one by one.

A very interesting series and lot to learn from mistakes of almost all characters.

 

[Singh]

Both the episodes are not there in the original ved vyas's mahabharat, draupadi laughing is a later addition by some author in 1960's to kinda justify her disrobing later. Karna draupadi angle is again as u said a folktale invention, this is nowhere mentioned in the original mahabharat

There is no original Ved Vyas Mahabharat in public domain.

Pune edition also called the Critical edition is used as a gold standard/reference. Mahabharata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, vulgate editions are also extremely popular.

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That's my point too , whatever be the case she did not deserve it. The thing is she has been demonised too much in our patriarchal Indian society and blamed for the mistakes she didn't even commit. Lord Krishna himself told about her in the epic, that she was the only one who always walked the path of dharma and did not deter from it even once while the same can't be said about the male characters.

Neither did Sita deserve to be submitted to Agni Pariksha.

 

[VivekShah]

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Neither did Sita deserve to be submitted to Agni Pariksha.

Yes thank you for criticizing our Lord Ram, now please apply the same standards when judging the religious leaders of other faiths.

 

[Bhadra]

Draupadi never laughed on duryodhan and she never desired karna, she was a pious women who never had feelings for anyone besides her husbands.
i have good knowledge of mahabharat, willing to debate on it.

Having won the war in Kuruchetra, Panadavas were not crowned and yudushtira was not declared the King -

After severe penance in Himalayas for the sins of having committed fratricide and killing their kith and kins, they embarked on their journey to the heaven called Swargarohana.

They fell one by one except Yudhisthir who was taken there alive.

You know why that Sairandhri - the "Dropadi" fell ?

Because she had intense and preferential love for Arjuna in spite of being wife of five brothers ...


and stop looking for original Mahbharata in the void of a logic to explain things.. nothing is original in ever changing world ... and ever changing mind.

 

[kafir kaur]

Having won the war in Kuruchetra, Panadavas were not crowned and yudushtira was not declared the King -

After severe penance in Himalayas for the sins of having committed fratricide and killing their kith and kins, they embarked on their journey to the heaven called Swargarohana.

They fell one by one except Yudhisthir who was taken there alive.

You know why that Sairandhri - the "Dropadi" fell ?

Because she had intense and preferential love for Arjuna in spite of being wife of five brothers ...


and stop looking for original Mahbharata in the void of a logic to explain things.. nothing is original in ever changing world ... and ever changing mind.

now loving someone more, how is that a crime? and in this case she loved her husband not some paraya mard. regardless of which husband she loved the most she was a dutiful loving wife to all her 5 husbands.
by the original epic i mean the english translations of the epic we have which are considered authentic since they are translated word to word from the original vyasa's sanskrit epic.
nothing is original i agree but we do have the epic and various translated versions of it for reference.

 

[hit&run]

First we should understand the Dharma. I can see people taking inferences about dharma from specific events of these Epics. I think it is disrespect (lack of correct word) to the wisdom of those pre historic people who we think were mucking around with no jurisprudence (again lack of correct word) or established definitions of one's Dharma.

Dharma is law of the land.

In Mahaharata they had to fight it out to establish law of the land on specific Issues and It was established by the winning side. It remained the same all the time in human History. After winning world war -ii the laws were defined by the winning side.

Toady things are more easier as justice can be rendered by approaching the courts and our Dharma is again the same, to abide by the law of the land. If there is any confusion, grey areas, or intentional unintentional challenge to the law or breach, the law takes its course.

 

[kafir kaur]

There is no original Ved Vyas Mahabharat in public domain.

Pune edition also called the Critical edition is used as a gold standard/reference. Mahabharata - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

However, vulgate editions are also extremely popular.



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Neither did Sita deserve to be submitted to Agni Pariksha.

By the original MB i meant the english translations we have of the epic. Including neelkanth, kmg, BORI critical edition there are 26 translated versions of the epic for our modern understanding. Critical edition is supposed to be the most aunthetic. In none of the translated versions.. draupadi laughing or desiring karna is there.
But still if one wants to believe the folklores(which originated just a few centuries ago), novels, modern authors, fiction based shows made on MB.. and negate vyasa's MB, they are free to do so.

 

[sgarg]

This kind of discussion is most un-needed.

Discussion should be about dharma (dharma means righteousness or knowing what is right). Talking about a historical personality on the basis of what is written in a book is illogical. Nobody here knows Yudhishtir or Karn personally.

The purpose of studying Geeta or Mahabharat should be to understand dharm. Un-necessary discussion on qualities of characters is a waste of time.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

First we should understand the Dharma. I can see people taking inferences about dharma from specific events of these Epics. I think it is disrespect (lack of correct word) to the wisdom of those pre historic people who we think were mucking around with no jurisprudence (again lack of correct word) or established definitions of one's Dharma.

Dharma is law of the land.

In Mahaharata they had to fight it out to establish law of the land on specific Issues and It was established by the winning side. It remained the same all the time in human History. After winning world war -ii the laws were defined by the winning side.

Toady things are more easier as justice can be rendered by approaching the courts and our Dharma is again the same, to abide by the law of the land. If there is any confusion, grey areas, or intentional unintentional challenge to the law or breach, the law takes its course.

That leads to kurukshetra and the society needs Shri Krishna when you follow law in letter but not spirit. I am not sure things are easier.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

This kind of discussion is most un-needed.

Discussion should be about dharma (dharma means righteousness or knowing what is right). Talking about a historical personality on the basis of what is written in a book is illogical. Nobody here knows Yudhishtir or Karn personally.

The purpose of studying Geeta or Mahabharat should be to understand dharm. Un-necessary discussion on qualities of characters is a waste of time.

It did not start as quality of characters but to understand Dharma before @Singh killed it by bringing in Hukam i.e. even adharma is dharma as it is part of divine will.

 

[Singh]

Yes thank you for criticizing our Lord Ram, now please apply the same standards when judging the religious leaders of other faiths.

Hey Ram !!!!!

 

[Singh]

By the original MB i meant the english translations we have of the epic. Including neelkanth, kmg, BORI critical edition there are 26 translated versions of the epic for our modern understanding. Critical edition is supposed to be the most aunthetic. In none of the translated versions.. draupadi laughing or desiring karna is there.
But still if one wants to believe the folklores(which originated just a few centuries ago), novels, modern authors, fiction based shows made on MB.. and negate vyasa's MB, they are free to do so.

There are only a few English translations.

Clay based on vulgate editions. It is incomplete and suspended.
Ganguly based on archaic English language.
P Lal.
Dutt based on archair English lanauge
Debroy's the latest and the only one based on Critical Edition.

In any case none of these editions claim to be the sole representative of the original Mahabharata as you do.

Critical edition is a "literary" edition as an attempt was made to lose those portions of Mahabharata which the sankrit scholars felt were possible additions by various sampradayas or scholars or commentators. Even the quality of sanskrit even in the same parvas is vastly different in the Critical edition.


"Folklore", regional editions, commentaries have an extremely important role to play in interpreting and understanding Mahabharata. As @Bhadra sir said "stop looking for original Mahbharata in the void of a logic to explain things.. nothing is original in ever changing world ... and ever changing mind."

 

[Singh]

Or I am neither as I am not reborn or tied to this stupidity

And you want "stupid" Hindus to listen to you by abusing the cycle of life and death.