ISIS Hostage Situation in Sydney Cafe

[pmaitra]

It is sad that two people died. Ideally, only the gunman should have been killed, but well, we do not live in an ideal world.

 

[pmaitra]

He converted to being a sunni, that changed his behavioral, mental and genetic make up and suddenly started finding love and obedience to isis...



BBC News - Australia commandos end Sydney cafe siege

Conversion cannot alter a person's genes. Yes, if he hangs out around Chernobyl, it is possible.

 

[Singh]

But when you speak of war on terror, it needs to fought on both fronts... more so the ideological front.

How do you suggest we fight against lone wolfs carrying out acts of terror ? Both ideologically and as a CT strategy ?

PS: And no Gharwapisi is not a solution.

 

[Redhawk]

That guy you just quoted is a resident troll.

I see. Thanks for the information.

 

[ezsasa]

I guess aussies owe Mr.John Howard their former Prime minister some thanks for bringing in Gun control in mid-90's , Other wise today's situation would have been much much worse.

 

[sydsnyper]

T'was sarcasm aimed at the transformation of people's core values caused simply by owing allegiance to one version of a made up story from another...... I was hoping I did not have to explain that

Conversion cannot alter a person's genes. Yes, if he hangs out around Chernobyl, it is possible.

 

[sydsnyper]

Waiting for and fighting lone wolves is a losing drag of a battle. Unfortunately we have to continue this strategy as long as we do not formulate a comprehensive plan to uproot this menace at the source.

Ideology has to be fought with a counter ideology. If only we could mass communicate the evils of these extremist regimes (taliban, isis etc) we could create a feeling of disdain for the kind of islamic utopia these groups promise.

While all the Hindu right wing demeanor is forced on every listening ear, why are we not doing the same with the jihadi literature caught in mosques and terror cells. Exposing their agenda in the media, the same way the Sanghis are dealt with, would be a good start.

PS: What is wrong with Gharwapasi (I may be getting lured into a rhetorical exchange, but I take the bait anyways).

How do you suggest we fight against lone wolfs carrying out acts of terror ? Both ideologically and as a CT strategy ?

PS: And no Gharwapisi is not a solution.

 

[Bangalorean]

Our treatment of illegal immigrants has been more than generous, and hardly deplorable. We have the right to protect our borders.

The person you replied to, is a notorious Pakistan sympathizer. He sympathizes with any Muslim who espouses a terrorist cause, and pretends to be an Indian on internet forums, which infuriates us. He wants the Indian government to sue for peace with Pakistan in spite of horrendous terror attacks, he wants Indian society to ignore terrorism, he wants Indian Hindus to place Islamic fundamentalism on a pedestal and respect it, he wants India to ignore ISIS, he basically wants us to capitulate completely to terrorists and radical Islam.

The best way to reply to that guy is to abuse him and mock him.

 

[Redhawk]

The person you replied to, is a notorious Pakistan sympathizer. He sympathizes with any Muslim who espouses a terrorist cause, and pretends to be an Indian on internet forums, which infuriates us. He wants the Indian government to sue for peace with Pakistan in spite of horrendous terror attacks, he wants Indian society to ignore terrorism, he wants Indian Hindus to place Islamic fundamentalism on a pedestal and respect it, he wants India to ignore ISIS, he basically wants us to capitulate completely to terrorists and radical Islam.

The best way to reply to that guy is to abuse him and mock him.

Yes, I've been informed and warned about this character. Thanks for the further information.

 

[sydsnyper]

... and I would also like to add that we, Indians, stand with Australians in the time of this crisis. Our thoughts and prayers with all those hostages and the one policeman who were hurt and their families. Peace be to them...

Yes, I've been informed and warned about this character. Thanks for the further information.

 

[Redhawk]

US and it's allies breastfed these monsters assuming that the mighty west will never get hit. The double game hasn't stopped, we saw what happened in Syria, who funded the bloody conflict there. Who killed Gaddafi? US-adopted states in Gulf are providing sanctuary to the Sunni extremists. JKLF a banned terrorist group in India operated from London, so did several Khalistani gangs.

Will they wake up and stop playing this "good terrorist, bad terrorist" game? I don't think so.

I'm afraid this is true. U.S. support for the mujahideen was a double-edged sword, and radical Islam rebounded only to turn on the West.

 

[Redhawk]

... and I would also like to add that we, Indians, stand with Australians in the time of this crisis. Our thoughts and prayers with all those hostages and the one policeman who were hurt and their families. Peace be to them...

Thank you, sydsnyper. Your thoughts, prayers, and support are much appreciated.

 

[Singh]

Waiting for and fighting lone wolves is a losing drag of a battle. Unfortunately we have to continue this strategy as long as we do not formulate a comprehensive plan to uproot this menace at the source.

Ideology has to be fought with a counter ideology. If only we could mass communicate the evils of these extremist regimes (taliban, isis etc) we could create a feeling of disdain for the kind of islamic utopia these groups promise.

While all the Hindu right wing demeanor is forced on every listening ear, why are we not doing the same with the jihadi literature caught in mosques and terror cells. Exposing their agenda in the media, the same way the Sanghis are dealt with, would be a good start.

In essential your post suggests two things

1. Counter Terror strategy - Status Quo.

My original point was regarding a requirement for not following the status quo. A lone wolf radicalised by internet postings, taking a bunch of people hostage is the new form of islamic terrorism.

2. Ideology - Highlight evils of Islamic regimes like Taliban and ISIS. Also expose agenda of extremists and you gave an eg of Sangh

Put yourself in the shoes of a gullible or radical muslim:

What's so evil about them ? and how is exposing their agenda based on Islamic teachings be beneficial ?
Taliban ruled as per shariat, ISIS is fighting the kuffar shias and kurds.

And I disagree with your example using RSS.

PS: What is wrong with Gharwapasi (I may be getting lured into a rhetorical exchange, but I take the bait anyways).

A person who is willing to kill because of Islam , A. isn't going to convert to Hinduism and B. become a docile lamb after converting.

 

[nrupatunga]

[CT mode on] What did he really want to achieve with this hostage crisis?? By the "looks" of it , it was complete failure. So was he really a lone wolf?? This can be partially answered by how govt handles the aftermath?? Will new laws come into being which will "control" public even more?? How will this affect geopolitics??[/CT mode off]

 

[Ray]

The audience of this kind of stunts may not the general public. The audience could be more those people who are vulnerable to radicalization. This kind of stunts might be encouraging these borderline extremists to go over the edge.

But yes, on the other hand, the greater public has to be informed of the barbarity of these people. Maybe a minimum coverage policy would be in order.

Minimum coverage does not help.

We even repealed the Anti Terrorist Law POTA because terrorism was not being taken seriously.

We have experienced the effect of minimum coverage in India leading to the Mumbai carnage, beheading of our soldiers and the PM still wanting and talking to Pakistan as if it is business as usual.

It is now with the change of Govt is that we are on the way to talking turkey.

 

[sydsnyper]

In essential your post suggests two things

1. Counter Terror strategy - Status Quo.

My original point was regarding a requirement for not sticking the status quo. A lone wolf radicalised by internet postings, taking a bunch of people hostage is the new form of islamic terrorism.

My opinion is that we should wean from the status quo. No matter how much the intel agencies surveil or security agencies keep their eyes peeled at sensitive locations, we cannot stop them all and as time passes I fear they will only grow in strength and with each failed attack will adapt to the security measures.

Rather, like Ajith Doval hinted to in one of his speeches, the ideology that gives birth to the feeling of 'I am superior to the kuffars' and 'anything wrong that happens to people of my faith is a conspiracy by the jews-west-non-muslims' has to end.

2. Ideology - Highlight evils of Islamic regimes like Taliban and ISIS. Also expose agenda of extremists and you gave an eg of Sangh

Put yourself in the shoes of a gullible or radical muslim:

What's so evil about them ? and how is exposing their agenda based on Islamic teachings be beneficial ?
Taliban ruled as per shariat, ISIS is fighting the kuffar shias and kurds.

And I disagree with your example using RSS.

Exposing their agenda will be beneficial because common public perception is the only thing that will force the gullible muslims to rethink. This is how I think it can help:

1. Exposing the supremacist agenda and the historical context of islamic conquests or islamic nation states will create a an air of awareness (maybe even cases of xenophobia) of the ills of this ideology.
2. Because of a focused public perception, shame of being isolated will prompt elders to keep their wards ideologies in check
3. Natural comparison of their lives in democratic nations like India v/s a strict sharia state will help demoralize wannabe jihadis further (for example, we should rerun the story of the Indian isis guy who was made to clean toilets)
4. To stall the indoctrination from internet sourced jihadi ideologies, summarize of their common rhetoric and expose them on the wide media along with logical and to-the-point rebuttals

This process will not be effective in a year or two, but may take a decade or so to show effect. It is a slow but sure process that I think will help address the root cause.

A person who is willing to kill because of Islam , A. isn't going to convert to Hinduism and B. become a docile lamb after converting.

A person who is willing to kill because of islam will not convert, but those who do, will mostly keep themselves away from the sludge. You always see in recent converts, the obeisance is much more than the long time believers.

 

[DingDong]

As long as the notion of Infallibility of Q'uran remains Terrorism will keep haunting and killing the Humanity. Other religions have/had undergone reforms, including Christianity and Hinduism, but the Muslims reject any reform and don't wish to get out of their medieval mindset because according to them every word written in Q'uran must be followed literally as God's will.

I have read this statement several times: You are either a Muslim or you are not. There is nothing called a Liberal Muslim. Truth is that even the Liberal ones believe in Conspiracy theories. Instead of introspecting majority of Muslims believe that they are being victimized. Do Muslims really believe that they will win this great war of civilization they have declared against 80% of Humanity? I don't think so.

 

[apple]

Footage of the final assault.

[video]http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-16/sydney-siege-climax/5969376[/video]

Media should avoid showing positions of counter-terrorist units in this kind of situation. That is dangerous. The hostage takers outside can monitor what law enforcement are planning.

The incident occured opposite a TV networks headquarter. They were onscene and filming and broadcasting almost right from the start.

Let the guessing game begin. What is the probability that this will turn out to be a Paki?

I know that it cannot be a Paki who has traveled specifically for this purpose. I am referring to a Pak-origin Australian.

A Pakistani would have been a long shot. Lebanese would have been the obvious choice.

There were reports of explosive vest being worn by him although unconfirmed. Maybe that's why no such action.

There's never any point replying to that poster, he never knows what he's talking about. They didn't shot him throw the windows as they café was built to be a bank and had armoured glass windows.

TAG(East) are based in Sydney, once they are on the ground its bad luck for the terrorist.

Don't think TAG would have been used for a single gunman.

................................ Something fishy ?

No

 

[cobra commando]

Iran says Australia ignored warnings about gunman - The Economic Times

 

[Razor]

................................ Something fishy ?

No

Iran had repeatedly warned Australia about the Islamist hostage-taker in Sydney whose 16-hour siege resulted in the deaths of two captives, before a police operation resulted in his death as well, according to a high-level Iranian official.

Iranian-born Australian Man Haron Monis was a 50-year-old Iranian refugee and Islamic extremist who had a previous track record.

Deputy Police Commissioner Catherine Burn confirmed that Monis had a "serious history of criminal offences and a history of violence," AFP reported Tuesday.

Iran's deputy foreign minister for Asia and Oceania affairs, Ebrahim Rahimpour, reported later in the day that Australia had ignored warnings about the potential danger that the man posed.

"Despite several notifications to the Australian government regarding his criminal background, no attention was paid," Rahimpour told Iranian state television. "We provided information and asked them to watch this person, but unfortunately they did not pay attention."

Source: http://rt.com/news/215275-iran-australia-terrorist-ignore/
Iran says Australia ignored warnings about gunman - The Economic Times

Iranian intelligence had warned Aussie intelligence about this guy. (This seems similar to Russian intelligence warning American intelligence about the Tsarnaev brothers and American intelligence in all its wisdom "ignores" the intelligence provided @pmaitra )

Besides even an Austrailian Shia muslim leader had warned the Austrailian intelligence about this guy.

And this guy had a previous criminal record and therefore known to police.

In addition he appeared on the media after he sent hate mails to families of dead aussie service men.

And to top it all he supposedly made tweets like these

So YES

Something fishing in aussie intelligence not lifting a finger, in spite of all the warnings, or it could be just plain negligence and dereliction of duty.

And also what happened to the bombs ?
Nobody seemed very worried about those bombs after the attacker was killed.


==========

They didn't shot him throw the windows as they café was built to be a bank and had armoured glass windows.

A general question: Why is the cafe built to be a bank ? Do most cafe's there have "armored glass windows" ? Why is that ? Were there previous terror attacks/threats in that region ? Just trying to understand the rational behind a cafe having armored glass, coz afaik most cafe's don't have "armored glass windows."